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Re: Anti-Blob Mechanics Since the Feb 4th patch

Ekim wrote:
Redline wrote:

Sandbox mmos have several system inherent ideas - like having to prevail with the tools one has got in that coherent world - that sandbox wants to be. Consequences are a key element - possibly not prevailing in that world also - instances cripple that.

In fact consequences and political system as well as goodies are missing. Things get boring when you can do what you wanna do - sounds contradicting to games? Not at all - its the key element.


see i hear this type of thing all the time followed by the obligatory " go back to wow lol"
and i cant find  how adding another place to have some pvp without having to go look for it and only finding some miners or a blob is taking anything away from this game
I wager it will bring way more to the game than it takes away from it, for starters there are many people playing perpetuum who have never pvp'd and if they have some easy pickup fights they might find they enjoy that aspect of the game and get involved in the " real game"

you say consequences like an arena instance system cant have them it could also  -gasp-
have rewards too!
things get boring when you cant do what you want to to as well in a "sandbox"game


so any way back to this whole topic has a separate thread now so back to what ever the hell this thread is about

The issue is preventing the advantage of a larger group over the smaller group.. its a endless infinity and cant be solved.. Nature has no fix for this other then extinction ( over population) or self destruction (large stars/black holes). the concept echo's into something virtual like Video games as well,.. Its silly to think just cus the game is a virtual creation that some coding could solve this natural effect.   

Adding an instance will make the problem finite sure, but its not a solution. its a fundamental change to the system and not part of the elusive sandbox people are looking for. So if someone says go back to some other game,. its short sighted,. But,.! if your looking for a fair and level esport,. They might be right.

Still a interesting topic to read about.

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Re: Anti-Blob Mechanics Since the Feb 4th patch

somehow i miss the reason why the devs need to fix the "blob" issue anyway.
instead of punishing mass encounters they should start to optimize them.

in RTS games with Stone-paper-scissor system, they don't debuff the zergswarm, but implement units/weapons that are more effective against those masses, but far less effective against single targets.

game mechanics like "this unit can tank against huge burst damage, but is prone to rapid fire" and the opposite are completely missing in perpetuum.

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Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
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Re: Anti-Blob Mechanics Since the Feb 4th patch

There is also the yet to be implemented AOE damage when your bot blows up as well as artillary which should also cause AOE damage; and suicide bots.

The changes aren't to stop large scale encounters, just to stop them from all standing in the same area; which is how I describe blob.

I think the term is now however being used for ANY overwhelming use of force, which I don't think is appropriate. Its is totally possible to have a large army being controlled by squad and not be a unthinking blob of bots.

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Re: Anti-Blob Mechanics Since the Feb 4th patch

bots blowing up and cause AOE damage around may be great. what about artillery - at first look it seems very cool but then...just imagine a blob of artillery units devastating everything around. such things should be prevented somehow

Have a productive day, Runner
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Re: Anti-Blob Mechanics Since the Feb 4th patch

Did nobody watch 300? The basic idea is that there should be choke points, bottlenecks. This has been true throughout history when facing a larger number of opponents. The fix is simple: Hit detection. Default surface hit size should keep bots from crowding in. Interference has been a failure idea since I learned of it. If anything, combined interference should decrease masking and signal detection (WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU, SAY THAT AGAIN?), which is also in dire need of fixing since stealth is about getting within deadly range without detection (even the best fitted ewars can't get closer than 500m of a dopey Argano, let alone someone fitted for detection). There should be buildable walls and choke points. You can already plant stuff and the landscape is tile-based. Bots have a surface radius.

tl;dr Planting walls on tiles + bots that collide + Xerxes = Fun new game mechanic x300

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Re: Anti-Blob Mechanics Since the Feb 4th patch

Contructable walls can be easily exploited or are useless if there are creation regulations - clientside hitdetection wont happen - serverside is quiet some load. prolly in some years.

32 Reply by Tripskate (edited by Tripskate 2011-02-22 09:11:12)

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Re: Anti-Blob Mechanics Since the Feb 4th patch

Redline wrote:

Contructable walls can be easily exploited or are useless if there are creation regulations - clientside hitdetection wont happen - serverside is quiet some load. prolly in some years.

There's no possible way that hit detection between two radii is server intensive, considering that if you press L you'll see something more complicated that the server calculates all the time. Hell, your landmark display calculates the distance between multiple things. Just add the two sizes and restrict distance between them to that. Calculations beyond 76 m only need to be once per second anyway, since you can't travel more than 30m/s(108kph) (30+30+8+8=76), which again would decrease server load etc. Don't need to be a coding genius to implement the most basic collision detection.

And while I agree on walls seeming useless, there does need to be a means to bottleneck somewhere. Any castle, any defensible outpost has a means to stem the flow of enemies.

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Re: Anti-Blob Mechanics Since the Feb 4th patch

Your entiteled to your opinion - but it still is - espescially in groups the calculations explode tongue have you taken a look at the network protocol and the encryption/decryption scheme and the current network overhead?

Collision with terrain btw is clientside atm and im sure it will stayone of the few clientside things.

And furthermore - collision between bots is aswell easily exploitable.

34 Reply by Jita (edited by Jita 2011-02-22 10:28:10)

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Re: Anti-Blob Mechanics Since the Feb 4th patch

The only mechanic that I can think of that would help with this is los that includes players and npc's bots and mechs and in addition friendly fire. In order to fire effectively you'd need to have a formation or line of some sort and with effective evasion and the good use of what ground you fight on you could make it very difficult for a large number of people to get decent los.

On alpha islands i would make the los shut down each gun if it would fire on someone and on beta it would just fire and therefore cause damage potentially to friendlies.

50 people should not be able to fire through each other on the same square.

In addition to this I would like to see signal detection and masking HEAVILY effected by this. A group of 10 ew for instance should be visable at 2km base.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: Anti-Blob Mechanics Since the Feb 4th patch

Jita wrote:

On alpha islands i would make the los shut down each gun if it would fire on someone and on beta it would just fire and therefore cause damage potentially to friendlies.

on alpha islands it will become too exploitable. just, you know, running around, don't let someone farm for teh lulz or interrupt advantage

Have a productive day, Runner
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Re: Anti-Blob Mechanics Since the Feb 4th patch

Line wrote:
Jita wrote:

On alpha islands i would make the los shut down each gun if it would fire on someone and on beta it would just fire and therefore cause damage potentially to friendlies.

on alpha islands it will become too exploitable. just, you know, running around, don't let someone farm for teh lulz or interrupt advantage

they can do that already with tagging, dont see the difference really.

I suppose if it became an issue they could make it without a cycle loss so that it just did not fire.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: Anti-Blob Mechanics Since the Feb 4th patch

in other case, if the ppl will learn not to use blobs from teh start - it will be even greater big_smile

Have a productive day, Runner