Topic: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

As announced in the previous blog, we are developing 11 new robots belonging to the Syndicate faction. The first wave of these robots is just around the corner, so today we’ll take an in-depth look at them.

http://blog.perpetuum-online.com/posts/ … ts-wave-1/

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

That's a great blog, well done. I really do think you should space them out longer to give you guys more time to release something awesome but this is exactly what you need.

I'd tease and have one of the mech / heavies for the next blog and give it a couple of months with perhaps a balance patch in between. Its good to start with the small stuff. Skills extra is a start but bear in mind a million extra ep is less than a month passive work.

Overall great job and for god sake milk it. Your not going to get this on target again for a while

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

Good to see they comin soon!

For me the tokens price is really low, I would multiply them by 10.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

Token costs are based on current average market token prices. If they go down, we'll increase the token costs accordingly.

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

What about Ikarus has 40 U capacity, 20 U is the Mech Industrials reach, its vulnerable really, so I would vote for

40 U to Ikarus.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

Will there be something more that 900U? Or Sindybots would be worser in terms of capacity than Nian Indies?

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DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
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7 (edited by Gekko 2016-07-29 16:36:42)

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

But there's so many colors except green, yellow, black and blue which we already have roll
Why not the magenta, like Arkhe, for example?

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

Gekko wrote:

But there's so many colors except green, yellow, black and blue which we already have roll
Why not the magenta, like Arkhe, for example?

good point - why are they not magenta/fuchsia colored like the arkhe?

i am a bit worried about the "worth" of the evasion bonus.

Unless you make all medium weapons have 1.5 times the dispersion as now, IMHO evasion has no real impact on chance to hit.

instead it will only affect all those things that also depend on hitsize, like masking accumulator consumption, shield efficiency (i guess noone has yet posted a bugreport that the hitsize cap is not working as intended...) and explosion radius

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Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

Annihilator wrote:
Gekko wrote:

But there's so many colors except green, yellow, black and blue which we already have roll
Why not the magenta, like Arkhe, for example?

good point - why are they not magenta/fuchsia colored like the arkhe?

i am a bit worried about the "worth" of the evasion bonus.

Unless you make all medium weapons have 1.5 times the dispersion as now, IMHO evasion has no real impact on chance to hit.

instead it will only affect all those things that also depend on hitsize, like masking accumulator consumption, shield efficiency (i guess noone has yet posted a bugreport that the hitsize cap is not working as intended...) and explosion radius

I can tell you now that it won't be used for armor, its just too risky. It will make a decent shield tank alongside an evasive nexus and all the other possible ways to improve it. I'm more concerned about its damage and speed. Not sure zoom ran the numbers on possible damage output when compared with its competitors and the lack of low slots will really make a shield tank difficult as its so vulnerable to demob.

All in all I think the assault is a miss and won't be used other than novelty.

That said, apparently its still open to change. I'm not sure how open to balance ideas zoom is of course given what happened last time.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

jita - neither of them will be really used as combat DPS, as they lack the number of slots that comparable mk2 bots offer to fit LWF + Defense

small firearms have like zero range... 20% to optimal range of small fierams is like the 30% falloff range of blue bots...

DEV zoom - in numbers: a t4 small MG has 85m optimal range... 20% to that makes it 102m  - or in othe words, you extend the range by 1.5 TILES, now mix this up with the locking range and locking time you have without sensor amps, and figure out how long you have to "evade" the incomming DPS from anything  that has the time to concentrate on you.

i'm to lazy to check how beneficial it could be to use medium MGs on those new bots, but i guess they simply don't have enough reactor to do so...

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Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

Put some syndicate PvP ammo in the Passive SAPs.

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

When making a balance argument, compare apples to apples.

Not Mk1 vs Mk2.

I ran my numbers last night.  Still working the math on suggested changes.

I am Perpetuum.

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

The real killer for this assault is how vulnerable to demobs it will be.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

those assaults will take their niche. you will see.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

15 (edited by Perpetuum 2016-07-30 04:47:27)

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

Here are the changes I would make, this is more of a overall balance pass. This focuses on good overall dynamics of speed, opening speed ranges, locking ranges, and using guns (EM, Laser, Missile, Ballistic) to move in a solid direction.

PDF - Link

Open Office Sheet - Link

Both Light, and Light Ewar would need speed tweaks for this to fit into everything correctly.  But this could be done in increments with the end goal of slowing down mechs and heavy mechs.   Done though select speed ups of lighter bots, and small incremental slow downs on heavy mechs.  Mechs, and Mech Ewar falling in the middle.

Why do want it this way?  This opens up Mk2 bots for different things, and if these are accepted within the community I can take those ideas.  Those that  latch onto Zoom's original specialized bot ideas, and move them forward with balance suggestions and newish bot boni.

I am Perpetuum.

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

For this patch I have only tested the 4 lights and 4 assaults against each other and the only thing I thought was needed is some damage boost for the Pelistals (I chose to change the missile cycle bonus from 1% to 3% for both the Castel and the Waspish), and a slight nerf for the Prometheus' armor (850 to 800).

As mentioned in the blog speed will be looked at a bit later, but changing around the armor resistances like you suggest is worth considering.

17 (edited by BeastmodeGuNs 2016-07-30 14:49:12)

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

DEV Zoom wrote:

For this patch I have only tested the 4 lights and 4 assaults against each other and the only thing I thought was needed is some damage boost for the Pelistals (I chose to change the missile cycle bonus from 1% to 3% for both the Castel and the Waspish), and a slight nerf for the Prometheus' armor (850 to 800).

As mentioned in the blog speed will be looked at a bit later, but changing around the armor resistances like you suggest is worth considering.

Interesting, maybe consider nerfing the demob resist bonus of arbalist  and it's MK2 variant? The rebalancing patch lost the arbalist diversity as a large majority of the time people only run the demob immune fits. sure they are a little slower but still can outrun mechs with proto or T2 weapons fit and be completely demob immune with enough power to kill any assault or light ewar other then other similiarly fit arbalist that go near it, if you need a fit for testing Zoom, ask. We(the community members who have used arbalist MK2s since rebalancing) can get you some variations im sure.

Also waspish and MK2 varient should maybe receive small optimal range buff, the thing that gave the waspish it's signature was its ability to kite other bots but have the slowest speed compared to the other assaults. So a little buff, NOT back to the same level as prior to the rebalancing, but enough to allow it to fulfill the roll it had as a kiting missile platform that could be caught but ofc do some damage first.

Look into the two above and assaults should be more balanced and more diverse in use again hopefully.

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Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

zoom - do you know how your resist system works ?
you have mentioned somethin in that blog...

beast:
i still think the best bonus for a waspish would be a by far better slope ability then any other bot (or since the new syndicate bot uses the same legs, i would give that one the same advantage)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

As for the suggestion that I made above.  This will only work IF speed changes are made with said patch. 
Reason being ballistics need speed to get into range, they also need speed for the increased mass of the guns.  This is why we have a 3 kph difference between each color.  This is small enough to allow for open fittings, yet large enough for those variations to mean something strategically.

Here Is a updated sheet showing if you make the armor changes, of what I suggest to do with ammo types.  The big thing is to move the standard types to what is on the sheet.  More freedom with the Two faction ammo types, I feel is just fine.  Those SHOULD be quirky and different.

Suggestions

  • + or - Ammo Reload Time

  • + or - Weapon Dispersion

  • Small Energy Neuting Effect

  • Small Demob Effect

  • + or - ROF

  • + or - Falloff Range

  • + or - Optimal Range

  • + or - Weapon Energy Consumption

I am Perpetuum.

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

Perpetuum wrote:

, they also need speed for the increased mass of the guns.  This is why we have a 3 kph difference between each color.  This is small enough to allow for open fittings, yet large enough for those variations to mean something strategically.

thats where you f*ked up. because of the higher mass of the weapons, pelistals need more base mass, or those freaking missile launchers need to have their mass beeing reduced.

also, if you want to make suggestions, why don't you make it under your main? fuuu

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Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

See in the PDF that was linked how the mass is green?

That is used as your balancing tool post patch.  No *** on my end, I am quite aware of masses and what they tend to do to speeds.

I am Perpetuum.

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

DEV Zoom wrote:

For this patch I have only tested the 4 lights and 4 assaults against each other and the only thing I thought was needed is some damage boost for the Pelistals (I chose to change the missile cycle bonus from 1% to 3% for both the Castel and the Waspish), and a slight nerf for the Prometheus' armor (850 to 800).

As mentioned in the blog speed will be looked at a bit later, but changing around the armor resistances like you suggest is worth considering.

You think you're doing robot balance, i understand, but i saw you only make robots useless most the times. Check, play the game.

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

Line wrote:

those assaults will take their niche. you will see.

Qft

Zoom nice work on the blogs great effort.

Only down side I'm  seeing is AC inability to use a buff batt instead of the nerf batt. I congratulate you on the wasp buff that's a step in the right direction. I like your thinking of single class balancing and I hope you look at cross class balanced  buffs and nerfs in the end. I'm  not  asking for assaults to solo heavies but I want to have the choice to engage or not and not get one shot. Please look deeper at the hit size mechanics vs alpha strikes of heavies on assaults, as fun as it is to one-shot assault classes it shouldn't  happen to vets or noobs alike.

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Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

Lobo wrote:

but I want to have the choice to engage or not and not get one shot. Please look deeper at the hit size mechanics vs alpha strikes of heavies on assaults, as fun as it is to one-shot assault classes it shouldn't  happen to vets or noobs alike.

Yes this is something I plan to specifically look into. Maybe a bigger difference is needed between the hit size of lights/assaults and the accuracy of medium weapons.

Re: New devblog: Syndicate robots - Wave 1

DEV Zoom wrote:
Lobo wrote:

but I want to have the choice to engage or not and not get one shot. Please look deeper at the hit size mechanics vs alpha strikes of heavies on assaults, as fun as it is to one-shot assault classes it shouldn't  happen to vets or noobs alike.

Yes this is something I plan to specifically look into. Maybe a bigger difference is needed between the hit size of lights/assaults and the accuracy of medium weapons.

well, thats a good idea,
but you have to look at the implications that come with that too. especially with shields, medium accumulators and ewar that has 100% chance to hit and no LoS restriction that does not have any penalty from beeing boosted by rangextenders wink

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