Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

"Just @ Game" - Badass

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

Do you guys use more than 1 account for that?

But I just asking, if another else is feels the same, then its not ok I will adapt somehow, even I think this is just a silly move atm.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

Inda wrote:

Do you guys use more than 1 account for that?

But I just asking, if another else is feels the same, then its not ok I will adapt somehow, even I think this is just a silly move atm.



just spend a little time playing around with fits and I'm sure you will find some good ones

if you want the high damage for pve you will need et bot on another account or do it in a group

29 (edited by Annihilator 2016-11-16 12:55:02)

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

Inda wrote:

Personally:

I cant PVE as efficeintly as before
I cant make Harvesting missions as effective as before (dont even talk about Noralgis farming.)

I need to change and test all my fittings on our PVP machines, and that is because of no real good changes just for the greens.

Inda... you f*** kidding me there.

pre patch, you had to cycle only a few times to get the yield for a lvl6 mission, in a 5-tuner fit symbiont.
now, a SINGLE tuning increases your yield as much as FOUR AND A HALF t4's prepatch.

in other words, a laird mk2 with with two t4 tunings is now more effective running harvest missions on alpha, then a symbiont with five pre-patch.
for beta, i heard the new mining/harvesting Assault bot is the thing, due to its higher driving speed.

correct me if i am wrong, but how can you now be LESS effective then before?
are you talking about a 5-tuner fit symbiont mk2 after patch, with a factor of 7.5 yield, is not as effective as a factor 1.6 yield pre-patch??

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

Im really curious inda, beacuse nse spend the first 2 days theory crafting and testing fits all day long.  We were testing everything: pve, pvp, indi.  How long did you test or did you go out get blown up and then you ran to the forums to cry about it?  Even Annihilator pointed out the obvious bad *** changes to indi.  Sure a t4 fit symbiont can't be cap stable with all head tuners.  But the multiplier you can get if you can balance it is so much better than perpatch.

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

Annihilator wrote:
Inda wrote:

Personally:

I cant PVE as efficeintly as before
I cant make Harvesting missions as effective as before (dont even talk about Noralgis farming.)

I need to change and test all my fittings on our PVP machines, and that is because of no real good changes just for the greens.

Inda... you f*** kidding me there.

pre patch, you had to cycle only a few times to get the yield for a lvl6 mission, in a 5-tuner fit symbiont.
now, a SINGLE tuning increases your yield as much as FOUR AND A HALF t4's prepatch.

in other words, a laird mk2 with with two t4 tunings is now more effective running harvest missions on alpha, then a symbiont with five pre-patch.
for beta, i heard the new mining/harvesting Assault bot is the thing, due to its higher driving speed.

correct me if i am wrong, but how can you now be LESS effective then before?
are you talking about a 5-tuner fit symbiont mk2 after patch, with a factor of 7.5 yield, is not as effective as a factor 1.6 yield pre-patch??

QFT:
I am glad someone besides NSE pointed this out to him.  I was wondering how much you guys really play this game.  Now I know the truth based upon forum tears and lack of understanding on the new patch.

32 (edited by Inda 2016-11-16 19:11:59)

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

Obviously I use the old fittings I used, and that fittings has a purpose in it. And THAT way the effectivity is worse I can use barely 1 tuning vs 4 in a robot where is not any other real option to fit.

You guys think I am stupid, and I also dont test anything, yes I had spend less time lately (than before), but still know what is about.

And I still think this is all together is worse than before, and there is not much of a benefits.

I would just support more Greens withouth this INSANITY.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

with the free slots, you could anything that you would require if the game wouldn't be 100% carebearing.
like... shield-hardeners, masker, weapon tuning for the weapon in that one slot you have always left empty on your torso for 4 years.

ok, for the last one, i would expect the DEVs to give industrials the same damage bonus as the daidalos has, just for the other weapons, and give the weapon tunings the same treatment as the industrial ones.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

Annihilator wrote:

with the free slots, you could anything that you would require if the game wouldn't be 100% carebearing.

The game is NOT 100% carebear, NSE is still playing. tongue  Maybe that is why NSE put in the effort to figure out this new patch and everyone else is sitting in their old NAP builds.

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

Its ok... winter is coming.

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

Speaking about weapons tho I have more thougths.

   TL:DR - Give a rebalance to base weapon AP consumption to even the weapon tunings out again.

   We got different AP consumption penalties for tuners becouse of the base AP weapon consumption. In that state you can't have it same for it will favor firearms and missiles a great deal. In current state firearms can still pack a few tuners without much significance on accumulator while magnetic weapons suffer greatly after putting even a single one on (go ahead and try firing all 6 EM guns on mesmer constantly after getting a single tuning on - without ridiculous ammount of Accumulator rechargers).
   Now someone will probably think that the weapons need to be that way becouse of realism. I would beg to differ tho. We are using up ammunition - bullets have explosive powder, slugs look like they have a sort of bobbin, missiles must have fuel in them and energy cells are essentialy a battery.

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

If we talking about tuners, then Shield Hardeners and Enwar tuners must be rebalance too... Because today one HM with 5 tunings can drain into 0AP 4 HM(!) in 1 minute(!). Discuss.

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

Mroq wrote:

Speaking about weapons tho I have more thougths.

   TL:DR - Give a rebalance to base weapon AP consumption to even the weapon tunings out again.

   We got different AP consumption penalties for tuners becouse of the base AP weapon consumption. In that state you can't have it same for it will favor firearms and missiles a great deal. In current state firearms can still pack a few tuners without much significance on accumulator while magnetic weapons suffer greatly after putting even a single one on (go ahead and try firing all 6 EM guns on mesmer constantly after getting a single tuning on - without ridiculous ammount of Accumulator rechargers).
   Now someone will probably think that the weapons need to be that way becouse of realism. I would beg to differ tho. We are using up ammunition - bullets have explosive powder, slugs look like they have a sort of bobbin, missiles must have fuel in them and energy cells are essentialy a battery.

i miss the times when it was near impossible to have any t4 medium weapon "to fire constantly", and injector ammo was 1/10th of its current size (f*** jita!)

Chemist wrote:

If we talking about tuners, then Shield Hardeners and Enwar tuners must be rebalance too... Because today one HM with 5 tunings can drain into 0AP 4 HM(!) in 1 minute(!). Discuss.

well, that was my first point when it was announced.
Range extender and shield tuner are not having ANY penalty aside of their slot requirement.
ok, i remember the time when each range extender put a penalty on accumulator recharge,
and shield tuners had been active modules

both had their "penalties" removed, because "wasting a slot is penalty enough" (for the RE), and
shield hardeners made no sense to be active modules at that time.
and to top that, on missile bots, the penalty had no significant impact.

enwar tunings are ok... if zoom would ever fix their bug, and adjust the penalty to what he has implemented for other tunings wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

39 (edited by BadAss 2016-11-25 19:55:42)

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

fu*k u Zoom with ur balance. ur game sh|t. smile

Just @ Game

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

Just @ Game?

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

Annihilator wrote:
Mroq wrote:

Speaking about weapons tho I have more thougths.

   TL:DR - Give a rebalance to base weapon AP consumption to even the weapon tunings out again.

   We got different AP consumption penalties for tuners becouse of the base AP weapon consumption. In that state you can't have it same for it will favor firearms and missiles a great deal. In current state firearms can still pack a few tuners without much significance on accumulator while magnetic weapons suffer greatly after putting even a single one on (go ahead and try firing all 6 EM guns on mesmer constantly after getting a single tuning on - without ridiculous ammount of Accumulator rechargers).
   Now someone will probably think that the weapons need to be that way becouse of realism. I would beg to differ tho. We are using up ammunition - bullets have explosive powder, slugs look like they have a sort of bobbin, missiles must have fuel in them and energy cells are essentialy a battery.

i miss the times when it was near impossible to have any t4 medium weapon "to fire constantly", and injector ammo was 1/10th of its current size (f*** jita!)

Chemist wrote:

If we talking about tuners, then Shield Hardeners and Enwar tuners must be rebalance too... Because today one HM with 5 tunings can drain into 0AP 4 HM(!) in 1 minute(!). Discuss.

well, that was my first point when it was announced.
Range extender and shield tuner are not having ANY penalty aside of their slot requirement.
ok, i remember the time when each range extender put a penalty on accumulator recharge,
and shield tuners had been active modules

both had their "penalties" removed, because "wasting a slot is penalty enough" (for the RE), and
shield hardeners made no sense to be active modules at that time.
and to top that, on missile bots, the penalty had no significant impact.

enwar tunings are ok... if zoom would ever fix their bug, and adjust the penalty to what he has implemented for other tunings wink

Don't get mad bro. it was just a few bot you lost

42 (edited by Rovoc 2016-11-26 05:20:16)

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

If you put a penalty on range extenders you take sieging gamma out of the picture completely.  Although, at this point in time i think it might already be out of the picture.

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

We're revising the accumulator usage modification of tunings, so the difference between AC and machine guns shouldn't be that prominent after the changes, but it's still there, so here is my proposition:

CURRENT (Machine gun vs Autocannon)

MG		Cycle	Accumulator	Damage	DPS	Accu per sec	DPS ratio*	Accu ratio*
T1		4	2		160	40		0.50	1.49		2.00
T2		4	1		160	40		0.25	1.49		2.00
T3		4	2		170	42.5		0.50	1.51		4.00
T4		3	2		135	45		0.67	1.44		2.67
AC		Cycle	Accumulator	Damage	DPS	Accu per sec
T1		8	2		215	26.875		0.25
T2		8	1		215	26.875		0.13
T3		8	1		225	28.125		0.13
T4		8	2		250	31.25		0.25

NEW (Machine gun vs Autocannon - accumulator usage brought in line, tier cycle times equalized)

MG		Cycle	Accumulator	Damage	DPS	Accu per sec	DPS ratio*	Accu ratio*
T1		4	2		160	40		0.50	1.49		1.45
T2		4	1.5		160	40		0.38	1.49		1.46
T3		4	2		170	42.5		0.50	1.51		1.51
T4		4	2.5		180	45		0.63	1.44		1.43
AC		Cycle	Accumulator	Damage	DPS	Accu per sec
T1		8	2.75		215	26.875		0.34
T2		8	2.05		215	26.875		0.26
T3		8	2.65		225	28.125		0.33
T4		8	3.5		250	31.25		0.44

* DPS and Accumulator ratio is MG/AC
** DPS is calculated with using 1 damage ammos for simplicity's sake and doesn't consider ciritical hits

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

You people were never very good at fitting bots. The *** damage modification is still there. Has it not occured to you that one full Gauss Seth mk2 with Nexus does more damage than three one tuning Seth mk2?

One energy transfer bot would work fine with the added bonus of having a) energy shown in your gang window and b) tuning not needed so you can use a lot of shield hardeners.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

45 (edited by Goffer 2017-02-07 08:32:47)

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

After this patch, missile are far more better than now, and Messmer will have really no use left
As when AC energy is also getting more a problem, you will prefer Missle for all fits that need energy for more than just dps (like Rep, ECM, ...)

Re: Medium Firearm AP consumption (or any other weapon)

A spreadsheet for T4 weapons using standard ammo. Ignore pink sections.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ … sp=sharing