Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Jasdemi wrote:
Jita wrote:

Zoom - will you put credit values next to the items so they can be bought for cash?

+1.

Nothing wrong with micro transactions as long as there are other ways ingame to get these items.

That's what makes it not pay to win. If you canbget it by other means its fine. If someone wants to pay forty euros for a black heavy (and people will) then let them.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

regarding pay2win... look at the game "metal war online"

there is everything pay2win. consumables have 3-5x the effect then the grindable ones. even the PAINTJOBS you buy for real money will give you additional bonuses.

still, beeing able to buy stuff that just explodes unrecoverable to bugs and whatnot may not be the best thing to do.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

+ for Credit direct buys, and black bots need another 0 behind their price imho.

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

I don't think this game has much of a problem with bots exploding due to bugs. Bases on the other hand :-)

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

one last question to this mayhem: why don't you test stuff on PTS anymore?

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Zoom, are you able to make black versions of the other classes too?  Ewar, mech and assault?

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

DEV Zoom wrote:

Jita:

Currently it looks like this:

			Tokens	NIC		Relation limit
T2+ module		10,000	10,000,000	200
T4+ module		20,000	50,000,000	500
Black robot		100,000	250,000,000	650
Bronze requisition slip	500		
Silver requisition slip	2000	2,000,000
Gold requisition slip	6000	10,000,000

There is no difference in the price of various module types because there is no difference in the drop chance either.


Knowing what I know, you'll have black robots in 4 days on the server, and all over pvp in a month with those prices.

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33 (edited by Jita 2016-01-31 20:25:05)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

So Zoom, i've amended your table to include the amount of NIC that will be generated in the game by someone getting the amount of tokens required for each of the items in the shop. Mission income is derived from a level 6 mission earning you 60m for 600 tokens. Lower level missions generate less money for less tokens but the curve is very similar.

Remember to be a NIC sink the cost of the item must exceed the amount of money generated in getting the tokens.

			Tokens	NIC		Mission income
T2+ module		10,000	10,000,000	1 billion
T4+ module		20,000	50,000,000	2 billion
Black robot		100,000	250,000,000	10 billion

Now arguably if there is something you want a glut on the market of it is not NIC, it is tokens. The less NIC in the game the more valuable it is and the higher the market activity to get it. The more tokens are in the game the more they are used for othe things such as ammo and whatever those new bacons are.

What I suggest is:


			Tokens	NIC		
T2+ module		100	15m
T4+ module		5,000	500m
Black robot		50,000	7.5 billion

That reduces the number of missions needed for a black heavy but increases the NIC. Doing level 6 missions on Beta will require about 125 mission to earn that amount of NIC. If you did that many missions you would have 75000 tokens causing a token glut in the market and a definite NIC sink.

Just to be clear why a token glut is a good thing - it makes people who have those tokens find NIC from some place other than missions so that they can use it. This causes market activity as people sell stuff to get the NIC needed to use the tokens.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Jita wrote:

... even T4 module cost right now is 20m - 40m.

Only your sell orders.

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Dear devs, please don't consider making the best items available for real money just because some spoiled rich people wants to show off and enlarge their e-penis by dominating pvp without putting any ingame effort into getting that stuff.

if someone can buy the most powerful items instantly for real money while others who can't afford throwing hundreds or thousands of euros out the window has to grind for weeks or months, that is kinda pay to win and that way you will scare away the new players.

How about making highly detailed visual customization options for the bots instead and charging real money for the customization items?

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

am i the only one that thinks something has gone totally wrong, when player start to throw around with "billions", where the weekly fee for an unlimited storage is 5k ? (or was it even less?)

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Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Annihilator wrote:

am i the only one that thinks something has gone totally wrong, when player start to throw around with "billions", where the weekly fee for an unlimited storage is 5k ? (or was it even less?)

Well I did tell him that but he wants to balance to mission reward, not to old prices.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

You should have provided CTs, or 1 run limitations on research trees not the real items upfront/.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Celebro wrote:

You should have provided CTs, or 1 run limitations on research trees not the real items upfront/.

wrong
for once, the only thing zoom is doing right here, is following "KISS" principle.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

40 (edited by Celebro 2016-01-31 23:45:12)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Annihilator wrote:
Celebro wrote:

You should have provided CTs, or 1 run limitations on research trees not the real items upfront/.

wrong
for once, the only thing zoom is doing right here, is following "KISS" principle.

Yes to Keep it simple for industrialist that like their profession, not remove the process entirely.


From that principle we should have manufacturing removed and add all items to the syndicate shop hmm

RIP PERPETUUM

41 (edited by Jita 2016-02-01 00:15:58)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Botter Joe wrote:

Dear devs, please don't consider making the best items available for real money just because some spoiled rich people wants to show off and enlarge their e-penis by dominating pvp without putting any ingame effort into getting that stuff.

if someone can buy the most powerful items instantly for real money while others who can't afford throwing hundreds or thousands of euros out the window has to grind for weeks or months, that is kinda pay to win and that way you will scare away the new players.

How about making highly detailed visual customization options for the bots instead and charging real money for the customization items?

But you can quite easily do it with buying ICE and then buying the tokens. The mechanic exists, this just makes it more accessible and therefore hopefully more used.

If you could buy them with real money people would and then sell them on the market. It would be the new ICE.

Its good to monetize laziness. If you could spend 1 dollar to get PvP ammo people would, and those dollars add up. Its not pay to win if its easily accessible through in game means. Its [pay to win if its better than the existing and can ONLY be bought through cash.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Black Zenith!

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

I've thought by black bots you mean modular bots big_smile

Interesting news.

I'm a little worried about the reputation requirement for new bots. 650 means it's necessary to run misions in PvP zones to get a carebear bot smile
Can you reduce it to 600 at least when buying for credits?

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

3.6.3 on blog > 3.7.3 (its not that really important)

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Inda wrote:

3.6.3 on blog > 3.7.3 (its not that really important)

fixed smile

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Patch notes are now available:
http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2016-02-01

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

DEV Zoom wrote:

Patch notes are now available:
http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Changelog:2016-02-01

What were the final NIC and token values at release?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Jita wrote:

What were the final NIC and token values at release?

			Tokens	NIC		Relation limit
T2+ module		10,000	10,000,000	200
T4+ module		20,000	500,000,000	500
Black robot		100,000	5,000,000,000	650
Bronze requisition slip	500		
Silver requisition slip	2000	2,000,000
Gold requisition slip	6000	10,000,000

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

What were the final NIC and token values at release?

			Tokens	NIC		Relation limit
T2+ module		10,000	10,000,000	200
T4+ module		20,000	500,000,000	500
Black robot		100,000	5,000,000,000	650
Bronze requisition slip	500		
Silver requisition slip	2000	2,000,000
Gold requisition slip	6000	10,000,000

Those prices seem perfect but the trouble is the token costs are too high in relation to them.
Every time someone gets a black robot they will need to do missions that will give them the equivalent amount of reward of 10 billion NIC. If it only costs 5 billion NIC then it’s not a NIC sink but a faucet. The same is true across all of the items.

This can be resolved by:

Decreasing NIC reward by around 70%

Increasing token drop by around 50%

Reducing token cost by around 70%

Increasing NIC cost by around 70%

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2016-02-01

Maybe I have this all backwards but:

You get 100,000 tokens by doing ~322 level 6 missions (100,000/310).

5,000,000,000/322=15,5 million NIC

Do you get that much NIC from a single level 6 mission? Cause if not, then that's a sink in my eyes.