Topic: Intrusion 3.0

Current mechanics are mess and random - to effectively defend an outpost, owner should be online each 8-16 hours which isn't always possible and doesn't guarantee fights at all - it's still too easy to avoid the SAP fights and still take the ownership - like 10 tousands of monkeys typing random text sooner or later will type Shakespear poem, said attackers hitting saps just in safe timezone will sooner or later get enough lucky to decrease more stability than an owner can raise in his timezone. Such a mechanic can be easily replaced with simple dice roll throwing out odds or evens each 8 hours.

I want fights, I want to be sure that the one who has decided to conquer my outpost will do it on battlefield instead of hiding in shadows of different timezones. But how to achieve that?

Once upon a times we had an old good Intrusion 1.0 system which allowed us to choose suitable timeframe for fights with the mechanic called "Intrusion Tokens". So here is how we can use it combining with what we have now, or, "Intrusion 3.0"

Stability, auras and outpost facility and lock controls remains the same - they are fine. What's being changed - is SAP system. Let me show you that on puppets.

Corporation A controls an outpost. Corporation B decides to conquer it. B scans for intrusion, and if it's suitable, signs for it. Signing, like earlier, cost some NIC (like 50kk NIC, or 5k tokens of appropriate color, or both). Corporation A gets notification about that and, if it wants to defend, signs for intrusion aswell (same price or 50% off as an owner). Now, when SAP is coming out, both attacker and defender can complete it just like we do now - atacker will decrease, and defender will increase stability, and that's it - there is no more other way to change stability (again, same as we do now). If A was successful in defending, it earns 1 Intrusion Token (and that is the only way to get it - sign in and defend the sap). Later, B decides to attack once more, but time isn't suitable for A so they decided to use Intrusion Token to protect their SAP - completing such protected SAP by either A or B will not result in any stability change.

Now imagine there is Corporation C that doesn't want an ownership at all but only SAP loot. C just comes and completes the SAP without sighing for it - and that drops the loot but doesn't change stability. A and B can do the same, and, as we have it now, SAP timeout doesn't produce loot - just SAP completing does.

Oh yes, and owner can have just limited amount of Protection Tokens - like, one per outpost or one per island. And of course, yellow outposts would require yellow Protection Tokens

So tl;dr;

  • New NIC and Token sink

  • PvE gets more meaning (you either grind tokens for intrusions or buy from someone else grinding)

  • Greedy and limitations prevents Protection Tokens grinding (hey, 5k assignment tokens it's 1/20 of Black Bot!)

  • Greedy and limitations also prevent one corp from owning few outposts - they will be unable to protect them all with tokens and too greedy to spend lots of tokens on signing for participating

  • Both owner and atacker have to fight for outposts

  • Owner have timezone advantage (hey, I'm an owner, m'kay. I should have MORE rights on my stuff than that other dude. And that includes choosing appropriate timeframe)

  • Attacker can't anymore conquer an outpost without any shot

  • Ninja SAP looters still get their cortexes and TAPs and can even have small scale PvP with other SAP loot hunters

  • Intrusion 3.0 uses pieces of Intrusion 1.0 and 2.0 so it's easier to implement than some brand new system

That's what we need.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
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Re: Intrusion 3.0

Hmmm...

Re: Intrusion 3.0

-1 I think this would encourage laziness and would to lead to stations not flipping very much at all. Imagine 1 corp that holds multiple stations knowing each and every time an enemy was going to come to challenge for control of a station. Batphone everyone and deploy. Only those with the most people wins discouraging new and smaller corps to even participate.

Re: Intrusion 3.0

This is pretty much intrusion mk1 which was a better system.

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Re: Intrusion 3.0

Aye Pod wrote:

-1 I think this would encourage laziness and would to lead to stations not flipping very much at all. Imagine 1 corp that holds multiple stations knowing each and every time an enemy was going to come to challenge for control of a station. Batphone everyone and deploy. Only those with the most people wins discouraging new and smaller corps to even participate.

Current mechanics doesn't prevent batphoning at all. Just bring more people while your enemy is sleeping or at work and win not loosing a bot

Quit being PvE and fight for saps

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Intrusion 3.0

Line wrote:

Current mechanics doesn't prevent batphoning at all. Just bring more people while your enemy is sleeping or at work and win not loosing a bot

Quit being PvE and fight for saps

I could say quit being lazy and just undock to see if there is a fight. If your people are not all there then thats your bad guess you didnt want the station. I wont though because Im trying not to be confrontational.

I will agree with you though that the current sap mechanics need to be changed. Tweaked but not totally changed.

7 (edited by Aye Pod 2016-02-18 20:27:38)

Re: Intrusion 3.0

Jita wrote:

This is pretty much intrusion mk1 which was a better system.


I wasnt involved enough to remember sap 1.0 but I do know that what he is proposing encourages a 2 sided war which is supposed to be what we are trying to avoid.

Re: Intrusion 3.0

Aye Pod wrote:
Line wrote:

Current mechanics doesn't prevent batphoning at all. Just bring more people while your enemy is sleeping or at work and win not loosing a bot

Quit being PvE and fight for saps

I could say quit being lazy and just undock to see if there is a fight. If your people are not all there then thats your bad guess you didnt want the station. I wont though because Im trying not to be confrontational.

I will agree with you though that the current sap mechanics need to be changed. Tweaked but not totally changed.

I undock every time I'm in game. Thing is, that noone comes at that time.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

9 (edited by Aye Pod 2016-02-18 20:37:36)

Re: Intrusion 3.0

Line wrote:

I undock every time I'm in game. Thing is, that no one comes at that time.

What you are proposing wont change that. It will only let you know when and where a fight may happen which is what we have today.

It sounds like what you are proposing is a notification on when you can let less active players in your corp know to log in and lets everyone know to be in the same place at the same time. What fun is *** like that. I like having to jump from Kraz to Hok to catch players running around.

Now ask yourself if we here in the PoE had stations and knew when to batphone everyone. You could ally the rest of the server and still not have enough people. We need to get away from exactly this.

Re: Intrusion 3.0

Again:

When you own all betas: hey! It's okay! So it should be!
When we own _several_ betas: it is impossible! It is necessary to change the rules of the game!
When we offer an alternative: no! This is bad! Our idea is better!
When you offer ideas: WE WANT IT NOW AT ANY COST! Dot!

Re: Intrusion 3.0

Aye Pod wrote:
Line wrote:

I undock every time I'm in game. Thing is, that no one comes at that time.

What you are proposing wont change that. It will only let you know when and where a fight may happen which is what we have today.

It sounds like what you are proposing is a notification on when you can let less active players in your corp know to log in and lets everyone know to be in the same place at the same time. What fun is *** like that. I like having to jump from Kraz to Hok to catch players running around.

Now ask yourself if we here in the PoE had stations and knew when to batphone everyone. You could ally the rest of the server and still not have enough people. We need to get away from exactly this.

I'm pretty sure I didn't mentioned neiter PoE or lazyness, why are you keep trying to use it as an argument? Problem is that remains of your PoE keep hitting only those SAPs they know noone will protect being busy IRL.

Now ask yourself, what's the best way to force you guys to fight?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Intrusion 3.0

We are not to blame for the fact that you have no friends on the server. Find someone in another time zone. (с) POE.

Re: Intrusion 3.0

Line wrote:

Now ask yourself, what's the best way to force you guys to fight?

We used to ask the same thing.

Re: Intrusion 3.0

Aye Pod wrote:
Line wrote:

Now ask yourself, what's the best way to force you guys to fight?

We used to ask the same thing.

I'm not quie sure what are you talking about, but if it's another PoE advertisement, why don't you just go CD an do it there?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

15 (edited by Aye Pod 2016-02-18 22:12:53)

Re: Intrusion 3.0

Chemist wrote:

Again:

When you own all betas: hey! It's okay! So it should be!

When youre on top you never see the problem of your ways. Now that things are different I see that there may be more fun to be had.

When we own _several_ betas: it is impossible! It is necessary to change the rules of the game!

Nope. Just more of the same problem.

When we offer an alternative: no! This is bad! Our idea is better!

I just stated my thoughts and objections of your "alternative" Its not my fault you cannot come up with a good counter argument other than we want it. 


When you offer ideas: WE WANT IT NOW AT ANY COST! Dot!

Nope. Youre mad that my suggestion was getting too many +1 from the community that you told every one to come -1 it cause it hurts your current meta.

Re: Intrusion 3.0

Line wrote:
Aye Pod wrote:
Line wrote:

Now ask yourself, what's the best way to force you guys to fight?

We used to ask the same thing.

I'm not quie sure what are you talking about, but if it's another PoE advertisement, why don't you just go CD an do it there?


You keep trying to spin every statement as something political. Its not my fault if english isnt your first language and you do not grasp the context of whats being said.

Re: Intrusion 3.0

Let me start off by saying your statement on wanting fights Line is a lie.  This system doesn't promote Pvp it promotes laziness.  And the system your suggesting will decrease Pvp.  In fact it'll probably kill ALL beta Pvp.  Because you want to be able to fight for a station in your window of game play, one where the enemy may be at work or sleeping.  Since I'm going to assume you love what's happening to Dom I'll use puppets to explain in.  CORP A (DOY) wants to ally with the entire server and bring 20 people during a time to defend station against CORP B (PHM) which is either asleep or at work.  So CORP A (DOY) doesn't have to really try to own a station or defend but when there's no enemies around.  Your encouraging mass station owning and effortless station owning. 

Look at Gamma and tell me how fun alarm clocking to hit stations is?  It's not.

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Re: Intrusion 3.0

Ville wrote:

Let me start off by saying your statement on wanting fights Line is a lie.  This system doesn't promote Pvp it promotes laziness.  And the system your suggesting will decrease Pvp.  In fact it'll probably kill ALL beta Pvp.  Because you want to be able to fight for a station in your window of game play, one where the enemy may be at work or sleeping.  Since I'm going to assume you love what's happening to Dom I'll use puppets to explain in.  CORP A (DOY) wants to ally with the entire server and bring 20 people during a time to defend station against CORP B (PHM) which is either asleep or at work.  So CORP A (DOY) doesn't have to really try to own a station or defend but when there's no enemies around.  Your encouraging mass station owning and effortless station owning. 

Look at Gamma and tell me how fun alarm clocking to hit stations is?  It's not.

Nice try, but according to KB story is: Corp A (PHM) was unable to win fights with exact numbers against Corp B (DOY) so they called Corp C (CIR) to help them arrange stuff, but they didn't realized that Corp C is hated by all the server so much that it will immediately attract everyone to safari.

So now you're pvpig against DoY probes rarely getting 1vs5 kills and ninja-hiting saps and telling me about laziness and pvp decrease. Okaaaay, then

Seems puppets ain't work. Let me illustrate then

Here is ME defending my Moyar. And here, here and here is YOU avoiding fights waiting for ME going to sleep or work or whatever offline. And guess what - tomorrow you will hit Moyar, or Koykili, or Heydelhorn, or Danarchov, and you will do it exactly when there is nobody home.

Now look at JOKE - they don't care about numbers and timers and SAPs - they just go and fight.

So yes, my system will decrease and even destroy Beta PvP. That one that is Player vs Probe.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Intrusion 3.0

they mean Post vs Post

Re: Intrusion 3.0

ShowBlink wrote:

they mean Post vs Post

Back to the point. Anyone like this idea besides DoY and Chemist?

Re: Intrusion 3.0

Line wrote:
Ville wrote:

Let me start off by saying your statement on wanting fights Line is a lie.  This system doesn't promote Pvp it promotes laziness.  And the system your suggesting will decrease Pvp.  In fact it'll probably kill ALL beta Pvp.  Because you want to be able to fight for a station in your window of game play, one where the enemy may be at work or sleeping.  Since I'm going to assume you love what's happening to Dom I'll use puppets to explain in.  CORP A (DOY) wants to ally with the entire server and bring 20 people during a time to defend station against CORP B (PHM) which is either asleep or at work.  So CORP A (DOY) doesn't have to really try to own a station or defend but when there's no enemies around.  Your encouraging mass station owning and effortless station owning. 

Look at Gamma and tell me how fun alarm clocking to hit stations is?  It's not.

Nice try, but according to KB story is: Corp A (PHM) was unable to win fights with exact numbers against Corp B (DOY) so they called Corp C (CIR) to help them arrange stuff, but they didn't realized that Corp C is hated by all the server so much that it will immediately attract everyone to safari.

So now you're pvpig against DoY probes rarely getting 1vs5 kills and ninja-hiting saps and telling me about laziness and pvp decrease. Okaaaay, then

Seems puppets ain't work. Let me illustrate then

Here is ME defending my Moyar. And here, here and here is YOU avoiding fights waiting for ME going to sleep or work or whatever offline. And guess what - tomorrow you will hit Moyar, or Koykili, or Heydelhorn, or Danarchov, and you will do it exactly when there is nobody home.

Now look at JOKE - they don't care about numbers and timers and SAPs - they just go and fight.

So yes, my system will decrease and even destroy Beta PvP. That one that is Player vs Probe.

Sounds like you don't want to work for outposts on beta anymore.

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Re: Intrusion 3.0

Ville wrote:

Sounds like you don't want to work for outposts on beta anymore.

Go and check, need a purpose is more than I can kick the sap in my prime because I can only that

Re: Intrusion 3.0

I applaud your effort in English Showblink.  But I don't understand what you mean.  If your upset that I'm farming your 100 SAPs smile then I'm sorry.  Maybe you should get some US allies.  Or better yet, not hold so many stations.

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Re: Intrusion 3.0

Actually I'm not sorry.  You choose to attack Dom. You knew the natives were hostile.

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25 (edited by Quelaag 2016-02-19 00:28:46)

Re: Intrusion 3.0

2Ville

ur arguments so terrible, go ahed

and if you wish debate in thread with russians plz learn russian language instead hitting someone by bad english skill knowlage