Topic: Territorial warfare

As for gameplay experience this will be the biggest challenge for devs to implement. Chances of implementing it right are slim to none.

What goals can be defined in ordered to conquer territory?
Shooting stuff?
So you destroy a defensive structure and when it's kaputt or inactive you shoot the people who are inside. They die, you win, ladieda.

So more firepower will mean more chance of success. The good old numbers game.
How many number the field can take? 100, 1000, 10000?

Should you cap the numbers deployed on the field to find out that spies know about your op and gets countered by mass logging in players and their alts?

Or just mass logging in and crash the server and when it comes up know how to log in faster and shoot all your enemies logging in down one by one?

Add delays of a few hours so in order to conquer ground you and your friends have to wake up in the middle of the night to attack or defend?

Infiltrate and turn off the defenses and let it turn into a turkey shoot?

Just one single suggestion.
Be absolutely sure whatever you come up with is tried, tested and most of all not absolutely horrible for the players to work with.

Re: Territorial warfare

The Devs probably haven't gotten too much set in stone yet but the best idea is to wait and see what they do. I assume it will involve constructions and such but according to a Dev we won't be seeing those for sometime.
It's like asking for more details on Destoryers, you'll get the same answer.

This is a closed beta, anything added will be tested in-house (Which makes it work) and then we help balance it. Suggestions are great but there are more than one day to skin a cat and speaking from a business point of view employees that get to work on their own product are more motivated to complete it. Thus letting someone else (A Dev) make the ground work is usually a better idea for their moral/love for the project.

big_smile

That said Territory control will be fun. I hope involves building mini-towers (Low power and destroyable) but it might be as simple as outpost control. There are lots of methods to control territory. A more Real Life example would be to kill/push out the leader. Power struggles are bloody and brutal.

Re: Territorial warfare

Someone had mentioned that territory control would be RTS-like, so I'm guessing we'd build different structures for different functions with a main terminal/base to dock up in.

Maybe those exterior buildings would be used to upgrade the various functions within the main terminal, such as mass production factory, prototyping, refining, recycling, repairing, etc.  The better structures you have, the higher level it gets (up to level 3 it seems?)

I would obviously imagine that the main terminal has super high HP and would be extremely diffilcult to distroy, if not impossible.  Since you'd have to factor in that all of the materials inside of said terminal would also get destroyed, it would have to be near bloody insane to destroy it.

I cant wait for this....

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Re: Territorial warfare

So how much time you think you would like to spend on conquering such a structure?
minutes, hours,days, weeks, months, years?

Re: Territorial warfare

This is a cut and paste from the Help channel yesterday and it sheds a little light on what is coming next:

[19:46:01] <DEV BoyC> Halsoy when we have a vid we'll upload it, but it might take a few weeks, we're in the middle of preparing for the next patch
[19:47:15] <DEV BoyC> if i'm not mistaken we'll put out the siege system
[19:48:06] <DEV BoyC> we realize that people want some incentive to go to pvp
[19:48:28] <DEV BoyC> so we try to give them just that in the easiest fashion we can currently implement
[19:49:11] <DEV BoyC> it's a system that will let players fight for ownership of beta island outposts
[19:51:15] <DEV BoyC> for now it's just a simple system to determine ownership of an outpost so you guys have something to pvp over
[19:51:29] <DEV BoyC> it's nothing like the real territory control we have in mind for later

Re: Territorial warfare

Making a study out of it? That's nice. It's a good start.

Re: Territorial warfare

huh.... I guess that'll be fun.  People will most likely stick to the Beta terminals most of the time anyway, and just go try to control the outposts for *** and giggles.

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Re: Territorial warfare

Neoxx wrote:

huh.... I guess that'll be fun.  People will most likely stick to the Beta terminals most of the time anyway, and just go try to control the outposts for *** and giggles.

I giggle a lot, don't ask me what I'm doing when not giggling...

Re: Territorial warfare

So in short you guys have no clue whatsoever what to expect?

Just askin.

Re: Territorial warfare

hope there will be a GOOD reason to hold them right away, rather then bragging rights and a way to defend them

Grow up or die

Re: Territorial warfare

Make them upgradeable and it's worth every penny to try and hold them. Also a roaming gang shouldn't be able to take them back over in a short 20 minute raid unless they're just for epeens and then who cares about outposts? No benefits, no reason.

Re: Territorial warfare

Since theres police towers and resources/spawns inside said police zones, the only bonus will be nearby spawns that are highly fought over so you can have a place close by to store your items.

What will happen when an outpost changes owners?  Will only that corp be able to dock there?  What will happen to everyone else's stuff when that happens?

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Re: Territorial warfare

Loving the rhetorical questions on a system we know nothing about. Good job! <3

Re: Territorial warfare

almost like people who answer questions without knowing jack *** about what the devs really think roll

Re: Territorial warfare

Quotidian Grind wrote:

almost like people who answer questions without knowing jack *** about what the devs really think roll

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Re: Territorial warfare

Just posing questions that maybe will make an anxious dev answer it tongue

I know you want to tell us, Zoom.....

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Re: Territorial warfare

I really expected to see people not needing options of a dev about this in order to be able to vision how this could work. Yes we don't know what they come up with. But I gave a few examples about how it shouldn't work because it didn't work for stEve. And it still doesn't work in stEve at current date and they have come up with yet another broken version of it.

Large scale battles and territorial warfare is extremely tricky because they tend to end in who brings in the most weapons wins. Most likely you're now fine with that but after a few times you probably start to realize that there will be one or two large groups that can dominate the entire game.

Re: Territorial warfare

I do sometimes wonder if Faxeir just copy-pastes from coad.

Not all games are eve. Just because this game shares some basic element ideas does not make this eve. Or will determine how it will end. I can think of several other mmo games that had excellent functioning territory control systems, that worked just fine without escalations of a few large groups that dominate the whole game.

I think dev imput here would be much more accurate than yours smile

<Kwitch> I tried to RE Epriton. The game lol'd @ me.
<Siddy> i hope your brains go enouhght processing poweres to realise the problem
<Socrates> ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα / "The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing"

Re: Territorial warfare

Not copy paste from COAD but merely inspired by it. People might not like it but it stimulates them to come up with with arguments why I am so wrong. Besides COAD will happen here as well because of human nature. This is just a preview of it.

This game comes very close to stEve so I wouldn't like if territorial warfare came close as well. I rather stir up the people/devs here about this before its too late and I won't be bothered to get an account.

As to the numbers game. I haven't seen mechanisms to avoid this so you'll end up with it anyway I'm afraid. I sincerely hope I'm wrong on this though.

Re: Territorial warfare

It doesnt take much to come up with arguments of why you are so wrong.

You also seem to think of yourself as the ghost of forum future..... lol.

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Re: Territorial warfare

You'll get to know the details in due time, don't worry. For now it's not even finished fully, so things can still change.

What I can answer though is:
1. Only outposts on PvP zones will be involved (currently 9).
2. Everyone will be able to enter occupied outposts all the time.
3. A corporation owning an outpost will receive a certain percent of the facilities' income (taxes, fees etc). Of course this effectively also means that the owner is using the facilities at a greatly reduced price.

Proceed with the speculations lol

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -- Bill Cosby

Re: Territorial warfare

Thank you for the info Zoom. I know it's far from final, but I just want to point out a few "potential" problems you may have overlooked with what is mentioned.

1. Main terminals offer vastly improved services over outposts, so the cost reduction (Even a somewhat large one) would still not make them better than main terminals.

2. The money the outpost would make from other player transactions on the outpost would be negligible due to hardly anyone ever using outposts, especially an enemy outpost or at least outpost controlled by another corporation.

3. The allowing of anyone to dock in the outpost will cause even more docking games with attackers. I believe this is a bad idea fundamentally. But I do understand it in the sense that the missions sometimes require you to dock in them. Not that these missions won't already be screwed up by said outposts being controlled by players wanting to shoot those doing the missions.

Again these are "potential" problems based off just what was mentioned by Zoom, for those with low reading skills, and/or mental issues. (Of which there is always a few on every forum.)

Re: Territorial warfare

Ah yes, I forgot to mention an important fact regarding your point 3:
you won't have to attack the outposts itself, but separate structures further away from the outpost.

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." -- Bill Cosby

Re: Territorial warfare

The design seems to be sensible. I'm really anxious for the details.

Re: Territorial warfare

I would recommend (if you haven't already) to do some research on steve and "station ping pong".  This was before my time, but when EVE launched they had a similar mechanism that resulted in frequent ownership changes (thus ping pong) and it was so frustrating that it led to the current tower and "hard point" based sov - which has created its own separate issue of requiring 1000's of people to do anything.

Perpetuum has impressed me as a game that has learned from the mistakes other games have made, so I trust that whatever you come up with will be great.