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The current mechanic dont encourage teamplays, and squads to do missiosn together!
I just cry about it.
And just didnt mention to have to leave the squad at Beta.
PS: did I not mention the tokens?
amen
With proper management you save quite a lot on walking. Previously it seemed that you cried after explicit multipliers for teamplay. But its better if the benefits come from, you know, actually working as a team. To me its still open question whether the current system supports teams racking in signficantly more than they would individually.
Well, we dont do missions together in corp, that means that is not worth to do together.
End of story.
With proper management you save quite a lot on walking. Previously it seemed that you cried after explicit multipliers for teamplay. But its better if the benefits come from, you know, actually working as a team. To me its still open question whether the current system supports teams racking in signficantly more than they would individually.
you may save a bit of the walking part with some missions, yet you still have to form a squad specifically for that mission, because any agent in squad that does NOT contribute to the mission, will lower the reward.
especially when the squad exceeds 10 agents.
the reward scales up to 10 player, with a "squad bonus" extra.
but if you have a squad of 20 player, with only 5 contributing, you get only 25% of the total reward possible, aka less as if you did it solo.
That is more of the effect of adopting the squad mechanic for a purpose I din't think it was originally designed for. Its kinda wierd that players that are not working on related tasks are in the same squad, althought the shared visibility and such are a concrete upside ot the arrangement. One of the solutions would be to provide this needed funcitonality with a feature spesifically taylored for such need. You could for example have a toggle on "show position to congloramate" check box somewhere. Althought I guess if it means implementing congloramates it could be somewhat much work. One could also nuke the megasquads by having a extension of squad member size. However the impact to regular PvP ops could be more negative than the positive impact on missioning.
The issues isn't so much that you have to leave squad but that doing missions as part of a passive mega-squad or genuinely alone means squads of up to 10 already counts as "incentivicing cooperation". However it is right to recognise that this fails to hit what is intended. On the other hand the mission system needs to know at acceptance whether to generate a solo or multiplayer mission. Mission rewards can use the information who actually contributed but the mission handout has not got similar information to exploit.
Well, we dont do missions together in corp, that means that is not worth to do together.
End of story.
By this logic, if I am not picking bills from the floor, it means there are none to pick. Its just the case that there are some surface features that discourage you to really test it out and you make the general assumption that if the design has surface of it "broken" its a decent guess that the fundamentals can't be in essentially better shape. But ETHOS isn't exactly a paragon of rational behaviour and perpetuum players in general are not well approximated by homo economicus NIC maximisers. For example if the devs increased PvP area payout to offset the irrational risk-aversion of players the NIC income would be truly lobsided. The standard of "audience acceptance" would be poor there and I claim it would be poor here for similar reasons.
Rolafen you don't know what you are talking about. Two people doing missions solo make more money than two doing them together in a squad. Thsi is the same for three, four and onwards. That is even before tokens where there is zero increase in squad missions.
That's stupid and needs changing.
Jita, what you are refererencing holds only if the missioners do their missions whole independent with the hardness multipliers or just gang-up on one of the squadmates missions at a time. However for some missions more group focused strategies are available. I am actually worried there might be a fundamental flaw in the other direction that it is too lucrative with no easy fix on it. But given that others don't even acknowledge its possibility I figured I would walk the talk by turning on said NIC faucets to experimentally verify that it indeed is so.
If your worried then report it instead of talking opaque nonsense. If there is a mission type that gives more than 75m an hour per character used I'd be very surprised.
I dont even udnerstand why the DEVs didnt fix that already. Or even no answer.
NOW: no teamplay
AFTER: teamplay => and that means more PVP later => that means more live in Perpetuum
ok, i understand the amount of nic that was generated was stupid, however, did anyone else think that the economy was doing better with people able to make nic?
ok, i understand the amount of nic that was generated was stupid, however, did anyone else think that the economy was doing better with people able to make nic?
Yeah the problem wasn't the nic it was the sinks
idk 500m for T4+ seems like a huge sink. we're talking 9 Billion in just 1 black seth
idk 500m for T4+ seems like a huge sink. we're talking 9 Billion in just 1 black seth
It wasn't the nic sinks that were the problem, it was nic to token ratio. Now getting 100k tokens generates about a billion nic. Then it was close to 6 billion. That meant every black bit in the game added 3.5 billion in nic with no appreciable sinks other than the token shop.
What we asked for was this to be fixed, not the mission payouts. This could be done by reducing token cost and / or increasing token payout.
Our specific suggestion was to increase token payout to 600 for a level 6 and decrease token cost by 25%.
i think the dev's have given up and are just milking it now.
There certainly hasn't been much progress. The list of small changes that was supposed to have been done by the end of the year is maybe a quarter in to it if that?
I assume they need the same breaks during development that we need in playing.
rolafan,
the original squad system was designed to have a maximum number of members, with extensions expanding how many you can group up. (something from 5-20 agents if i remember correctly.
that was ditched early on, but the real crazyness started with the implementation of squad-only features that should have been mirrored to corp and conglomerates. - namely seeing each other on the map, and having health and accumulator status visible.
last but not least, an easy to manage chat channel
just because of those three features!!! everyone is always in a squad. and there all issues with missions have started
The current mechanic dont encourage teamplays, and squads to do missiosn together!
I just cry about it.
And just didnt mention to have to leave the squad at Beta.
PS: did I not mention the tokens?
It not only doesn't encourage team play it actively discourages it. I'm forced to leave squad every time. The rewards are kind of lackluster but since the NPC farming nerfs it's the only thing you can do on Alpha. I can make far more money mining/harvesting/artifacting on Beta/Gamma but when I'm tired after work on a week day and I don't want to have to think/worry about it that's where I'm going; back to 100% safe Alpha.
just because of those three features!!! everyone is always in a squad. and there all issues with missions have started
Not exactly true, squad mission shortly after patch only 1 agent could get all the squad rewards if no one was participating, that was not intended and has nothing to do with everyone being forced in squad that's another matter needed to be fixed.
Look, the mission system is bad at it's core nothing has changed they have just added some make-up to an ugly chick. The missions are too short, easy and repetetive (aka boring as fcuk) . The game should focus more on getting players engaged in group play but not be forced to. Group play tends to retain more players.
The best way but hardest is to have special instance mission islands where player can jump to in groups and clear part or all the whole island that can take hours solo but done in a groups can take far less time for same rewards, and there is the incentive.
The game should focus more on getting players engaged in group play but not be forced to. Group play tends to retain more players.
Completely disagree. Almost everything is designed around forced grouping. I just don't think people should be punished for grouping while doing missions, which is how it is currently.
Easy!
Give tokens and rewards to participants. Miracle will happen!
Celebro wrote:The game should focus more on getting players engaged in group play but not be forced to. Group play tends to retain more players.
Completely disagree. Almost everything is designed around forced grouping. I just don't think people should be punished for grouping while doing missions, which is how it is currently.
I did mention it should not be forced. It's still an MMO after all and if you prefer solo there are a whole bunch of solo games out there. I still don't mind solo but I am probably the exception, most players when in groups will stay longer playing, that has been proven in Eve.
I did mention it should not be forced. It's still an MMO after all and if you prefer solo there are a whole bunch of solo games out there. I still don't mind solo but I am probably the exception, most players when in groups will stay longer playing, that has been proven in Eve.
You can't PvP in a single player game. As it is, I think you can solo easily now if you're willing to spend real money for NIC. But if you actually want to do it all in game it's been a mostly downhill slope for the soloist with a few bright spots like Artifact Scanning. I've spent the majority of my time in game solo, even while in well known corps.
GUYS this is INSANE.
How you can be at BETA without be in squad..
I have the whole corp at Beta and the rest is outside of the squad. That is NO WAY!
GUYS this is INSANE.
How you can be at BETA without be in squad..
I have the whole corp at Beta and the rest is outside of the squad. That is NO WAY!
Agreed.
I even agree with what Jita said about the payouts. After running a couple hundred t5 transports and some t4 combat on the pay is pretty pathetic. I like the mechanics better now and having the terminals just the rewards (even with maxed extensions) pale compared to other things like artifacting on Gamma or harvesting Nora. Hell mining Titan on Alpha probably pays better per hour it's just not auto-pilotable 
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