26 (edited by Euphoric 2011-01-06 05:42:24)

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

Artem Blue wrote:

Ember was suspicious that I might be up to some espionage goal.

This. Also, I have zero interest in dealing with you, Artem, as a third party in any deal. I have no desire to deal with your OCD related to instituting a complicated financial system in a game that doesn't have 1/100th the population to flesh one out.


Artem Blue wrote:

1. It's a remote possibility that the entire IRS corp could be one person or a small number of tightly-knit people.

We have 130+ members, are you serious? Please stop derailing my thread. I like M2S, trolls with skill, not idiocy.



TLDR, butt out.

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

Ember wrote:

M2S trolls hard around the clock

Your damn right I'm hard around the clock. Wait... how did you know that?

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

In accordance to Euphoric / Doctor Strangelove's request, I'm withdrawing my offer.

In general, operating in public/transparently is easier for honest individuals than it is for scammers - for example, it cuts into a scammer's profits if they can only do the scam once and then are blacklisted - so I think this insistence on pairwise / "confidential" deals is some evidence against IRS's honesty.

Sigh.

29 (edited by Doctor Strangelove 2011-01-06 17:46:19)

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

Thanks for getting the last word in. Just because I don't like your public bond forum idea back by kernels doesn't mean I'm a cheat :-/.

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

Thanks for getting the last word in. Just because I don't like your public bond forum idea back by kernels doesn't mean I'm a cheat :-/.

Who got the last word in?

->You just lost The Game<-

31 (edited by Euphoric 2011-01-06 20:08:49)

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

Very perceptive. Nothing gets past you :-).



Edit: You do.

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

Euphoric wrote:

Very perceptive. Nothing gets past you :-).

Huh?

->You just lost The Game<-

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

Artem Blue wrote:

In the spirit of due diligence, I looked up all the referenced characters on this forum and in-game, and spoke to Ember a bit in-game.

......

5. Ember was not able to cut and paste the corp bulletin announcing this internal investment possibility from the corp bulletin when I asked. Being able to do something like that promptly when surprised is something that an honest individual could do, but a dishonest individual could not (hard to make up such an elaborate deceptive document fast enough) - it would be strong evidence of honesty. The fact that Ember couldn't is therefore weak evidence against honesty; however, there are good alternative explanations, like that there might be sensitive information in that post, or that Ember was suspicious that I might be up to some espionage goal.

..........

Risks I can see:
1. It's a remote possibility that the entire IRS corp could be one person or a small number of tightly-knit people.
2. It's a possibility that Euphoric / Doctor Strangelove has been running a Ponzi / pyramid scheme inside his own corp and now wants to expand beyond it.
3. It's a possibility (from your perspective) that I'm the same person, or closely associated with, Euphoric / Doctor Strangelove / IRS and am working to boost your confidence and increase the yield of the scam.

This is my first time reading the thread since my conversation with Artem and just thought I might clarify a few points, but first let me say that I appreciate the time and effort that Artem has put into attempting to Audit/Investigate what I believe is Perpetuum's first investment offering.  I full well understand the potential pitfalls of investing in unregulated unaudited vehicles let alone anything secured by nothing more than an internet reputation.  There are risks involved, no one has implied otherwise, and I think Euphoric and Artem have disclosed and hashed out most of the obvious ones.

When Artem PM'd me I was still aggrivated by what I judge to be relentless forum trolling by M2S.

- "Equal opportunity forum troll" from Neoxx's signature (since changed)

Another M2S member proudly identifying themselves as a troll
- http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … rn/page/3/

Speaks for itself... Dev Zoom threatens banning... trolling continues elsewhere
- http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -trolling/

Other forum users commenting on M2S trolling
- http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -subforum/

After opening the conversation by asking for a list of alts within the corp Artem identified himself as a potential investor and I made it immediately clear that as an IRS member my word held little weight in the matter.   I further added that IMO the investment is legitimate and that if it's not the entire corp is "screwed". 

I further disclosed that I am not invested, many members are, but that similiar investments had been available since I joined the corp and that I had invested in earlier rounds. As Euphoric disclosed their are currently more profitable oppotunities for industrial characters that have not yet reached a point of diminishing returns.

Artem continuued to ask sensative questions about the number of corp members online, identities of officers, etc.  My answers were admitably stand offish.  When asked to cut and paste to chatbox, the wall of text that is the corps investment thread I assumed that Artem wanted more information and I began to recap the investment features, as well as describe my impression of the IRS business model, it's sustainability and the capitolistic nature of the corps inner workings.  Artem did not broach the subject of cutting and pasting from the corp bulletin a second time, thus indicating that his questions had been answered. As I mentioned above their are similiar investments avaiblable within the corp, perhaps I should have used and stressed the word IDENTICAL so as not to cast a shadow upon my character.

In truth Artem first set the stage for my suspicions of fowl play by initiating the conversation with questions about alts within the corp.  Then Artem invented an elaborate "test" of my honesty.  Selectively interpreted the results as indicative of my character. Then posted the interpretation miss-using words like "able" and "couldn't" as supposed evidence.  Their are many fallacies in Artems logic the most prominent of which is called denying the anticedent. The fact that God has not revealed himself through hard evidence proves nothing about his existence one way or the other despite whatever you may or may not want to believe.  Not cutting and pasting internal information upon request bears no reflection upon my honesty or this invesment.... a lack of evidence is only evidence in your imagintaion.

As I said I appreciate Artem's efforts in attempting to investigate/audit this investment opportunity, an impossible task at best.  He performed a fair amount of research, tried to present a balanced opinion and multiple interpretations.  But to sum it up, unknown people on the internet want to take your pretend money.  It's Risky. However, the risk is partially mitigated by the virtual nature of the pretend money and a low minimum investment.  For what it's worth (not much), I fully believe this opportunity to be legitimate and would be more concerned with rate risk.  However, if your a combat only player with no sources of passive income this might be a good thing for you. Or better yet, if your combat oriented we're recruting, join our corp "IRS" and invest from within.

"You're living in a parallel universe." ~Syndic

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

Wait, I still don't see where M2S hurting your feelings comes into play in that huge wall of text.

And M2S is equal opportunity in their trolling. They even troll each other from time to time. If you don't want to get trolled, don't get them opportunities wink

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

CoyoteTheClever wrote:

Wait, I still don't see where M2S hurting your feelings comes into play in that huge wall of text.

And M2S is equal opportunity in their trolling. They even troll each other from time to time. If you don't want to get trolled, don't get them opportunities wink

Two ways -
1) I allowed myself to become aggravated prior to being contacted by Artem, which most likely impacted my willingness to be helpful
2) It caste a shadow of doubt upon Artem's motivations for contacting me, was he being sincere or just carrying the forum trolling into the game.

I'm not opposed to the occasional troll post, but the constant and unmoderated trolling of one particular clic has become an assault on the forums and community.  This thread is just one of many that has been trolled so far off topic that it should be closed/deleted and the original OP moved. 

Follow the links above, the fact that one particular clic has proudly built a culture based in part on disruptive griefing has been noted not just by myself but has a thread dedicated to it. The ban stick has been threatened by Dev Zoom but I'm doubtful that it will be used.  I haven't seen this much concentrated trolling since DFO (DarkFail Online). These forums need more active moderation for a community to form, one that attracts subs rather than chases them away IMO.

Anyway, I like many others will probably confine myself to corp/alliance chat in the end.
Trolls win. I lose, community losses, Avatar Creations losses

"You're living in a parallel universe." ~Syndic

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

I have had zero takers outside of IRS. This is not surprising. I will continue to make this service available to anyone who may stumble across this post, however.

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

I have never felt more accomplished than when i read that post.

->You just lost The Game<-

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

I'm honored, truly. :-) I attribute it to general lack of trust in this game stemming from EVE scams (justified) and lack of activity on the forums. :-x

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

That and the fact that people dont have tons of NIC lying around to risk on various money making schemes.  Someone would be much more apt to invest 5mil in something like this if he had 100mil in his wallet most of the time.  We just havnt progressed that far in the game yet.

->You just lost The Game<-

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

That makes sense to me. I was hoping to get started on a references list but I shall have to wait until someone is feeling the clink of NIC and the possibilities. I'll keep this open for when that time comes and maybe if I have a greater need for investors later I will offer a bonus interest rate for the bravest souls.

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

First outside investment has been taken and now returned.

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

Yep, Euphoric paid out on a 1m/10%/10days.

Re: Earn NIC, Invest in IRS

It's not a scam, the guy just knows how to make money with money.  I'd never offer such a deal just cause I don't have the patience for the book keeping, nor the desire to industry.  So, from a casual player, I thought it was an innovative idea and one of the reasons I joined IRS.