Topic: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

Concerning interference http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/

So I asked Dev in chat last night if the interference that robots emit effects all bots, including enemy bots.  And vice versa enemy bots compiles together with your own.

The answer to this was Yes.  Which immediately struck me as a bit odd.

It means that a larger blob could actually use this to interfere with the smaller blob.  Which means that the bigger blob doesn't actually have a disadvantage.  Since the negative effects of the large blob effect the small blob, all negative effects are equal, and canceled out.  The bigger blob still wins.

In Addition;

We know that one way to counter this might be to have a nexus module fitted in your group.  Since Nexus modules dont effect the enemy, only your squad.  Nexus modules have an area of effect also, in order to maximize the rewards of this you would want everyone inside this radius.   With further encourages 'blobbing'

Ultimately, I fear, interference wont be a big enough blob-deterrent.  A smaller squad who encounters a much bigger squad isn't going to say "aha, they have massive interference, we can win"...   they are merely going to realize that "damn, if we fight that our interference is going to be the same as theirs and were going to lose either way.. lets dock up."

We all know that CCP have made thousands of attempts to discourage blobbing in Eve, and every single time it has the opposite effect.   Will interference be another one of those systems which actually encourages blobbing instead of discouraging it?

2 (edited by Alexander 2011-01-13 11:40:56)

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

In real life it may work a little differently than that. We'll see how it works but I too was worried about the same thing.

As I see it if the large blob rushes into the small blob the people at the back of the small blob will still be doing top damage and can kill the large blob bit by bit while the people in the thick of the blob won't be able to do a damn thing.

I think we'll see smaller gang warfare for a little while at least due to the fact it'll be have some benefit. It may need balancing a lot more but this is at least a good start.

We'll still have alpha strike kills. Blobs will still form but it greatly increases the use of ewar against blobs and long range speed fits will be more used. Less DPS overall being output from a blob. Numbers will be an advantage but ONLY if you have the skills to use them and that's how it should be not.

A 100 man group with 25 Arkhe MK2's was just outrageous. But the tactic worked and made them look more deadly than they were.

The Game

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

How about we stop speculating on no data?

And wait for the patch to deploy?

4 (edited by Annihilator 2011-01-13 12:17:21)

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Help:Interference

i love "search" feature of the ingame help wink

and im curious how those "Interference minelayer" work...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

5 (edited by Alexander 2011-01-13 12:23:48)

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

Probably like mobile teleports. They'll probably deploy to the ground and create extra interference. Making tactics count even more. It's still more numbers with skills = win but more numbers with skills is very hard to do.

The Game

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

from what i read, the strength of the emission effect differs from bot to bot, and the treshold how much your bot can handle is also different.

i really hope, that the small fast bots get a low emission, but are prone to the effect, while the bigger bots are radiating like Jelans ego, but can also ignore a bigger part of it.

those tactical emmitter modules - hope they are misc slot modules, and not engineering or electronics slot - and the ammo very expensive and big (like injektor ammo)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

With any luck it'll be 1 emitter charge per module, and heavy charges. Probably designed for a sequer to lay them or maybe even bigger.

The Game

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

Siddy wrote:

How about we stop speculating on no data?

And wait for the patch to deploy?

And pass up the chance to say "I told you so" ?

U Mad bro? yarr

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

Just remember that interference must first 'accumulate to critical levels' before the debuff is applied. 

A blob traveling as one will have the debuff by the time they enter combat, while the debuff may not be applied to the smaller force (by the larger one) until combat has been engaged in for an extended period (at which point it is likely to be over anyway).

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

Just remember that interference must first 'accumulate to critical levels' before the debuff is applied. 

A blob traveling as one will have the debuff by the time they enter combat, while the debuff may not be applied to the smaller force (by the larger one) until combat has been engaged in for an extended period (at which point it is likely to be over anyway).

11 (edited by Annihilator 2011-01-13 12:46:32)

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

with accumulate they probable mean, you have to reach the criticial group-size (eg. 10 heavy mechs per 100m Radius)

is that already server heavy, but having it to accumulate over time like the recharge of the accumulator - that would probably kill the server in a 50 vs. 50 situation

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

I want to know how this is going to effect alpha island miners. tongue

Will they be effected?

The Game

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

Annihilator wrote:

with accumulate they probable mean, you have to reach the criticial group-size (eg. 10 heavy mechs per 100m Radius)

is that already server heavy, but having it to accumulate over time like the recharge of the accumulator - that would probably kill the server in a 50 vs. 50 situation

From what I've read, seen and heard I imagine the effects will be instantly on and off when a robot come in range. There won't be a slow build up or cool down. If you move away from the blob as soon as you're outside of the main interference rang it should stop effecting you. I just hope the effect happens everywhere and it's time to blob grief alpha islands.

The Game

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

Bastian Croft wrote:

Just remember that interference must first 'accumulate to critical levels' before the debuff is applied. 

A blob traveling as one will have the debuff by the time they enter combat, while the debuff may not be applied to the smaller force (by the larger one) until combat has been engaged in for an extended period (at which point it is likely to be over anyway).

Its not really fair that a squad should form up, in accordance with the DEV's desire for us to make smaller groups...  only to encounter a larger group and have all that advantage stripped away.

Consider a 5 squad of EW,  encountering a 15 squad.   The 15 squad is just gona zerg the smaller squad as soon as they can so that their, inherent disadvantage is projected onto their enemy.

Whats changed?  nothing.  small squad will run and come back only when they can match numbers, thus the blob mentality continues.

in fact, if anyone's been involved with recent pvp skirmishes on the islands will know, is that the pvp is becoming a better quality,  even when out numbered, superior experience and tactics are winning through.   Proper use of landscape, proper use of EW mix with Assaults and Mechs, playing into the advantages of bonus's and damage types.


The problem is with Intrusions!!   its this system only which is encouraging blob's..  Change the intrusion mechanic, have more cap points and more variety to that, thats were the real problem is.

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

Alexander wrote:

I want to know how this is going to effect alpha island miners. tongue

Will they be effected?

Excellent point!   Having your interference effecting others is just the same as body blocking imo,  still open for grieving potential

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

From how I understand it, there is no exception. So Alpha miners should be affected aswell.
What I don't understand is why the interference has some max influence?

17 (edited by Artem Blue 2011-01-13 14:02:36)

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

The simple answer is that enforcing, however it is achieved, a bot-density cap will not "solve" a "blob" problem.

At best it will create spatially-extended phalaxes crammed together at exactly the bot-density cap. (And my guess is interference won't achieve that universal enforcement of a bot-density cap.) These phalanxes might be more boring for the players in the middle, with nothing to shoot, and the numerically-inferior side (though buffed by comparison to before, since their incoming damage will decrease) will still complain about numbers being the deciding factor.

The force towards "blobs" or "phalanxes" is very strong, and it's called "defeat in detail". In general, dividing your forces leaves you open to someone else dividing their forces less, and overpowering each of your divisions one at a time.

If we want to create an incentive to small-group combat, we would need powerfully motivating spatially-extended objectives - incentives to hold large sections of space, rather than disincentives to go above a density cap. For example, in the game of Hex, you need to spread from one side of the board to the other, and / or prevent your opponent from spreading in the same manner - the objective of the game is completely based on spatial extent.

Creating and guarding long chains of relay towers as they transmit freight or energy, might be thematically appropriate.

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

Alexander wrote:

I want to know how this is going to effect alpha island miners. tongue

Will they be effected?

It won't at all. Per the Help file, "You can place the emitter anywhere on the terrain, but it affects robots only on outer zones. It won't interfere with robots in New Virginia, Attalica, and Daoden."

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

Aid The Lemon wrote:
Alexander wrote:

I want to know how this is going to effect alpha island miners. tongue

Will they be effected?

It won't at all. Per the Help file, "You can place the emitter anywhere on the terrain, but it affects robots only on outer zones. It won't interfere with robots in New Virginia, Attalica, and Daoden."

Silly goose. I was talking about general robot interference. NOT these new interference mines.

The Game

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

Alexander wrote:

Silly goose. I was talking about general robot interference. NOT these new interference mines.

Oh, right. Reading that again, that line *does* only apply to emitters. Good point. I just got home from work and am super tired, so I shouldn't be posting, hmm...

If I had to guess, though, I'd imagine interference would only still affect people on beta islands, but they never have said for sure. Hmm. Won't be long until we find out, I suppose!

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

With an ark near an interference emitter, my lock time change from 12.5s to 35s
It has few armor

Re: Interference; Adequate blob deterent?

Alkanys wrote:

With an ark near an interference emitter, my lock time change from 12.5s to 35s
It has few armor

Facepalm!