1 (edited by Ensireka 2016-08-20 13:04:08)

Topic: Time for Alpha 3's!

So, basically the ore patches are considerably smaller in area, but yield a LOT more materials.  (about 50% - 75% of Beta).  There would be NO liquids on Alpha 3's!

Perhaps we can introduce 3 new RARE Harvestable plants found only on Alpha 3's (one for each color)?  Or, the plants need to grow faster and produce more ... or ... just the beginning of this 'paragraph'. 

Miners and PvE'ers would also be targets of the now roaming RED npcs.  There would be NO static spawns, but there would be at least 1 industrial mech (not necessarily heavy) with the roams; we could use a way to get Industrial Kernels w/o these terrible beacons.  They would AVOID teleports ... some players just move too slow to be given a chance to escape REDS gate camping. 

Introduction to EXPLOSION DAMAGE!  So, it's like Beta, w/o the PvP aspect or Terminals or Epriton!

Up to level 5 with a minimum of 1 Standard Observer in each group.  The now industrial caravans would have a minimum of 1 Superior Observer and / or 2 Standard Observers.  Superior Observers would have a low chance to drop a CT of anything with a P of 5 - 10 (you can combine CT's ...)

No Terminals.  Though, there are Assignment locations.  Standing could now increase to level 8.  Level 7 relationship would now be on Alpha 3 (Delta) and level 8 on Beta could take it to level 9, but that would need to be Gamma.

Any rants and raves?

-Ensi

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Don't need more Alphas, we need people to play on betas. If the core of the suggestion is that there needs to be a halfway between a alpha and a beta then that I could get behind. But I would even then just upgrade the alpha 2s to these "pretend betas". I do think the devs have expressed intentinoas to move to this direction.

I don't get what is the point about lack of terminals. If there is no PvP it not like their hiding place nature really matters. And if there are going to be field terminals most of their functionality would be provided anyway.

We do not need any added real estate and certainly not extended PvPless space.

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Rolafen Azec wrote:

Don't need more Alphas, we need people to play on betas. If the core of the suggestion is that there needs to be a halfway between a alpha and a beta then that I could get behind. But I would even then just upgrade the alpha 2s to these "pretend betas". I do think the devs have expressed intentinoas to move to this direction.

I don't get what is the point about lack of terminals. If there is no PvP it not like their hiding place nature really matters. And if there are going to be field terminals most of their functionality would be provided anyway.

We do not need any added real estate and certainly not extended PvPless space.

The lack of terminals is to make it a place you don't have the ability to buy and sell, all the while making it a place you can't just hide from the NPC's.  It's a crash test in what Beta would be like.  So, people can get a taste of it, combat and the risks w/o having to worry about that added factor of Beta ...

So, in the end, I would hope it would help players get more comfortable to the idea of heading to Beta ... you know ... it may seem like garbage; but my thoughts and heart are in the exact right place.  Just saying. 

We know there are plenty of people that won't head to Beta ... work them in.  Coax them that direction. 

-Enis

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

With splash damage there is a risk that player will find a way to make other agents die even if directly locking and shooting at a agent is forbidden.

The difference between beta and alpha is fine if you just stick with trying to do beta. The difference is a bit steep but any "fix" is just going to try fight peoples scrubness.

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Lets please add more islands to the game so you can have 1 island per person! big_smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Lets please add more islands to the game so you can have 1 island per person! big_smile

LEZ DO IT!

-Ensi

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Rolafen Azec wrote:

With splash damage there is a risk that player will find a way to make other agents die even if directly locking and shooting at a agent is forbidden.

The difference between beta and alpha is fine if you just stick with trying to do beta. The difference is a bit steep but any "fix" is just going to try fight peoples scrubness.

I'll be honest ... didn't think of that.  sad   Great job Rolafen Azec

Bah!  lol.  Maybe they could do a flag of sorts ... no pve damage if you aren't combating the unit or buffing or repping ... or w/e that would be beneficial to the player. 

Maybe ...

-Ensi

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Ore plots on alpha2 are large enough unless you come there with 10 HM mk2 with maxed EP.

Why explosin damage means you are no longer save is obvious. And I see no need to introduce better assignments on alpha island.

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Goffer wrote:

Ore plots on alpha2 are large enough unless you come there with 10 HM mk2 with maxed EP.

Why explosin damage means you are no longer save is obvious. And I see no need to introduce better assignments on alpha island.

The fact that Alpha 2's ore plots are 'large enough' is like saying 1 bite of your favorite food is enough ...

My idea proposes a smaller 'area' with a higher 'concentration' per tile.  Then, with the Alpha 3's, it would introduce time elapsed shrinking tiles.  Maybe Alpha 3's could have a higher plant growth rate ...

I'm not necessarily saying introduce better Assignments to an Alpha, more like a slight rework to the current system to give players something to work towards ... ofc, Gamma assignment's would be nice too ... a few terminals and more red's out there ...

So, my idea is that the standing / financial bonus for assignments could be lowered throughout, with the Alpha 3's taking a softer hit compared to Alpha 2's assignments and the Beta's getting the basic same standing / NIC gain as they have now, just with a higher available standing to reach ... you know, a GOAL.  smile 

Then, maybe they can introduce a better version of the 'Mercenary, Vanguard and Praetorian' robots that require 8.0 standing, +1.5b +current HM; which on purchase drops your standing with all opposing factions by 200 - 400 (will be flat rate, however, Dev's would need to decide what seems fair)

Just more content and goals ... that's it.

-Ensi

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

+1

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

More alpha content bad

More beta content good

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Jita wrote:

More alpha content bad

More beta content good

more black/white content is fail

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Ensireka wrote:

The fact that Alpha 2's ore plots are 'large enough' is like saying 1 bite of your favorite food is enough ...

If you mine on a fresh ore spot on alpha2 you will have work there with 3-5 HM mk2 for more than an hour.
A single Bot will stay there half a day.
That is far more than "Just a bite".
I guess your problem are the squattered spots near Terminal.

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Jita wrote:

More alpha content bad

More beta content good

Less content is bad

More content is good smile

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Goffer wrote:
Ensireka wrote:

The fact that Alpha 2's ore plots are 'large enough' is like saying 1 bite of your favorite food is enough ...

If you mine on a fresh ore spot on alpha2 you will have work there with 3-5 HM mk2 for more than an hour.
A single Bot will stay there half a day.
That is far more than "Just a bite".
I guess your problem are the squattered spots near Terminal.

My issue is the 'area' they take up is large, however, the amount you get per tile is small.  So, if the area was shrunk and the amount per tile was increased by the same amount ... people with higher skills wouldn't need to switch so often.  I'm thinking along the sides of 30% tile area reduction and 30% per tile increase. 

Wasn't there a thread about how laboring mining (not liquids) / harvesting was in the first place?  Compare ore's vs liquids, most people gathering liquids will never need to move while the field is there ...   

-Ensi

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Ensireka wrote:

My issue is the 'area' they take up is large, however, the amount you get per tile is small.  So, if the area was shrunk and the amount per tile was increased by the same amount ... people with higher skills wouldn't need to switch so often.  I'm thinking along the sides of 30% tile area reduction and 30% per tile increase. 

Wasn't there a thread about how laboring mining (not liquids) / harvesting was in the first place?  Compare ore's vs liquids, most people gathering liquids will never need to move while the field is there ...   

-Ensi

the point is - this "inconvinience" is one of the factors that shall drive you to mine on beta, and gamma, where milk and honey flows for the minor price of higher risk.

we wouldn't have this discussion, if the DEVs didn't decide to remove the "grand" observer spawns from alpha (far weaker, assault and mech observers).
a single player could handle them most times, or just avoid them for a few seconds until it passed.
then they got replaced by these huge caravans with lots of bots, lots of industrial ewars, slowly creeping around and more anoying as anything.

at some point, they decided we need non-agressive npcs, like in a korean grinder mmo with barely dressed anime avatars.

now, they had to make this somehow attractive to do the stuff on beta...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

The only benefit Beta holds now is Epriton.  Unless you have junky baes on Gamma ...

This 'inconvenience' should also be added to liquids on Alpha, they are far too large and yield far too much, therefore allowing players to AFK overnight to get EP and a small amount of resources.

-Ensi

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Beta holds the following PVE benefits:

Better production
Better prototyping
Better reverse engineering
Better recycling
2X mission payout
Level 6 missions
2X ep payout
Epriton
Better mineral spawns of every material (apart from strangely Titan)
Practically cost free repairing
Better NPC buy order prices for plasma
Level 2 taps can be used
Explosion damage can be used to complete taps (makes them a lot faster)
Artifacting loot is much better
Sap loot
Plants last longer and grow larger (good for noralgis)
Red and larger observer spawns
Red NPC caravans

So the benefits are clear. What's less clear is a) what do you spend the extra money on and b) is the benefit worth the beta station risk.


When black bots came out the benefit vs the risk of the (supposedly broken) mission mechanics were balanced correctly. Every beta 1 island had people regularly doing PVE. This could be the case again by balancing beta PVE properly and by providing higher cost and high end modules and bots so that there is something aspirational to own.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Jita wrote:

Beta holds the following PVE benefits:

Better production
Better prototyping
Better reverse engineering
Better recycling
2X mission payout
Level 6 missions
2X ep payout
Epriton
Better mineral spawns of every material (apart from strangely Titan)
Practically cost free repairing
Better NPC buy order prices for plasma
Level 2 taps can be used
Explosion damage can be used to complete taps (makes them a lot faster)
Artifacting loot is much better
Sap loot
Plants last longer and grow larger (good for noralgis)
Red and larger observer spawns
Red NPC caravans

So the benefits are clear. What's less clear is a) what do you spend the extra money on and b) is the benefit worth the beta station risk.


When black bots came out the benefit vs the risk of the (supposedly broken) mission mechanics were balanced correctly. Every beta 1 island had people regularly doing PVE. This could be the case again by balancing beta PVE properly and by providing higher cost and high end modules and bots so that there is something aspirational to own.

For most of what you listed ... doesn't Gamma provide the same benefits?  (Except for Beta specific Epriton, Mission stuff (including EP) ... ) 

I am not exactly an Expert at either as i'm sure you've figured out.  hmm

So, with proper colony management on Gamma, one would be able to have better of nearly everything you mentioned except the items listed above.  Unless ... Beta is still superior somehow ...

-Ensi

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Gamma has no missions, field terminals, epriton, station services and requires you to spend several billion to create a defendable base. Its also considerably more of a pita with roaming spawns. You do swap that benefit for basically being unkillable doing mining and harvesting.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

21 (edited by Chemist 2016-08-30 15:40:34)

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

Jita wrote:

Gamma has no missions, field terminals, epriton, station services and requires you to spend several billion to create a defendable base. Its also considerably more of a pita with roaming spawns. You do swap that benefit for basically being unkillable doing mining and harvesting.

Tens of billions, Jita.
And a few months, if the building structure from scratch.

22 (edited by Annihilator 2016-08-30 16:13:05)

Re: Time for Alpha 3's!

and then comes from somewhere,
a not-so alone snythetic genital there,
and removes your gamma base from terrain
because he simply couldn't refrain
from showing up his epeen,
towards that lone perpetuum teen.

big_smile

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear