26 (edited by Dont do a weed 2011-01-25 09:07:59)

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Line wrote:

Doesn't it will be like:

Sequer: oh, betas are now accessible for all! i have shields, and i can do that.
(long time travelling)
Sequer: oh noes! intakt ewar group! damnet i've wasted so many time for nothing and lost everything i had. NO FUKEEN BETAS ANYMORE! (probably leaves the game)

So with that big mass idea betas will be for pvp-only - cuz i don't think anyone will be able to reach something even on fast sequer when there are faster ewars roaming around. No more sequers...how sad! And PvE corps (even they somehow build theyr POS) will dockup immediatly, and after some days of sitting in terminal because someone camping them, will leave betas/game too.

Still, I like this idea. but islands should be a goddamnet large. In other cases, things will be almost the same.


so you're saying that an unescorted hauling robot will get shot at and quit the game for going into the betas?

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

nope, it's not about it.

more landmass = more travel distance and as a result - more risk and danger. those ppl who sit on alpha now will be even more unable to get on beta unless, say, mission rewards or kernel prices will be increased proportionally.

it's not enough to give small corps without alliances an acces to betas - they have it now (yes, it's possible on each island to pass through gate-watchers). they should have some very good reason to use that access.

i think they should get that reason. how long you can play sitting on alpha only?

Have a productive day, Runner

28 (edited by Seridur 2011-01-25 15:10:05)

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

We need more landmass, right now the game too much locked for many people. Make a huge new island or if that's a problem for the engine then many smaller connected islands. Put valuable resources on them but not abundantly. (rare plants growing at random locations, rare mobs dropping something which needed for top gear etc). If these things are not abundant then peole would have to search for them and it may be more efficinent in small squads instead of  mining next to an outpost while having "eyes" on all the teleports.
The game world must be big so ppl outside from an alliance could leave non-pvp islands.
Sure, the gates to these big island(s) still could be camped, but the land would be too big for one alliance to control, if you somehow survive the campers, you have much better chance to get in and out alive. Right now adventurers have around zero cahnce to do anything on beta islands (talking about experince on Norhoop, but I guess the other islands are the same)

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Line wrote:

nope, it's not about it.

more landmass = more travel distance and as a result - more risk and danger. those ppl who sit on alpha now will be even more unable to get on beta unless, say, mission rewards or kernel prices will be increased proportionally.

it's not enough to give small corps without alliances an acces to betas - they have it now (yes, it's possible on each island to pass through gate-watchers). they should have some very good reason to use that access.

i think they should get that reason. how long you can play sitting on alpha only?

if you increase kernel prices then you cause inflation.

If you have people with limited access to betas because they run solo getting more money from kernels then what do you think people with constant beta access are doing?

smaller landmass it takes people shorter times to find you and shorter times to get somewhere

bigger landmasses means it takes longer to find you and longer to get somewhere.

Nothing changes except for travel time

30 (edited by Seridur 2011-01-25 18:28:55)

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

If it takes long to find you then they may give up. Being able to hide is important in these kind of games

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Esp. since fight are decided at the moment you undock and have a fixed equipment and groupm setup. If you get scouted - the attacker will have an answer be it a countersetup or just numbers.

If youd have means of hiding from radar (shutting down engines) you actually could create traps or dissappear to a certain extent.

More landmass and more transitions.

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

your points are understandable but I'm talking about the guy who's point is that a bigger landmass means unescorted sequers who carry all their eggs in one basket will get shot and quit the game.

I'm saying that will already happen regardless of landmass size because when it comes down to it a sequer that is hauling to a station has to go to a station or teleporter and will be spotted in the 1000m radar radius and will not outrun a semi-competent ewar, light, or assault.

And under current game mechanics the only way to hide is to do a safe logout and wait 2minutes in which is plenty of time to be found out.

My point is escort your damn sequer

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

They are not escorting them now, they will not in future. More travel distance - more chances for encounter.

Have a productive day, Runner

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

dumb people will remain dumb that will not change no matter island size if they don't escort they will pay the price regardless if the quit this isn't the game for them.

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

indeed, but all this island enlargement is about getting moar ppl on betas, don't it?

Have a productive day, Runner

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

More size, more chances that blob alliances controlling 1/3rd of the PvP world will fall apart as greed takes over and everyone wants a bit.

Or maybe not?

Smart sequer pilots with no corp will hire mercs for protection if there's more chance to get caught. wink

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

They just need to add delta and gamma islands. Make beta like alpha(no pvp). Add bonuses to mining on delta and gamma of 10 and 20% more mined and make the nodes practically endless. Delta should have times that pvp is allowed (like only during intrusion or 4 hours a day at peak population times) and times that it isn't. Gamma should be full pvp all the time. That way people can settle around the kind of game they want and keep everyone happy. Want mechs and don't want pvp? enjoy alpha and beta. Want controlled pvp? enjoy delta. Want full pvp? enjoy gamma.

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

why would anyone risk losing a ship for a 10 - 20% increase vs the rewards of a low risk moderate return of investment on no / scheduled pvp islands?

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

  • Add Gamma Islands

  • Add security system whereby attacking players on beta island who are not PVP flagged with result in a negative effect

  • Rebalance weapons, robots and robots speeds to make more sense.

  • Alpha mining fields should be much larger but at least twice as shallow meaning that newbies will be almost unaffected but older players will struggle more and be forced to either have less return or moved to a beta+ island or further away.

  • Add travel paths. These can be calculated by number of unique times a tile is travelled over against the total number of times a tile is travelled over.

  • Cloaking/Radar masking for the cost of AP. Lower the range as which your robot can be seen on the radar and another module to increase the distance you can detect other robots on the radar.

The Game

40 (edited by Purgatory 2011-01-30 19:55:48)

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

I'm surpised it took people this long to call for new landmass, I said long ago that this game badly needs more landmass by time it launches else the population will suffer.

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

the islans will be much bigger once they reduce the radar range (next patch) and reduce the max speed of dps-dealing robots to even/balanced levels.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

They're reducing the max speed of dps robots? light EW bots are already basically given a free pass unless they're facing another light EW bot, and even then they can just run and run. I thinking light EW bots need a speed nerf if anything.

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

please reflect what i wrote, combine it with your knowledge and alexanders post in the "nerf ewar speed topic"....

light ewar bots are not used for ewar... they can deal dps (even that it is low, its sums up with the mass) and run fast.

i dunno why the other devs talked Alf out of the "nerf ewar-speed" and increase the other bots base speed instead.
During the whole beta , the argument was - no higher speed as it will make the islands even smaller then they are now.

And its all for the sake of so-called roaming gangs beeing able to kill mining bots.

alongside came:
- logoff restrictions
(argument: a losing blob would just log off during a battle, minimizing losses - EvE tactic)
- mobile teleporter restrictions, rendering them almost useless for anything.
- PvP flag mechanics
- Teleport-lock (molecular instability)

just run around an alpha island with a non-lwf fitted assault or mech, and you will see how big those islands are if your speed is down to 40-60 kph, instead of 80-130 kph.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

The solution is to create an island with ONLY NPC Stations.
The resources should be poorer than current Beta islands but better than Alpha.
Call it Beta Lite island.
Then all the tiny player corps can base there and have adventures.
It should be huge and linked to all the alpha and beta islands and have loads of teleports all around so it is uncampable.
Resources should move around randomly every few days on the island.

As Jita said in another thread, the roaming PVP in EVE is found in the NPC station regions.
Ergo, create a similar environment to encourage more roaming PVP and also some high-risk industrial activities.

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Yeah i proposed something similar in my pve/pve/trading interconnection idea. pvp should be influenced by a small political system on this island to polarizepopulation and to increase dynamics between players and their player decisions.

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

A easier fix for the map problem would be to make the corner of the map a teleport to a straight line on the other map.

See the screenshot (the green lines and dot). Ths idea is if you go to a corner of the map and continue to walk on the direction of another island, it teleport you on the other island in a straight line.

It would not request to restart all the maps creation. Just need to create a kind of hidden random generated teleport which should be one of the easiest solution imho.

See idea here : http://img19.imageshack.us/i/maplx.png/

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Speed is a big issue in this game due to the fact there is one travel mechanic and the fastest player in the group is always the most important.

Speed did reduce the size of the islands and it's an issue but what about when you want to travel and not PVP? Honestly I'd like to see LWF give a much greater speed bonus but remove a lot more health or effect targeting in some way.

Light ewar robots should never have had a DPS opportunity but due to balancing they're about to easily equip three T4 weapon tunings and a T4 Amp. 107 KPH DPS Intakt is greater in almost every way than a 95 KPH Suppressing Intakt.

A Zenith out ewars a light ewar robot easily but the massively reduced speed means they're only used in engagements of which most rights only last a few minutes once they've started the res tof the 45 minutes is spent dancing around trying to see who makes a mistake first.

Speed is not the balance issue really. The lack there of other travel options, fitting balances (Why does every robot has 2 set-ups that are optional and sometimes three? Where is the choice?) and the lack of players/conflict worthy locations.

Stealth is only going to make it easier for the alpha island dwellers to infiltrate enemy islands. It's not going to cause any more conflicts.


Best option? Take an entire alliance. Move the industry to Alpha islands, ninja mine anything you need (Which is very little) and then move all your combat players to the heart of the enemy. That way once there are 5 or more of you online, get ready and deploy. In a week the enemy will be sick of having to keep 10 people on guard at all times that they'll either leave, have their players leave and crumble or just out right give up and Q.Q on the forums about how it's unfair.

The Game

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

- 1 probleme --> nothing against ewar speed
- 1 solution --> medium démobilizer (250m of range)

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Hummer wrote:

- 1 probleme --> nothing against ewar speed
- 1 solution --> medium démobilizer (250m of range)

i would say low range.... the medium demob module should have a more effective demob, but a lesser range, so light-bots demob be still usefull.

Re: Beta Islands, PVP, and Alliances - get rid of the islands

Alexander wrote:

the game has stagnated, become boring, lacks flare. I don't care what happens until we can build something with our own team effort. Be it a small outpost or a giga-mega-cyber-castle.

/this

Player created/maintained structures would be the perfect injection into the game right now.

You take over an outpost at the moment, it really means NOTHING outside of a label changing in ownership.

You take over an outpost with the ability to build a gate around it 2-3 days later with a password protected door = totally different game.
big_smile