26 Reply by Perpetuum (edited by Perpetuum 2016-08-10 01:48:14)

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Line wrote:
Perpetuum wrote:

What I want is a light bot, that does DPS on par with the other lights (and Assaults with Assaults) that doesn't have the stupid specialization.  I want that moved to a different bot for a bot truly spec'ed for Detection. 
This breaks up the difficult balancing aspects of the game, moving them into subcategory's and balancing them out from their.

A detector should have neither a tank, or great masking, fast speed would be fine, but not the fastest.

IMO, that's more about separating such lights on 2 - one is for detection, one is for combat. Like, Castel is for DPS, and Shmastel for detecting. They can look the same, just have different stats and slots.

But that's still has nothing to do with Vektor speed nor Vektor itself.

Basically this, this is how it should be been from the get go.  It has everything to do with the Vektor as its a PVP bot in the *** game bud.

Starting to get people thinking now!

Jita's Demob idea is excellent if flushed out correctly, Sadly Annihilator is just stating the obvious again with no real solutions, drive on!

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Perpetuum wrote:

Basically this, this is how it should be been from the get go.  It has everything to do with the Vektor as its a PVP bot in the *** game bud.

Starting to get people thinking now!

Jita's Demob idea is excellent if flushed out correctly, Sadly Annihilator is just stating the obvious again with no real solutions, drive on!

I'll just show you:

Combat       | Detector
Castel          | ???
Yagel           | ???
Prometheus | ???
Vektor         | ???

Now you see? Vektor is not a detector bot for other 3 factions, it's in the same row. So for Vektor have everything to do with, it should have IT'S OWN detector twin, not being someone's else.

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

i dont understand that las one line...

castel is... demobber /detector
yagel is... useless / detector
prometheus is... detector / bait
vektor is.... detector

ikaros is ... transport

(just to make the list complete)

none of the current "light combats" is actually... combat fuuu

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

My humble opinion about syndicate bots.

"-":

1. No speed.
2. No resists.
3. No HP.
4. No accumulator.

"+":

Not found.

Summary: easy targets for any assaults/mechs.

P.S.: "No" = "Low".
P.S.S.: neutral hmm

30 Reply by Perpetuum (edited by Perpetuum 2016-08-10 19:10:53)

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Line wrote:
Perpetuum wrote:

Basically this, this is how it should be been from the get go.  It has everything to do with the Vektor as its a PVP bot in the *** game bud.

Starting to get people thinking now!

Jita's Demob idea is excellent if flushed out correctly, Sadly Annihilator is just stating the obvious again with no real solutions, drive on!

I'll just show you:

Combat       | Detector
Castel          | ???
Yagel           | ???
Prometheus | ???
Vektor         | ???

Now you see? Vektor is not a detector bot for other 3 factions, it's in the same row. So for Vektor have everything to do with, it should have IT'S OWN detector twin, not being someone's else.

Excatly!!!

Make it, its own faction.  Right on!

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Annihilator wrote:

i dont understand that las one line...

castel is... demobber /detector
yagel is... useless / detector
prometheus is... detector / bait
vektor is.... detector

ikaros is ... transport

(just to make the list complete)

none of the current "light combats" is actually... combat fuuu

I want to take a moment to say that this is incorrect.

How they are being used currently is semi true, but they are all versed in combat rolls, and have bonus for them when they are attacking in groups, or each other.  We must not get into this idea that we need to balance everything around attacking Mechs or higher.  This simply isn't the case.  Speed, and DPS is how you balance these things, make them able to kill another light or ewar on good terms and you would see more of them being used.  Currently all we see is fast tackle that cant be killed easily with a light, and it dies to a paper fit speed mech.  Now groupings would cure this example for sure, so we must not go overboard on all lights must kill mechs.

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

relying on "grouping" doesn't work.

first, in pvp that means "blobbing", and also, it means, you need to sacrifice many for killing one. that goas completely against the mentality of gamers and well... respawning at the other gameworld to participate again in the same battle.

that may work in an RTS game, but it does not in Perpetuum.

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

No ***.
How much good is a old Demob Zenith Mk2 solo?
Terrible.  With group, Awesome. 

This does not mean you put your head in the sand and ONLY look at solo interactions, but you must look at the bigger picture and different force multipliers. 

A single RR bot means nothing to a solo RR bot, you pair that with a team of personnel, its everything.
I care little to what you call teamwork or grouping, if you wish to use a good or bad term, it means little to the ones who use simple, or extraordinary fittings and tactics to beat the *** out of you.

All of us know this, this isn't new, this isn't on the cutting edge.

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Perpetuum wrote:

Excatly!!!

Make it, its own faction.  Right on!

But it's already it's own faction, isn't it?

Just think of it not like it's slow detector, but like it's very specific whatever our current lights are. I mean, if you want  armor tank - you go Prometheus. If you want shield tank - you go Castel. And if you want (let's call it for a moment) a hit evasibe tank - you go Vektor.

Besides of guns and tank each race has it's own racial bonuces. Greens lock faster and has no problemz with accu. Blues are fast and rep better. Sindybots are slow but masked and can see longer to compensate that, and you can put better stuff on them in terms of cpu/reactor usage, and so on. That's their own racial specific, along with hitsize. It's just not well-balanced yet.

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Imo, it all looks like ***.  Glad y'all are enjoying it.

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Line wrote:
Perpetuum wrote:

Excatly!!!

Make it, its own faction.  Right on!

But it's already it's own faction, isn't it?

Just think of it not like it's slow detector, but like it's very specific whatever our current lights are. I mean, if you want  armor tank - you go Prometheus. If you want shield tank - you go Castel. And if you want (let's call it for a moment) a hit evasibe tank - you go Vektor.

Besides of guns and tank each race has it's own racial bonuces. Greens lock faster and has no problemz with accu. Blues are fast and rep better. Sindybots are slow but masked and can see longer to compensate that, and you can put better stuff on them in terms of cpu/reactor usage, and so on. That's their own racial specific, along with hitsize. It's just not well-balanced yet.

You are correct in a sense, looking from a balance side its not.  Its way out in left field, the resists are messed up and makes no logical sense to kill or deal with.  From a outside view point its a "special" faction, I would rather see them be a normal faction.

Zoom has already stated he wanted a quirky weird store faction, I just disagree with this line of operation, as I look farther down the road to see the possibilities.

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Perpetuum wrote:

You are correct in a sense, looking from a balance side its not.  Its way out in left field, the resists are messed up and makes no logical sense to kill or deal with.  From a outside view point its a "special" faction, I would rather see them be a normal faction.

Zoom has already stated he wanted a quirky weird store faction, I just disagree with this line of operation, as I look farther down the road to see the possibilities.

IMO, balance it's like "let's fine-tune some parameters" rather than "let's throw them out". Zoom stated that Sindybots would come in small portions exactly because of possible rebalancing.

Main concept of Sindybots looks very promising woth al lthe current bonuses, it's just need some love.

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

I think zoom will barely change them and they will be as useless most of the other new content

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Jita wrote:

I think zoom will barely change them and they will be as useless most of the other new content

Line is right... zoom has announced that he will change the stuff AROUND them...

so lets see how long it takes him to double all dispersion attributes of ALL weapons as a first step

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Annihilator wrote:
Jita wrote:

I think zoom will barely change them and they will be as useless most of the other new content

Line is right... zoom has announced that he will change the stuff AROUND them...

so lets see how long it takes him to double all dispersion attributes of ALL weapons as a first step

I think you give him too much credit.

I'm scared to suggest anything I want because it's like he does something different from all the sensible suggestions just so he looks like he's got his own ideas.

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Jita wrote:

Its a bit underwhelming so far, I think they are trying to balance vs the t1 variants which will doom them to uselessness.

They should follow the Eve model of making them awesome, too good and overused before nerfing them in to oblivion.

Are they actually going to do some post-release balancing to these new bots?

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Burial wrote:
Jita wrote:

Its a bit underwhelming so far, I think they are trying to balance vs the t1 variants which will doom them to uselessness.

They should follow the Eve model of making them awesome, too good and overused before nerfing them in to oblivion.

Are they actually going to do some post-release balancing to these new bots?

They said so but they will only balance them vs what they think they should do. Unfortunately what they think they should do is useless.

It's really telling to see none of them in PvP, so far the only kill or loss was beast making sure he got the first loss.

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Jita wrote:

It's really telling to see none of them in PvP, so far the only kill or loss was beast making sure he got the first loss.

Vektor was used a few hours later to assist a kill of Beastmode too...

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Yeah novelty. Two appearances for a new not is awful. I'd love to run syndicate exclusive gangs and be a syndicate corp but the assault blows

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

So the new bots are worthless?

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Ville wrote:

So the new bots are worthless?

No, the assault is. The Icarus is fantastic and the best at a lot of roles. The new light is the best detector in the game. It's just the assault that is balanced vs T1 that sucks. And the wider issue that all the ewar mechs and heavies will be balanced vs T1 too.

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Re: Vektor is just too slow.

Jita wrote:
Ville wrote:

So the new bots are worthless?

No, the assault is. The Icarus is fantastic and the best at a lot of roles. The new light is the best detector in the game. It's just the assault that is balanced vs T1 that sucks. And the wider issue that all the ewar mechs and heavies will be balanced vs T1 too.

well, just like everything in game is balanced vs. T4...

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