Topic: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Pelistians (Rocket bots) was nerfed again.
The first range decrease was made at:
http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2010-11-15
Change: Optimal range of medium ballistic missiles lowered from 350m to 330m (420m to 395m in case of HEAT-IX missiles).

Yesterday pelistian army got second range nerf:
http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2011-01-13
Change: Lowered the optimal range of small missiles from 150/180 to 135/160 meters.
Change: Lowered the optimal range of medium compact missiles from 150/180 to 135/160 meters.
Change: Lowered the optimal range of medium ballistic missiles from 330/395 to 300/350 meters.

In other words we got 50 meters total nerf for the most usable rockets and 70 meters total nerf for the IX rockets. The solution, what offers DEVs, is to use t3 and t4 missile launchers, what will increase range even bigger than pre-nerfed range. This is awesome! For carebearing corporations.

Imagine that one week ago 5 players decided to play pelistians. They had much fun, because of normal game balance. From yesterday they became weaker to telodica (laser warriors), and they have only two solutions: farm thousand of kernels to gain t3-4 rocket launchers for increasing their key ability, or reset accounts and play nuimquol or thelodica. What they decided?: Leave or change spec. In any case we will have less pelistians on battlefield, what will cause thelodica advantage. This is imbalance.

So, let me summarize:
In next month we will see decrease in pelistian numbers, while t3-t4 tech will be more available. But this will not change ballance, and pelistian warriors in generall will be weaker.

I want DEVs to fix this part of the game ballance.

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Overall pelistal received a buff. Other races get range bonuses to high end weapons, and this range change brings missiles back in line with them. The improved explosion radius, even longer T4 range, and improved racial ewar range make pelistals much better than they were pre patch.

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Lyghtcrye wrote:

Overall pelistal received a buff. Other races get range bonuses to high end weapons, and this range change brings missiles back in line with them. The improved explosion radius, even longer T4 range, and improved racial ewar range make pelistals much better than they were pre patch.

This is correct information.

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Lyghtcrye wrote:

Overall pelistal received a buff. Other races get range bonuses to high end weapons, and this range change brings missiles back in line with them. The improved explosion radius, even longer T4 range, and improved racial ewar range make pelistals much better than they were pre patch.

I saw troiar got speed nerf, dunno why ...

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

IMHO pelistals got more boost then nerf.

i even think the missile mechs will grow in number among the pvp player.
especially with the lock-time bonus of the tyrannos and gropho and what interference does...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

I think DEVs must comment their important balance changes. Too many thoughts, and probably no one with the main reason.

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Missiles = lowest damage, lowest rate of fire, lowest range.

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Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

The main reason was T3/T4 missile launchers didnt get enough of a bonus over standard.  Now, we actually get farther missile range in end game, so you should consider this a buff.

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Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Neoxx wrote:

The main reason was T3/T4 missile launchers didnt get enough of a bonus over standard.  Now, we actually get farther missile range in end game, so you should consider this a buff.

This is a buff in case when technology is researched. Else, we have increasing time for pelistian kernel farming.

In case when game balanced in any technological level: we got balance fix with this patch.
Else: we got unbalanced game in different levels of KB research.

Thougts?

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Alexadar wrote:

This is a buff in case when technology is researched. Else, we have increasing time for pelistian kernel farming.

In case when game balanced in any technological level: we got balance fix with this patch.
Else: we got unbalanced game in different levels of KB research.

Thougts?

Use the market. or farm T5 mobs.

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Exomorph wrote:

I saw troiar got speed nerf, dunno why ...

probably a little mistake when the dev changed his mind to not nerf ewar speed, but boost all others.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Lyghtcrye wrote:

Overall pelistal received a buff. Other races get range bonuses to high end weapons, and this range change brings missiles back in line with them. The improved explosion radius, even longer T4 range, and improved racial ewar range make pelistals much better than they were pre patch.

Apart from fitting a decent gropho is pretty brutal. Fitting it with t4 weapons is going to be a *** and a half.

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13 (edited by Reefpirate 2011-01-14 21:06:51)

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Missiles = lowest damage, lowest rate of fire, lowest range.

Missiles = Highest alpha-strike, least LOS issues, and often the highest effective range*.

By effective range I mean they don't have to worry about hitting little bumps or trees when firing at a target 300m away. Hell, often when I'm fighting around 100m - 200m with my lasers or EM guns I have trouble getting LOS consistently.

And ya, in the end game you got a range buff, so don't worry about it. Do the kernel research, or just buy them off the market. Prices will come down as the economy matures.

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Poor Alex sad

For big QQ...

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

I don't get how it's the highest alpha when 1 missile does half the damage that 1 mag or laser does. Only good thing about missiles is they hit a bit more often then guns do. However because rate of fire, guns still deal more damage overall.

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Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

The T3 and T4 small/med launchers sucks compare to other weaponsT3/4.
I want volley damage not cycle speed and 135m for med missile? There is no LOS to cover behind in that range. 135m is an joke! I can make an homemade firework rocket go longer than that!

Missiles are weak. And since they bots/mecs are so god damn slow to they really cant hide under LOS anyway, everyone else will catch you.
And the long range missle do almost same dps as an small one? baah

17 (edited by Tiller 2011-01-19 14:14:53)

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

HereticZero wrote:

I don't get how it's the highest alpha when 1 missile does half the damage that 1 mag or laser does. Only good thing about missiles is they hit a bit more often then guns do. However because rate of fire, guns still deal more damage overall.

With basic robotics lvl 8. 5x T4launchers and an waspish still gets out damage By red and blue with lvl 4-5robotics and standard guns

Waspish is the ONLY good missile bot/mec atm, cuse its range bonus. ''in pve'' oh i forgot u have to have alt if you want to loot, cuse you are in an green!

In pvp they are so slow so mecs will catch you behind the LOS
And just becouse it can kill intakts easy doesent make it Invincible

18 (edited by Ajtony 2011-01-19 18:01:18)

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

I don't really see why are you guys complaining. Pelistals got a buff in fact, especially the Tyrannos and the Gropho. The low raw damage output is a fact, but people seem to forget that at 300m+ fighting range the other bots suffer seriously from LoS issues while Pelistals don't. I actually think that in a big long-range engagement Pelistals have the highest effective damage. Don't compare pvp to pve and you'll have a better grasp on what's happening.

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

missile user cant play out their full potential right now, as we don't have terraforming.
Same goes for long range laser - which cannot use their full potential all the time either.

We had a little test fight in BETA to test a stationary defense system with terraformed surroundings. To bad that there was not everyone necessary availiable on the defending force, and that the attacking force was... lame. (that was their worst tactical performance in the whole beta)

But on topic: both sides where lacking missile mechs that could deal damage with much less LoS issues. It may sound crazy, but the delayed damage of missiles can be very benefical if you do it right.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Tiller wrote:
HereticZero wrote:

I don't get how it's the highest alpha when 1 missile does half the damage that 1 mag or laser does. Only good thing about missiles is they hit a bit more often then guns do. However because rate of fire, guns still deal more damage overall.

With basic robotics lvl 8. 5x T4launchers and an waspish still gets out damage By red and blue with lvl 4-5robotics and standard guns

Waspish is the ONLY good missile bot/mec atm, cuse its range bonus. ''in pve'' oh i forgot u have to have alt if you want to loot, cuse you are in an green!

In pvp they are so slow so mecs will catch you behind the LOS
And just becouse it can kill intakts easy doesent make it Invincible

this is totally true... and this is probably the last time i will bother saying anything on this matter because ALF doesnt care, as according to his numbers and spreadsheets the missiles and pels are OP and will continue to nerf us as he sees fit. So its pretty pointless arguing this anymore

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21 (edited by Alexadar 2011-01-20 15:27:23)

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Steeldragonz wrote:
Tiller wrote:
HereticZero wrote:

I don't get how it's the highest alpha when 1 missile does half the damage that 1 mag or laser does. Only good thing about missiles is they hit a bit more often then guns do. However because rate of fire, guns still deal more damage overall.

With basic robotics lvl 8. 5x T4launchers and an waspish still gets out damage By red and blue with lvl 4-5robotics and standard guns

Waspish is the ONLY good missile bot/mec atm, cuse its range bonus. ''in pve'' oh i forgot u have to have alt if you want to loot, cuse you are in an green!

In pvp they are so slow so mecs will catch you behind the LOS
And just becouse it can kill intakts easy doesent make it Invincible

this is totally true... and this is probably the last time i will bother saying anything on this matter because ALF doesnt care, as according to his numbers and spreadsheets the missiles and pels are OP and will continue to nerf us as he sees fit. So its pretty pointless arguing this anymore

I hope ALF will give explanation to his next balance changes.

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Actually I don't think that the last patch was a nerf for pelistals, t4 will become much more common anyway. It's an other thing that I too think pelistals need more "love", the troiar and the tyrannos are quite underwhelming.

About missiles: what about giving them something like fall-off? Let's say after optimal range the missile guidance failure would increase. This way it would be much easier to balance rockets.

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

Seridur wrote:

Actually I don't think that the last patch was a nerf for pelistals, t4 will become much more common anyway. It's an other thing that I too think pelistals need more "love", the troiar and the tyrannos are quite underwhelming.

About missiles: what about giving them something like fall-off? Let's say after optimal range the missile guidance failure would increase. This way it would be much easier to balance rockets.


No nerf? They nerfed the missiles and boost the missile launchers. but! the T3/4 missile launchers was pathetic compare to other T3/4 ''how come that other weapon get higher dps at T3 and T4? and missiles that need its volley damage only got the cycle time? and now some range?

So overall. they gave us an minor missile range for the pimped PVEs! What i think!, the person behind this missile nerfing is a griny intakt driver that got killed to many times by a  waspish

24 (edited by Annihilator 2011-01-20 19:24:33)

Re: Patch 13.01.2011 :: Pelistian Nerf

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … 4-weapons/

that was probably one of the reasons behind that. Earlier patches have already shown, that Alf doesn't want missiles to have the highest effective range - they are placed inbetween EM and Lasers.

to archive both things, the logical result was - launchers get range bonus, missiles get a bit lower base range.

another option would be - bring missiles base range back to what it was, and change the propulsion extension to "3m per level" instead of "3% per level"

it also seems kinda unavoidable that he will touch the falloff range of lasers in the near future.

how come that other weapon get higher dps at T3 and T4? and missiles that need its volley damage only got the cycle time? and now some range?

dps = damage per time = (damage per cycle) / cycletime.

Standard medium LcL laser vs. t4 medium lvl laser = 32% more damage bonus
Standard medium launcher vs. t4 medium launcher = 33% less cycletime

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear