1 (edited by Ville 2016-03-18 16:34:00)

Topic: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

Let's get realistic.

When 5 to 9 people can harass the entire server there is something fundamentally wrong.

Why can they do that?  Because they have nothing better to do with their time.  It's what veterans do when they reach end game.

What we need:  obtainable upgrades to get veterans doing more PVE and less PVP.  Here are a listen of easily fixable upgrades to QoL things in Perpetuum:

1.  We need existing models of robots fully renamed, given a different role and fill a specific role.  For example:
Termis should have its repair bonus removed.  Copy the model call it a Villebot2000 and design it's roles specifically to be remote repair, and given it non *** bonuses.  Like shield absorption, repair, locking time bonus.  Things that make it LESS modules based where players are forced to place a specific module like sensors amp on the robot and give it more flexibility. 
2.  We need 3 more gamma islands.
3.  We need to move atleast 1 gamma island close to alpha.
4.  Beta 2s need alpha access.  Your choking the game down to 3 bottle necks with 2 entrys.  2 entrys are fine but beta 2s need not be cut off from the world.
5.  Beta 2s need an NPC terminal on them like four months ago.  While your at it.  Please add 1 more outpost that can be player captured too. (Long term development I know)
6.  Heavys need a straight 36 kph reduction.  You have highways EVERYWHERE, the deference between a tanked demob immune Mesmer mk2 and a demob immune arbalest mk2 is 15 kph.  If the Mesmer mk2 gets velocity it is FASTER THAN AN ASSAULT!!!!!!!!!!  This is insane!  If you want to move a heavy it should take time to do it!
7.  Outpost locking should be limited to 1 station per corporation.
8.  Gammas should get very very small epriton fields.  Like 5 million in each field.  Your market is dead, why's it dead?  Your bottlenecking high end ores with very few producers.  Gamma can be defended by small end corporations!  Giving them a shot at epriton without constantly being caught between sap warfare will go a long way!  It might be good for gameplay if your termis dies everyday to players but at some point the person dieing says *** this I'm going to go do something that isn't going to met me with 0 gain.
9.  T1 gamma stuff needs to come back on the market.
10.  Alpha 1s need to be fully npc seeded.  Excluding T4+, T2+ and black robots.  It's time for a little developer interaction on the market.  Stop thinking the player driven economy will fix itself.  At this point it's screwed.
11.  We need a high risk, high reward drop.  Syndicate supply drops into 1 zone with a message that can be seen server wide something that can net 250 million worth of profit but everybody and their mother knows where it is.
12.  We need PVE events on alpha that yield bonuses everyone can work for.  You Already have the mechanic.  Station stability for alpha.  At 25,50 and 100% stability islands get mining bonuses.  Plant destruction sap outside the station and have it trigger waves of mobs to come shoot the sap And any player that aggresses it.  Passive sap.  Spawn waves of mobs (red) that come to the passive.  Same for specimen and active.  And the bonuses can be a flat mining/harvest/engineering bonuses on alpha!  Make it PVE focused and not PVP focused.

These are QoL things that can drastically improve gameplay.  And pull in more people!  We are at March, (I know there's a ton of bugs you had to fix after the big mission patch) but the only thing we have gotten is a syndicate supply shop.  It added content, people played and fell off the bandwagon.  Let's get them back playing!

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2 (edited by Inda 2016-03-18 16:35:55)

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

quick read,

nr12 is get a huge plus 1 from me!
the  rest also viable options.

I will react more hopefully later.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

Big fat YES to number 8!

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

Also Siege Modules and Intrusion 3.0

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Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

6. never!

Just @ Game

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

I don't know which particular players you are referring. I also missed any action and my peace stayd intact so I don't get the reference.

The flipside of not having any meaningful impact if you are not a part of a 10 player band would also be pretty broken.

The reasoning behind 2 and 3 would be essential and I just fail to see why.

8 I can be symphathetic to the idea but I actually disagree that it would be good. I highlight that its the beta hlders that are doing the blocking and not the designers. The role would more properly be filled by colixium but currently its irrelevant to anybody that doesn't want to be in gamma and even then only actually relevant to those that are expanding their bases. Also not everything needs the iron price to be paid for it. Sometimes the gold price is results in interesting things.

9 symphatetic but still disagreeing. Gamma stuff has an exception to the usual prototype paradigm making it super easy to talk/deal your way into gamma start rather than prototyping. I get that its not so bulk goods as the rest of items but its pretty much all or nothing with them. The special case could be handled differently. For example having a version of the item that costs even slightly more than the standard version but can't be reverse engineered could be interesting.

10. Disagree and I hope you don't mean anything higher T than T1. I think the seeding would actually need more structuring that players would actually appriciate (as in NIC price differential) when availability is provided. Or T1 seeding could correspond with taking seeding away from alpha2s. The availability difference could be implemented by seeding price differences also.

Most of the items are not easy or straightforwardly agreeable.

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

PvE content has been missing for some time and a BIG reason, I believe, why we can't retain players to stay in the game for any length of time.

Gamma/PvP takes money and/or a corp that can fund/support you.

Bottom line, without PvE content/drops there is no viable game to get players to end game content.

Lonwolf
NSE
"What we do in life, echoes into eternity!" --Gladiator

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

Lonwolf wrote:

PvE content has been missing for some time and a BIG reason, I believe, why we can't retain players to stay in the game for any length of time.

Gamma/PvP takes money and/or a corp that can fund/support you.

Bottom line, without PvE content/drops there is no viable game to get players to end game content.

and then, some ask why devs suddenly work on NPC AI and mechanics... forgetting that the game is meant to be a "sandbox", yet the current AI is on the level of a low grade asian grinder themepark game...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

Annihilator wrote:
Lonwolf wrote:

PvE content has been missing for some time and a BIG reason, I believe, why we can't retain players to stay in the game for any length of time.

Gamma/PvP takes money and/or a corp that can fund/support you.

Bottom line, without PvE content/drops there is no viable game to get players to end game content.

and then, some ask why devs suddenly work on NPC AI and mechanics... forgetting that the game is meant to be a "sandbox", yet the current AI is on the level of a low grade asian grinder themepark game...

There is nothing wrong with the AI, only the expectation of AI. Because it takes so long to kill the enemy they look dumb just approaching or standing there, If they died faster and there were more of them it wouldn't be as dull an experience. The trouble is, the NPC's are the same mech and bot type as us and so there is an expectation that they have the same strength as their type can do.

If you play a game like Archage or most theme park MMO's the NPC's are not some brainy amazing AI enemies. Even in EVE they are dumb as hell and do the same shizzle as here.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

Jita wrote:

There is nothing wrong with the AI, only the expectation of AI. Because it takes so long to kill the enemy they look dumb just approaching or standing there, If they died faster and there were more of them it wouldn't be as dull an experience. The trouble is, the NPC's are the same mech and bot type as us and so there is an expectation that they have the same strength as their type can do.

If you play a game like Archage or most theme park MMO's the NPC's are not some brainy amazing AI enemies. Even in EVE they are dumb as hell and do the same shizzle as here.

long time ago, i already asked the DEVs to make up their mind, either having NPCs that look like players, also doing the same thing as player, (for that upgrade the AI)
or have NPCs that represent nothing but lifestock and use completely DIFFERENT robot models as the player,

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

Annihilator wrote:
Jita wrote:

There is nothing wrong with the AI, only the expectation of AI. Because it takes so long to kill the enemy they look dumb just approaching or standing there, If they died faster and there were more of them it wouldn't be as dull an experience. The trouble is, the NPC's are the same mech and bot type as us and so there is an expectation that they have the same strength as their type can do.

If you play a game like Archage or most theme park MMO's the NPC's are not some brainy amazing AI enemies. Even in EVE they are dumb as hell and do the same shizzle as here.

long time ago, i already asked the DEVs to make up their mind, either having NPCs that look like players, also doing the same thing as player, (for that upgrade the AI)
or have NPCs that represent nothing but lifestock and use completely DIFFERENT robot models as the player,

The second method is a LOT easier to code but you are going to need more models that we have. The method of locking doesn't lend to the second method either, to make it truly work you would need AOE weapons, autolocking the next target, a much closer camera position and the kind of fluid re spawn and destroy speed that makes the game really clicky.

It could all be done using current mechanics and code and is just one of about three or four different things which are code light and would transform pve for the better. Will it happen? Hell no. In the last two years how many suggestions were implemented from features and discussion? They may as well shut that forum and the balancing one too.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

thats the other thing...
dunno what former EVE player leads to perpetuum these days,
but back in the early days, the major factor was the "twitch" factor that perpetuum provides: LoS and destructible cover.

those factors have been ignored, and in many patches beeing ruined.
tracking - removed
speed differences between robots - negliable in most cases
demobs - a red flag in twitch-based gameplay
destructible cover - plants have lots of hitpoints, but seldomly grant any cover at ranges you can see them
accumulator management - all robots are more or less cap-stable using their weapons only
rock-paper-scissor resistances and damage types vs. pvp ammo - a joke

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

My 12 cents.

1. Agreed, more variety would be nice - but too much specialisation and were killing the soloing aspect. I would like to see troiar changed tho - move 2 hand slots into head.
2. Certainly - tho I would love to see some of those without possibility to build on them and really hard  NPC spawns (and possibly rewarding?) also - artificing anyone?
3.  We definitely need an island in the middle of nia connecting 3 main islands (to compensate for spark teleports) and if there would be a terminal it would become a main trading hub in game (with current state of market we dont need it being split in 3)
4. Disagreeing on this one. Its hard enough to find PvP anyways. And one actually can acces them from alpha. Their "separation" also makes them more avaiable to newer players due to low traffic.
5. A small number of field terminals would do it.
6. Remove the demob resistance on plates and make separate mod for demob res. Assaults would not have to fit oversized plates then.
7. This would only create smurf/alt corps to do it instead and create confusion.
8. Beta doesnt have a reliable noralgis - one needs to "ninja" plant it. The same way non corp people mine epriton on beta.
9. As much as I would love that myself I think it should remain a tad end-game.
10. My thoughts in answer no.3
11. +1
12.  Make it based on Total NPC kills on island per day (simplified) granting bonuses for each tier, and reducing 1 tier every 8:00 a.m. serwer time. Indywiduals could also get achievements(titles?) for clearing hordes of NPC granting them bonuses (PvE only or else its a requirement instead of possibility).

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

Lists are good and organize ideas +1

1.  Bots with dedicated roles + more bots with more dedicated roles = yes (+1)
2-5. Increased island connectivity and variety of connectivity increases opportunity for offense, making locking islands for defense harder.  Maybe an island in the center (with special PVE content like in #12, or mroq's idea to centralize market) to decrease time between factions, and make betas and gammas also connect in a circle around alpha, so that there are lateral faction neighbors, exposing betas and gammas to assault directly from neighboring islands.  Basically more space and more opportunities for more, different, entities to do things on beta/gamma +1
6.  +1 Heavy speed is its own form of power projection
7.  +1 its worth a try
8.  +1 Gamma needs more reward, risk is high enough
9.  +1 if more accessible gammas appear, non-vet entities should get a fair chance with provided standard buildings
10.  -1 makes me sad, player-driven economy is something i think a lot of people like about this game, the lack of supply is a shame.  Perhaps there is another solution here
11.  +1 awesome idea from the roadmap.  Needs to happen.
12.  +1 awesome idea that have similarities to things in many other feature threads that most everyone agrees would be awesome and drive activity.

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

Any feedback is appreciated!  Even if it's negative towards the ideas!

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

My only feedback is that in two years I can't think of anything player suggested that has been done.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

Jita wrote:

My only feedback is that in two years I can't think of anything player suggested that has been done.

thats just because your memory doesn't reach far back to early beta suggestions big_smile

also, the current chokepoint teleport grid design is defenately a result of the suggesetions of elite veteran PvP player, that know how the game works, and what the game needs, from within the last two years.

regarding the "bots with dedicated roles"... at this point, the only reasonable result, would be bots with fixed equipment, and only tuner slots.
switching from omnimechs back to fixed role mechs.

about the one outpost per corp:
your suggestion lacks depth. there is nothing wrong with one corp beeing able to have more outpost. actually its a necessary content. hard-limiting to a fixed number is very nearsighted.
*to lazy to write that again in detail*

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

I'd prefer omnibots, like we have now. It's more flexible and interesting this way, even if everyone will use the same modules for certain roles. And the same model for actually different robots will look as a terrible quality of product.

But of course, we want new toys. But they should be really new. Like flying robots, Larger, or modular ones...

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

If they could get a 3D artist on board then yeah.

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

i could imagine new glider bots beeing implemented to be rather simple.

the problem is the DEVs inability to add a procedural heightmap-layer ontop of the existing one (commonly called "displacement" map), to make gliding bots have different slopes, impassable terrain and make them dive below "bridges" to be able to use teleports and outposts.

after that, there would be the question of balance, but if you consider that gliding bots would also be far above regular terrain, the most obvious disadvantage of them would be their vulnerability to AAA, aka HCL lasers.

bot-mesh wise... i could imagine a bit kitbashing with exiting ingame models would allow a few variants (eg. just give the waspish a rotor and with the medium side slots it looks like a bad-ass helicopter.

TL;DR - a Z-offset calculated from the terrain and whats "growing" ontop of it, with override-decals where decorational buildings are just doesn sound that complicated.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

Ville he is generator useless proposals. big_smile

we need new players! its problem devs, not our. just a game smile

Just @ Game

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

balancing content for the convenience of some people is does not work, need some new events and stuff. balancing it's a steps back.

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

What u talking, whatever they are doing seems to be working right?

Re: Baseline content needed like yesterday.

I think it is better to have new players, new stuff and the balancing, without excuses.
But that's just me smile