Topic: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

So ... I have a comparison for you :

Material Ratio of 425 (80%)  (level 10 Recycling)

960 Standard Medium Armor Repairer (t1)

Gain                    Material                    Loss                  G.Value                          L.Value                    Mkt.V.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
82,285                Titanium                  13,715               10,285,625                      1,714,375                    125
164,671              Plasteosine               27,429               25,508,505                      4,251,495                    155
41,142                Cryoprene                6,858                 3,085,650                       514,350                        75
164,571              Statichnol                 27,429               90,514,050                     15,085,950                   550
41,142                Chollonin                  6,858                20,571,000                      3,429,000                     500

                                                                Total         149,964,830                     24,995,170




Material Ratio of 325 (75%)  (level 0 Recycling)

960 Standard Medium Armor Repairer (t1)

Gain                    Material                    Loss                  G.Value                          L.Value                    Mkt.V.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
79,058                Titanium                  16,942                9,882,250                      2,117,750                     125
158,117              Plasteosine               33,883               24,508,135                     5,251,865                     155
39,529                Cryoprene                8,471                 2,964,675                       635,325                        75
158,117              Statichnol                 33,883               86,964,350                     18,635,650                   550
39,529                Chollonin                  8,471                19,764,500                       4,235,500                    500

                                                                Total         144,083,910                     30,876,090                     





The EP required Per Level :

1 : 180, 2 : 360, 3 : 540, 4 : 720, 5 : 900, 6 : 2,160, 7 : 3,780, 8 : 5,760, 9 : 8,100, 10 : 18,000

Now, since the test server remains unavailable for me to access due to ... server being down?  I dunno.  Just doesn't ever load to the point where I can connect ...

So, in order to decide if the skill was worthwhile I had to examine if on my main server account.  After this conclusion ... I am disappointed I tossed all that EP into a skill that is virtually useless. 

To manufacture 1 Standard Medium Armor Repairer it requires :

Gain               Material                              Mkt.V.                         Cost Total
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
100                Titanium                             125                                 12,500
200                Plasteosine                          155                                31,000
50                  Cryoprene                           75                                   3,750
200                Statichnol                            550                               110,000
50                  Chollonin                             500                                25,000

                                                                                   Total         182,250



Material Ratio of 425 (80%)  (level 10 Recycling)

1 Standard Medium Armor Repairer (t1)

Gain              Material                    Loss                  G.Value                          L.Value                    Mkt.V.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
85                Titanium                     15                      10,625                         1,875                        125
171              Plasteosine                  29                      26,505                        4,495                        155
42                Cryoprene                   8                        3,150                            600                         75
171              Statichnol                    29                      94,050                        15,950                       550
42                Chollonin                     8                       21,000                         4,000                        500

                                                                Total       155,330                       26,920



Oddly enough ... I figured out the %'age of the Ratios.  It comes out to 14.771%.  I suppose we should consider ourselves lucky ... I still feel that when you look at the mass recycling you get robbed.

However, I believe it's still a little out of par and the Recycle Extension could be tweaked up to 15 and not remain at 10.

As I had just proven with the numbers we actually get a better recycling rate.  Though I have no idea what is causing the invisible bonus of 5.229% ...

I'm posting this even though it really doesn't help my battle for a better ratio.  Just seems crazy when I finished all the comparisons to not just post it anyhow.  lol. 

In the end, I would not have placed points into recycling for such a small gain in value or materials.  I'm no crafter.  I just need the nic. 

-Ensi

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Where did you do the recycle at?
Different islands and different terminals have better values, with of course Beta and Corp owned ones being the best.

Also the terminal relations add to it at well.
So we have the place you recycle, the skill from the extensions and the skill from the relations.

Just FYI, food for thought.

Maybe some places get you higher then 80%??

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

with the current rate of EP gain who wants their EP back?

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Recycling efficiency, along with other production jobs, is based not only the extensions, but also factory points and your relations toward factory owner (or reputation, in case of NPC factories). Alltogether, they give your total efficiency, but, after the certain level any changes will make lesser influence on total value so might be it's your case?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Just fyi, I was on Gamma with my recycling maxed.  So, please tell me what I'm doing wrong ...

-Ensi

6 (edited by Goffer 2016-08-03 07:49:10)

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Ensireka wrote:

Just fyi, I was on Gamma with my recycling maxed.  So, please tell me what I'm doing wrong ...

The mechanic for facilities uses diminishing returns, the the worse the facility the more important are good extensions, the better the facility the less important are extensions. Same is for relation etc.

It is important that even maxed recycling on best facility provides less material, than needed to produce on best facility to ensure no one can create mats by produce ->  recycle -> produce

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Unskilled agent on the gamma facility will get higher efficiency % than fully skilled agent on Alpha 2 base (for example). But that doesn't mean that fully skilled agent will have waaaay higher efficiency on gamma.

Must be something about this:

efficiency = points/(points+100)*100, where points = factory points + extension points + reputation points

As you can see, after the certain level of total points it's change makes lesser and lesser influence on the total percentage.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

I think I get it ... but it just means overall it is really only good for Alpha increases ... sad

-Ensi

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

I do agree that I think the dominant effect here is the S-shapedness of the poitns to effectiveness instead of it being linear in effectiveness. To me it means that you need 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 5 when points can be gained from multiple sources. That is pick any two from Extension, relation or gamma.

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

With it being so inefficient, maybe Advanced Recycling needs to become an Extension.  +2% per level, all the while being a complexity of 9. 

I dunno ... but we could always add another EP sink.  ha ha

-Ensi

11 (edited by Line 2016-08-05 12:28:47)

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

It's not that you're recycling something and get 100% resources back, you know. There should be losses. Oh, and don't forget that more damaged item is, lesser resources it will give. So repairing items first could be an option.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

A long time ago you could go farming for minerals. It was possible to run Corp production just from recycled stuff and you would farm different stuff for different minerals. At this time one corp had complete control of beta and epriton and prices of good were high. I worked out you could recycle universal plates and get epriton based commodities cheaper than the market price and started flooding the market with goods.

This of course upset said corps who pushed for a nerf. Salvaging got hit hard with the nerf stick and became virtually useless. So much so that they had to introduce plasma.

Since then the mineral market has been dead and the module market equally so as people have more nic than minerals.

It was a bad change then and I fought it (and like all my other fights lost) and its still a bad change. The old recycling capped mineral prices, made alpha production for small corps viable and gave a lively mineral and module market. It also prevented the nic inflation problems plasma creates and created a valuable nic sink for repair - another good reason for station ownership.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Jita wrote:

*story*

sounds chronologically wrong, and subjective...

but there some truth in it.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Earlier ppl were farming for kernels and selling them on Beta outposts for NPC orders. Devs removed NPC orders for kernels and implemented plasma instead, that's how it was.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Line wrote:

It's not that you're recycling something and get 100% resources back, you know. There should be losses. Oh, and don't forget that more damaged item is, lesser resources it will give. So repairing items first could be an option.

I don't expect 100% ... just 99.9%.  lol 

Only repaired items were being tested for the recycle I was.  (get it?  LOL)

Recycle my items I yet have to.  (ha ha)

-Ensi

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Line wrote:

Earlier ppl were farming for kernels and selling them on Beta outposts for NPC orders. Devs removed NPC orders for kernels and implemented plasma instead, that's how it was.

Could just pull an EvE and give the bots a bounty.  However, they would likely not pay the same as plasma would.  Too much of a discrepancy in comparison to Alpha and Gamma prices for plasma. 

-Ensi

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Ensireka wrote:

Could just pull an EvE and give the bots a bounty.  However, they would likely not pay the same as plasma would.  Too much of a discrepancy in comparison to Alpha and Gamma prices for plasma. 

-Ensi

First words of every newbie in this game who ever played in Eve is "oh look it's 99% like EvE!"

That's the most reason of all those "let's just go another way" things like plasma or shields or whatever.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

18 (edited by Hunter 2016-08-10 09:18:26)

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Ensireka wrote:

Just fyi, I was on Gamma...

nuff said lol

Next!

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Hunter wrote:
Ensireka wrote:

Just fyi, I was on Gamma...

nuff said

Indeed. The curve is so shallow at the gamma end of things that the industry points from the extension make bugger all difference. Try again at TMA.

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Hunter wrote:
Ensireka wrote:

Just fyi, I was on Gamma...

nuff said lol

Next!

Really?  That doesn't explain a darn thing. 

Ludlow Bursar wrote:
Hunter wrote:
Ensireka wrote:

Just fyi, I was on Gamma...

nuff said

Indeed. The curve is so shallow at the gamma end of things that the industry points from the extension make bugger all difference. Try again at TMA.

I see.  I'll have to take a look and do a comparison again.  Ick.  lol. 

Thanks for the heads up and input guys.  smile  Basically I wasted my EP just to recycle on gamma.  lol  Any other industry things I should know about?  (I know nothing, however, if it's pertinent ...)

Thanks again.

-Ensi

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

you dont need any extensions for efficiency on gamma industry - only those that add lines or unlock stuff big_smile

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Recycling Extension is laughable ... :( Can I have my EP back? lol

Annihilator wrote:

you dont need any extensions for efficiency on gamma industry - only those that add lines or unlock stuff big_smile

Well ... crap.  I should have talked to the intelligent and experienced members of the game prior to raising my extensions.  sad

Can i get an account reset?  PLEASE?!  LOL

-Ensi