1 (edited by DEV Zoom 2016-08-04 14:27:55)

Topic: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Beyond the introduction of the first wave of Syndicate robots, patch 3.8 will also include a few significant changes, so I felt like it deserves its own blog post.

http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … patch-3-8/

Patch notes:
http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2016-08-04

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

IMHO no matter how much you filter and post-process it... unless you implement Deferred Shading (or something better), you can only change the impression on minor level.

after all, even you play on max settings... you can hardly ever see something cast a shadow, because its either nighttime (50% of a daycycle ingame...), or everything is covered by the shadow cast by a tall building or hill.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Nice content. Why the hell are you not teasing and advertising. Adding stuff like this on top of new bots will not bring extra players. Adding it in between new bots will.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

I honestly can't tell a difference in lighting.

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Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk9XYQMRiLY

I get a good feeling, yeah

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Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

DEV Zoom wrote:

Beyond the introduction of the first wave of Syndicate robots, patch 3.8 will also include a few significant changes, so I felt like it deserves its own blog post.

http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … patch-3-8/

Another change that’s coming with the patch is the reduction of EP rewards for mining and harvesting from 1 EP per minute to 1 EP per 2 minutes on average (without bonuses). Based on our statistics, the amount of EP that players gained from mining and harvesting was too high, considering the effort and risk involved compared to other activities.


I would like to address a couple concerns to EP change regarding Mining and Harvesting. 

1.  Harvesting may be extremely uneventful and not dangerous; but it is a pita!  Find plants > drop a can (or fill cargo) > when plants are all harvested or cargo full > return to station to empty out or return to site to haul harvested goods back > REPEAT

2.  Mining items that are NOT liquid require you to move a lot!  Due to the nature of the Alpha tiles, they don't last long when you have good mining skills.  Before you know it, the field is empty and you're back to hunting down that next field of NON liquid. 

3.  I know combat pays a lot more for EP in regard to Mining and Harvesting.  Since combat pilots get EP per kill, that EP is based off the 'tier' of npc (if i recall correctly); therefore a Mesmer and a Vagabond of tier 3 pay the same even though the Vagabond can be a 1 alpha strike kill, the Mesmer not so much. 

4.  The real issue was players AFK'ing while mining liquids in a Scarab or Sequer with 1 mining module. 

I wonder, what were the EP gains were compared to.  Where they compared on Beta afk'ers?  Yes, i've seen em. 

Right now, my main issues is, i believe the EP change mining was mainly due to the lazy liquid miners.  So, instead of a fix just for liquid miners, you do an blanket fix for mining and harvesting.  They may be uneventful, but it's typically more work then combat without the danger (of Beta or Gamma).

-Ensi

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Change the slot to install modules transport robots. Forbid to install equipment the miners module and the extraction of organics. Points experience very much. If you cut down on their number as planned, it will be better.

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Ensireka wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Beyond the introduction of the first wave of Syndicate robots, patch 3.8 will also include a few significant changes, so I felt like it deserves its own blog post.

http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … patch-3-8/

Another change that’s coming with the patch is the reduction of EP rewards for mining and harvesting from 1 EP per minute to 1 EP per 2 minutes on average (without bonuses). Based on our statistics, the amount of EP that players gained from mining and harvesting was too high, considering the effort and risk involved compared to other activities.


I would like to address a couple concerns to EP change regarding Mining and Harvesting. 

1.  Harvesting may be extremely uneventful and not dangerous; but it is a pita!  Find plants > drop a can (or fill cargo) > when plants are all harvested or cargo full > return to station to empty out or return to site to haul harvested goods back > REPEAT

2.  Mining items that are NOT liquid require you to move a lot!  Due to the nature of the Alpha tiles, they don't last long when you have good mining skills.  Before you know it, the field is empty and you're back to hunting down that next field of NON liquid. 

3.  I know combat pays a lot more for EP in regard to Mining and Harvesting.  Since combat pilots get EP per kill, that EP is based off the 'tier' of npc (if i recall correctly); therefore a Mesmer and a Vagabond of tier 3 pay the same even though the Vagabond can be a 1 alpha strike kill, the Mesmer not so much. 

4.  The real issue was players AFK'ing while mining liquids in a Scarab or Sequer with 1 mining module. 

I wonder, what were the EP gains were compared to.  Where they compared on Beta afk'ers?  Yes, i've seen em. 

Right now, my main issues is, i believe the EP change mining was mainly due to the lazy liquid miners.  So, instead of a fix just for liquid miners, you do an blanket fix for mining and harvesting.  They may be uneventful, but it's typically more work then combat without the danger (of Beta or Gamma).

-Ensi

The Liquid, Ore, and Plants should have different EP rewards.
Which should be affected by amount of material mined.

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Nice screenshots smile

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Patch notes are now available:
http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2016-08-04

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

so, first impression:
- hitsize does not compensate lack of hitpoints http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/269643
- dark green just doesn't do it... needs to be same color as arkhe

right after udocking, i got a very long phase of low FPS... is that just my client or a common issue?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

That thing is a deathtrap without a shield and gang. Even then your so easily demobed to 0 its pointless.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Personally I think its DPS is decent and its hit size is pretty nice, but unlike say... the baphomet or the arbalist is identity and capability is more geared toward gang warfare and vs kains it is weighed down by the damage per shot vs low HP which I imagine as far as small hit size vs medium weapons go, will be looked into soon.

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Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Gekko wrote:
Ensireka wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Beyond the introduction of the first wave of Syndicate robots, patch 3.8 will also include a few significant changes, so I felt like it deserves its own blog post.

http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … patch-3-8/

Another change that’s coming with the patch is the reduction of EP rewards for mining and harvesting from 1 EP per minute to 1 EP per 2 minutes on average (without bonuses). Based on our statistics, the amount of EP that players gained from mining and harvesting was too high, considering the effort and risk involved compared to other activities.


I would like to address a couple concerns to EP change regarding Mining and Harvesting. 

1.  Harvesting may be extremely uneventful and not dangerous; but it is a pita!  Find plants > drop a can (or fill cargo) > when plants are all harvested or cargo full > return to station to empty out or return to site to haul harvested goods back > REPEAT

2.  Mining items that are NOT liquid require you to move a lot!  Due to the nature of the Alpha tiles, they don't last long when you have good mining skills.  Before you know it, the field is empty and you're back to hunting down that next field of NON liquid. 

3.  I know combat pays a lot more for EP in regard to Mining and Harvesting.  Since combat pilots get EP per kill, that EP is based off the 'tier' of npc (if i recall correctly); therefore a Mesmer and a Vagabond of tier 3 pay the same even though the Vagabond can be a 1 alpha strike kill, the Mesmer not so much. 

4.  The real issue was players AFK'ing while mining liquids in a Scarab or Sequer with 1 mining module. 

I wonder, what were the EP gains were compared to.  Where they compared on Beta afk'ers?  Yes, i've seen em. 

Right now, my main issues is, i believe the EP change mining was mainly due to the lazy liquid miners.  So, instead of a fix just for liquid miners, you do an blanket fix for mining and harvesting.  They may be uneventful, but it's typically more work then combat without the danger (of Beta or Gamma).

-Ensi

The Liquid, Ore, and Plants should have different EP rewards.
Which should be affected by amount of material mined.


Actually, that's not a bad idea.  However, I feel all non Beta / Gamma (do they have special liquids?) liquids should be dramatically lower for EP gains vs any physical activity type of mining / harvesting.

I do wonder how you would scale EP for mining non liquids and harvesting though ... by 'amount' could lead Vet's still scaling far beyond a newbie, albeit temporarily.

I would adopt this idea in a moment, just fyi.  Still makes you wonder though ... 

-Ensi

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Annihilator wrote:

so, first impression:
- hitsize does not compensate lack of hitpoints http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/269643
- dark green just doesn't do it... needs to be same color as arkhe

right after udocking, i got a very long phase of low FPS... is that just my client or a common issue?

Let's be honest ... FastCar is just a pos.  It would be nice if they forced bots to play their roles and not use a speed nexus trick that shouldn't even be available. 

I don't know what you expect though Anni, dirtbag is in a mk2 mech, you're in an assault.  hmm  Evasive module?  Likely still needs some balancing.

-Ensi

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Ensireka wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

so, first impression:
- hitsize does not compensate lack of hitpoints http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/269643
- dark green just doesn't do it... needs to be same color as arkhe

right after udocking, i got a very long phase of low FPS... is that just my client or a common issue?

Let's be honest ... FastCar is just a pos.  It would be nice if they forced bots to play their roles and not use a speed nexus trick that shouldn't even be available. 

I don't know what you expect though Anni, dirtbag is in a mk2 mech, you're in an assault.  hmm  Evasive module?  Likely still needs some balancing.

-Ensi

what i expect ?
medium magnetic weapons are the second worst weapons regarding precision, in number "7°"
~400 damage per shot every 5 seconds

vs. a locust, with max "1.85 m" hitsize, maybe less. and ~1700 hitpoints

thats a 26% chance to hit and ~4-5 salvos with a kain and no tunings

somewhere Zoom said their lack of resists and hitpoints shall be compensated by their hitsize bonus - and it doesn't.
he also said no MK2 versions, because they are already special enough.
equipping plates doesn't sound reasonable either, as plates negate any hitsize bonus to begin with.
small firearms are melee weapons.

i would expect that someone would need to field dedicated equipment to deal with it if it sacrifices a legslot for an evasion module. Instead its plain DPS again.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

On the adjustment on the post-processing effects:
The bloom is a little high..  I like that you can't see the horizon of the ocean meeting the sky at a painfully flat line, but the glow from the impassible-tile overlay and some of the other fog conditions just become a giant obnoxious glow of color.

It is important here to at least establish contrast, in what is in-focus, and fogged away.  If all the player sees is fog and foggier, it just feels like the whole game was put through a blur effect.  Some other games with 3rd person cameras show your character clearly and then fogs out from that point.  But if that is all locked in onto the camera's position then maybe its not worth rewriting.

I do like the real obfuscation the fog adds, will make pvp very interesting with people who know the terrain and those who dont.

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Annihilator wrote:
Ensireka wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

so, first impression:
- hitsize does not compensate lack of hitpoints http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/269643
- dark green just doesn't do it... needs to be same color as arkhe

right after udocking, i got a very long phase of low FPS... is that just my client or a common issue?

Let's be honest ... FastCar is just a pos.  It would be nice if they forced bots to play their roles and not use a speed nexus trick that shouldn't even be available. 

I don't know what you expect though Anni, dirtbag is in a mk2 mech, you're in an assault.  hmm  Evasive module?  Likely still needs some balancing.

-Ensi

what i expect ?
medium magnetic weapons are the second worst weapons regarding precision, in number "7°"
~400 damage per shot every 5 seconds

vs. a locust, with max "1.85 m" hitsize, maybe less. and ~1700 hitpoints

thats a 26% chance to hit and ~4-5 salvos with a kain and no tunings

somewhere Zoom said their lack of resists and hitpoints shall be compensated by their hitsize bonus - and it doesn't.
he also said no MK2 versions, because they are already special enough.
equipping plates doesn't sound reasonable either, as plates negate any hitsize bonus to begin with.
small firearms are melee weapons.

i would expect that someone would need to field dedicated equipment to deal with it if it sacrifices a legslot for an evasion module. Instead its plain DPS again.

Anni, Is that taking into consideration the Precision Firing Extension?  At level 10 it's an extra 30% chance to hit ... so, a 56% chance off the boot if I understand how to calculate this properly. 

Or is it 26 + (26 x .3) = 26 + 7.8 = 33.8% chance to hit? 

At level 10, the Locust has a -1 hit size, it starts off with 4 ... with a t4p evasive Module it drops the hit size from 4 to 2.8 - 1 (max bonus) = 1.8 ...

Maybe they need a bonus to evasive modules also?  Take them down to at the minimum 1.25.  However, seems like they need to be under 1.

The Chameleon starts off at 2.75 ... so, it should start off at 3 ...

-Ensi

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

There's also the evasion nexus.

20 (edited by Line 2016-08-05 12:24:49)

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Max (or min) hit size will be around 1.45. Med Gauss guns with top skills have something like 5 dispersion, which can be adjusted further with stabs. So it makes 29% hit chance for one single Gauss gun without stabs.  Oh yes and for that, Locust should have skills at max, Evasion module fitted, and under the Evasion Nexus effect. Without announced med weapons changes, that doesn't look good.

IMO, base value for Losuct could be reduced to 2.5m, Vektor - to 2.25m? that would make accordingly 15% and 10% hit chance without stabs. Which is good, isn't it?

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Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Guys this is bonuses not winning factor, like some more HP or resist.

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Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

ensireka / line... i was reading the the values off screen with maxed extensions

so a t4 med gun has a dispersion of 7 at max extension alone. sure you can fit a stab for further 30% less dispersion,
but that would fall under the category "dedicated counter equipment".
my math up there is from a tuning-less mk2 kain with promts vs. a max extension locust with a t4 evasive.

since the killmails do not include fits, just numbers, and me talking with the locust pilot prior the KM,
the fit was probably a hardener + evasive modules + lwf + evasive nexus on the locust,
and the kain mk2 most likely a t4 fit with magnedarts and at least one DPS tuning.

@Inda:
bonuses define roles. Zoom is about to review stuff... so whats the point in releasing bots with worthless bonuses?

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Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

What I would like to see is a racial bonus which reduced ROF by 75% and increased damage by 400%. This would make them glass cannons, give them a use in a pack and make shield fits viable.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

Jita wrote:

What I would like to see is a racial bonus which reduced ROF by 75% and increased damage by 400%. This would make them glass cannons, give them a use in a pack and make shield fits viable.

What's the point in machine guns then? Why don't you just install EM guns instead?

Point of the MG is fastest cycle, that makes them incompatible with shield fits. Implementing the changes you propose will just turn MGs into differently looking EM guns. Why would we need that?

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Re: New devblog: Patch 3.8

zoom - so we finally got "shadows at night"... great improvement

now... how long until we get deffered lighting or something similar... or hardware supported ambient occlusion?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear