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oh, hidden offensive? very well.
ok, you kinda showed us how fast group of 10 ewars killing 1 mech. oh and u even showed some difference. ok lets forget about you didn't showed other 6 ways. ok there are two ways to fix that imba - raise trojars or nerf intakt and cameleon. which one you will choose? and how it helps to that mech you killing in this example? cuz as long as i can see he is dead in any cases
No, you haven't understood... I Explain for the stupid: I communicate with people, instead of with beginners who enter into game rarely and play it is not enough. (\/)o_O(\/)
Troiars have low DPS, thats because they have long range and a advantage of not hitting low bumps.
I hope you don't continue a subject 1 on 1, and speak on a subject. Therefore I answer: Now it is a question of the due superiority of a class mechs over lights robots. That is I speak about situations when heavy and medium robots should have advantage in fire power and the armor. In numerous groups ew/light robots there is an advantage: If start to attack whom that, he can easy retire and even to distract fire on himself while the remaining continue to attack. Therefore here the concept "range" is inapplicable.
looks like you missed your own logic trying to insult me. let me show it to you
1) you said that group of intakts are main forces now. that means everyone uses them in pvp instead of mechs. (ok)
2) you disagreed about balance idea 1 vs 1 and thying to balance group vs 1. (ok)
3) you wrote some math that shows trojars are killing nuimquol mech 4 times slowly than others. (lolwut?)
4) trying to insult and not listen and calling devs
so your main idea was about nerfing intakts but you didn't showed exactly why. all your ideas are based on your own experience - look at m2s, the never use more than 1-2 e-wars now - 1 intakt and 1 cameleon usually. so all you did - you showed that trojars suck atm in pvp - agreed, but they have a diferent role, such as all other e-wars (just fyi). and yes, it's all because some time ago ppl said that pelistals are too OP - so rockets were nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and now we have what we have.
problem with e-wars is - not everyone uses them in theyr exact purpose (not ALL just not everyone). if that was your main idea - then you should say it different, not with all these dps calculations and insults.
Forgive me about my english. I hope DEVs will understand my point.
/ignore Line
i lol'd on your last sentence. however, i'm asking devs to pay attention to this topic - Hunter wrote so much words so they can't be unconvincing argument.
If the numbers are correct its worth investigating - Gargaj is a number freak eh? So let loose the Gargaj! 
Overall we have 2 different approaches: Hunter find some statistical values which might be an indicator for something - and other then that - EWs arent used as EWs but ast the fastest dpsers with the best defense.
Anyway - something needs a change there - making EWs dpser should make them slow and using them as EWs should make them fast without offensive, direct weapons.
Hunter - dont be mad - i think we just had the speech barrier cracking down on us.
I suppose its funny to read how russians fight on english forums.
What exactly is a "dps ewar" these days? One with 2 guns? Sure as hell nobody fitting damage tuners on them anymore...
Making solo mechs safe against full groups is not a good idea, people were for that concept at launch but it appears now the soloers are upset with how it ends up in practice. Ewar dps is already laughably low, you should see how long it takes me to kill a laird 1v1 in my ewar.
Also you talk a lot about NIC value not being equal between mechs and ewar. This is wrong in almost all cases, my mech is FAR cheaper than my ewar which are usually all t4 fitted to be able to compete, whereas many mechs are std fit.
I suppose its funny to read how russians fight on english forums.
No but we obviously just have a misunderstanding.
What exactly is a "dps ewar" these days? One with 2 guns? Sure as hell nobody fitting damage tuners on them anymore...
Making solo mechs safe against full groups is not a good idea, people were for that concept at launch but it appears now the soloers are upset with how it ends up in practice. Ewar dps is already laughably low, you should see how long it takes me to kill a laird 1v1 in my ewar.
Also you talk a lot about NIC value not being equal between mechs and ewar. This is wrong in almost all cases, my mech is FAR cheaper than my ewar which are usually all t4 fitted to be able to compete, whereas many mechs are std fit.
Tiggus - they have the gighest effective dps ingame! Why? Becasue they can apply it to their liking like no other bot can becasue of their speed.
It doesnt matter how long it takes to kill something if you succeed. EWs currently are the lolrouges of wow.
Tiggus - they have the gighest effective dps ingame! Why? Becasue they can apply it to their liking like no other bot can becasue of their speed.
It doesnt matter how long it takes to kill something if you succeed. EWs currently are the lolrouges of wow.
If this was true I could kill a mech or heavy mech 1v1 with my ewar. But I can't.
Forgive me about mistakes in calculations and thanx Tiggus for the advice. I've forgot that lew have 2 slots for weapons. Thats why DPS doubles and it will cause correction in all my future calculations. It's mean much bigger disbalance.
No problem, maybe you will get my troiar dps buffed.
result damage to anticlass (60% resist):
Trojar vs nuimcol = 4,4*2 weapon = 8,8
Intact vs pelistal = 8,736*2 weapon = 17,4
Chameleon vs thelodica= 7,28*2 weapon = 14,5
We take the mech in the armor ~ 4500HP with average regeneration 230 hp/10 sec (280/10sec for nuimcol).
As result:
Trojar vs nuimcol = 4500/ (88 - 280/10) = 75 sec
Intact vs pelistal = 4500 / (174 - 230/10) = 30 sec
Chameleon vs thelodica= 4500 / (145 - 230/10) = 36 sec
No Tiggus, that corelation doesnt work because 1 EW cant overcome the regen of mechs. If there would be no regen yes, any EW could solo mechs easily.
But the effect grows exponentially in groups whereas the regen of a single target doesnt grow and the defensive capabilities of a group of EW against a group of mechs doesnt get any smaller. Hide and run away - work against 1 or 10 mechs. But the offensive abilities of mechs dont grow becasue if they cant hit - 1 or 10 mechs wont do any dmg.
Offensive dps EWs simply are too fast. As a pure tackler or supressor the speed is ok.
I would like to see a Fraps of a Mech dying to (4 or less) light bots/EW, or even a tale from someone that had it happen to them and how.
I don't need to hear about how a mech couldn't kill (4) Light/EW because your never going to keep lock and/or keep them in range.
NOT Killing a Light/EW is not the same issue as being killed BY Light/EW. Lets not get them confused.
any EW could solo mechs easily.
I think you mean 'eventually', not easily.
result damage to anticlass (60% resist):
Trojar vs nuimcol = 4,4*2 weapon = 8,8
Intact vs pelistal = 8,736*2 weapon = 17,4
Chameleon vs thelodica= 7,28*2 weapon = 14,5We take the mech in the armor ~ 4500HP with average regeneration 230 hp/10 sec (280/10sec for nuimcol).
As result:
Trojar vs nuimcol = 4500/ (88 - 280/10) = 75 sec
Intact vs pelistal = 4500 / (174 - 230/10) = 30 sec
Chameleon vs thelodica= 4500 / (145 - 230/10) = 36 sec
Something looks wrong with this math.
If Intact does 17.4 DPS and Mech regens for 23 per sec, how does it ever kill the mech?
Even without regen 4500/17.4 is almost 4.5 minutes to kill.
(174-230/10) I think what you mean is 17.4 - (230/10) which would yeild the DPS - HPS (heals per second).
No Tiggus, that corelation doesnt work because 1 EW cant overcome the regen of mechs. If there would be no regen yes, any EW could solo mechs easily.
But the effect grows exponentially in groups whereas the regen of a single target doesnt grow and the defensive capabilities of a group of EW against a group of mechs doesnt get any smaller. Hide and run away - work against 1 or 10 mechs. But the offensive abilities of mechs dont grow becasue if they cant hit - 1 or 10 mechs wont do any dmg.
Offensive dps EWs simply are too fast. As a pure tackler or supressor the speed is ok.
I'm willing to test and fraps this with you, my 10 mechs against your 10 ewar, just let me know when you want to do it.
You dont need test - its a statistical value that persists through a lot of fights. EWs can evade anything they want.
Its the EZ mode class in this game. Unfortunaltely - some people dont like it and refuse to use them. Otherwise you wouldnt see any mechs at roamings.
BTW id didnt say 10 EWs win against 10 mechs easily
But EWs effective dps is gigger then the ones of mechs due to their defenseive/offensive abilities - that combined with their low costs (it doesnt really matter if you personally fit you EW t4 and your mech t1) and their versatility - makes them pick of the year.
You dont need rocket science for that.
But then again - if the EWs kite the mechs - theyll pick em 1 by 1.
dps = (K + T + S + C) * W * D * CRIT / t
For check of utility of the absolute resistance offered by me it is necessary to change the formula:
dmg = K*W*D + T*W*D + S*W*D + C*W*D
Value of dispersion we take 1:
dmg = K*W + T*W + S*W + C*W
Absolute resistance should be subtracted from results of calculations of relative resistance:
dmg = K*W + T*W + S*W + C*W
I suggest to conduct calculations for profile type of damage against an anticlass:
dmg = pda*W * RR - AR
pda – profile damage ammo value (your)
Weapon coefficient
W = wdb/100
wdb - weapon damage bonuce (your)
RR – relative resist
RR = 1 – rp/(rp+100)
rp – resist points (enemy)
AR – absolute resist
AR = (rp*resist_rate) / (rp+100) * rl
rl - robot level:
light/ew = 0;
ew-mech = 1;
assault/mech = 2;
heavy mech = 3;
resist_rate: I consider that "absolute resistance" should be skill for which experience points are necessary. Each level of skill should increase a resistance rating on 1. => resist_rate = 1..10
Let's pass to concrete calculations:
result damage to anticlass (60% resist):
profile damage ammo value:
missiles = 35 (HEAT IX)
lasers = 26 (volcano)
magnet = 26 (UDC)
Weapon coefficient:
missiles ~ 1,5
lasers ~ 2
magnet ~ 3
Relative resist vs anticlass:
rp = 150
RR = 1-150/(150+100) = 0,4
Absolute resist vs anticlass (resist_rate=10max)
AR = (150*10)/(150+100)*rl=6*rl
light/ew = 0;
ew-mech = 6;
assault/mech = 12;
heavy mech = 18;
As a result it is received:
Trojar vs nuimcol = 35*1,5*0,4-AR = 21-AR
Intact vs pelistal = 26*2*0,4-AR = 20,8 - AR
Chameleon vs thelodica= 26*3*0,4-AR = 31,2-AR
Trojar vs Kain = 21-12 = 9
Intact vs Tyranos = 20,8 – 12 = 7,2
Cameleon vs Artemis = 31,2-12 = 19,2 (????)
Trojar vs Mesmer = 21-18 = 3
Intact vs Gropho = 20,8 – 18 = 2,8
Cameleon vs Set = 31,2-18 = 13,2 (????)
Hunter trying to show 1 mech vs 10 ewars, and by his calculations, mech is just staying and regenerating. thats a little...incorrect. just keep in mind that usualy mech is able to kill 1 intakt in about 10-15 seconds - that means it will be 10, then 9, then 8 etc so time will be raised. another thing - Hunter thinks that mech is using 1 middle armor-repair only. thats incorrect too cuz they can be fitted with 2 small or 1 small and 1 medium etc. also nuimquols have a bonus to armor repair that can't be ignored.
oh and in his maths ap doesn't count in any ways. so its very very single situation that can't be used as base to balance.
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