Topic: Making endless reserves worth less over time

What ideas do people have about reducing the amount / usefulness / worth of reserves built up and sat in corp hangers and peoples item list.

There are people who haven't played in years who have more stuff than probably everyone in the game who does play (i'm looking at you Tux!) - I'd like to see a mechanic that degrades this over time to promote active gameplay and use of the market (may as well sell than lose quality while storing).

Some ideas might be:

Playing with the decimal points so that all items now cost 10X as many materials, all materials take up 10X less space and all gathering activities get 10X the amount of stuff. Then add a modifier that does the same thing by .5% every month.

Adding a tax on hanger space - if the tax is not paid the game automatically sells items to the market to pay for it

Reducing the effectiveness of equipment over time - add slight damage to all items over time meaning they would need to be repaired to use (and increase repair costs in general in line with NIC value alongside increasing the gap between Beta cost and station income)

Create iterative releases of existing mechs giving their capabilities inflation and therefore making the older models less used

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Ive always said to introduce mineral purity/degradation. I dont know what the magic number would be but I think taking it down to 10% would be too much.

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

You know what the fastest way to remove items from the game and put them on the market?  A Good War.

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Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Ville wrote:

You know what the fastest way to remove items from the game and put them on the market?  A Good War.

Tell me how a war is going to get stuff from people who don't play any more back on the market? Besides from that a good war doesn't rend to happen. People get welped under their home station and quit the next day

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

If people never play those goods are already as good as dead.

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Rolafen Azec wrote:

If people never play those goods are already as good as dead.

well, its more about the goods of those who don't really play,
have assets protected by wonky game mechanics,
and can wreak the games playerbase by loggin in with 20-30 agents with endless t4-mk2 support.

naturally, those assets of the current past, would become obsolete, if the DEVs would do fix the item balance and release t5 as replacement for current gear, instead of something parallel to it

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Annihilator wrote:

naturally, those assets of the current past, would become obsolete, if the DEVs would do fix the item balance and release t5 as replacement for current gear, instead of something parallel to it

Correct.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Ville wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

naturally, those assets of the current past, would become obsolete, if the DEVs would do fix the item balance and release t5 as replacement for current gear, instead of something parallel to it

Correct.

Actually if t5 is iteratively better than t4 it would be a useless addition making everything else obsolete much like t4 does. It would be better if they went down the t2 route but more pronounced so that more than one tier is used

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Ville wrote:

You know what the fastest way to remove items from the game and put them on the market?  A Good War.

Agreed, but too much butthurt over losing to PoE exists in this game.

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

-1 bad idea, this is as bad as Capital Ships in Eve not being able to dock up....it makes people play the game when they dont want to making it a toxic environment.  People who have worked hard to earn their stash shouldnt be penalized if they want to take a break, especially if they have a boosted account.

11 (edited by BadAss 2016-01-23 10:40:07)

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

-1 dont like this smile
I do not want to lazy so easily got it all.

Just @ Game

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Whichever station the mats are, bang it on the market if the stack has not been touched for over 6 months, you could have a fail safe way of monitoring for activity where if the stacks have been moved to a folder and back again to keep serial hoarders happy, price=50% of lowest market.

13 (edited by Goffer 2016-01-23 11:37:52)

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

I like the overall idea behind to have a mechanism, that means having now 1kU Epi is no guarantee for you to never ever need to mine again.

Several suggestions above would be bad idea for stuff of corps that is locked on a beta station.
There will be always a corp that is not able to access its beta stuff for long time, so this would prevent player from bringing stuff to beta instead of encouraging the player to bring some stuff to beta.

BTW define reserves that should degrade. Ores, Bots, stuff, Beacons, teleports, NIC, Token, ICE? If you think about it, you see it is not easy to seperate as everything has its established worth.

I don't like the way the Devs doing now, by inflating token and NIC in a large step, but in general a light (and controlled ) inflation is what keeps the world running. Just check history to see what uncontrolled and large inflation does to economy. PO is a sandbox, but several mechanism are here valid as well.

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Goffer wrote:

I like the overall idea behind to have a mechanism, that means having now 1kU Epi is no guarantee for you to never ever need to mine again.

Several suggestions above would be bad idea for stuff of corps that is locked on a beta station.
There will be always a corp that is not able to access its beta stuff for long time, so this would prevent player from bringing stuff to beta instead of encouraging the player to bring some stuff to beta.

BTW define reserves that should degrade. Ores, Bots, stuff, Beacons, teleports, NIC, Token, ICE? If you think about it, you see it is not easy to seperate as everything has its established worth.

I don't like the way the Devs doing now, by inflating token and NIC in a large step, but in general a light (and controlled ) inflation is what keeps the world running. Just check history to see what uncontrolled and large inflation does to economy. PO is a sandbox, but several mechanism are here valid as well.

Yeah I largely agree with you. My concern is that a lot of the older stocks are borne from the multiple problems of a dead game, gamma 1.0, a LOT of account sharing and macroing, questionable mission and beacon use and unlimited cargo exploits. The NIC and Token inflation (although I agree it needs to be more controlled) is dealing with some of that but items and minerals need dealing with too.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Jita wrote:

Yeah I largely agree with you. My concern is that a lot of the older stocks are borne from the multiple problems of a dead game, gamma 1.0, a LOT of account sharing and macroing, questionable mission and beacon use and unlimited cargo exploits. The NIC and Token inflation (although I agree it needs to be more controlled) is dealing with some of that but items and minerals need dealing with too.

Sounding more like Syndic butthurt rather than a game balance.

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Well I had two ideas.

One would be liquidity freeze. If you had a lot of assets that had not touched for a while some of it would enter "deep storage". The thing with deep storage is that it takes time to retrieve stuff from it. You would still have those thousand T4 heavy mechs but you could only retrieve them at a rate of 1 per hour. In general some sort of "storage speed" that is only relevevant for mid and big corporations migth be needed.

The other would be some kind of redistribution scheme. Take some portion of things sotred in a terminal and distribute it according to some activity criteria. With all parties playing it should amount to no net transfer. I didn't find any good criteria. It could be time spent in terminal, times entered terminal, missions completed in terminal etc. This could however be made so that storing stuff in alpha makes them sweep much while having a beta station that is left for ruin and not claimed by anyone would still store the resources. You could balance loss rate in alpha vs being locked out in beta.

17 (edited by Celebro 2016-01-23 18:10:31)

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

We rely to much on one resource: Epriton. Split this resource into multiple ores(maybe faction based) and make it seasonal. So let say Epriton is split to 3 sources, 1 of them is missing in the game every week or so, and occasionally appears in alpha without warning. We have to mix things up a little for balance.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Stop. I bought the game. Played. Then, I could not play 1 year. I come back. And I empty. WTF? Developers stole our stuff. Yes, it is property developers, but what a normal person would buy a game after this? I have not played Eve in one year. And I know that I got a ship.

-100500. Because stupid.
Few things in the market? Do more and sell. Kill, steal, sell.

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Infinite free storage space needs to go.

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Ludlow Bursar wrote:

Infinite free storage space needs to go.

I think that's the key really, some storage space for free is fine but unlimited corp and personal storage is wrong.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

21 (edited by Annihilator 2016-01-24 12:00:48)

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Jita wrote:
Ludlow Bursar wrote:

Infinite free storage space needs to go.

I think that's the key really, some storage space for free is fine but unlimited corp and personal storage is wrong.

but syndic and ville will then create countless alts to spread their countless epri stacks into free storages. to avoid that.
not to forget to create alt corps and such wink

... thats not my opinion.
from my experience with 3 diablo2 accounts alone for mule caracters, i know this workaround is doable, buy by far not worth the effort.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Annihilator wrote:
Jita wrote:
Ludlow Bursar wrote:

Infinite free storage space needs to go.

I think that's the key really, some storage space for free is fine but unlimited corp and personal storage is wrong.

but syndic and ville will then create countless alts to spread their countless epri stacks into free storages. to avoid that.
not to forget to create alt corps and such wink

... thats not my opinion.
from my experience with 3 diablo2 accounts alone for mule caracters, i know this workaround is doable, buy by far not worth the effort.

Yeah and there is other things too like putting it on the market for a very low amount of money in a closed beta outpost to avoid transaction tax and stuff like that. There are problems with everything I guess, but I think the aim is one thats worth going for.

Mortal manages it quite well - bank space is a major thing and it makes the crazy accumulation of wealth not really worth it. People tend to spend their money rather than storing it forever for some imaginary thing that doesn't actually happen as they are too busy storing it.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

23 (edited by Gekko 2016-01-25 11:33:37)

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

-1
People spent their time and money to get their stuff, there's no reason to rip them off exept for your jealousy.

If they can't find a proper use for their reserves right now then it's not their fault. Maybe they waiting for large/capital bots to spend it on, or something else somewhere in the next age.

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

first: there are no endless reserves in this game. some ppl or corps might have hundrets or maybe thousands of bots and modules in their stash, but how did they get that? they had to spend many hours of time to get that. while other ppl that dont have these kinds of assets did not spend the time. they just complain that other ppl have it.

there is no reason to strip ppl of their assents just because they used more effort then other ppl to get what they have.

besides there already is a big inflation of NIC. so ppl that had billions of nic now have way less from their money. so a few ppl already have been hit hard and now have way less from the work they once did.

the only inflation that may arrive at some point may be that there will be new bots and new equipment in the game so ppl will use the old assets less. but honestly i think that would be bad game design if you make the "old stuff" obsolete.

complains like that usually come from ppl that dont want to spend the time to build assents. and just as stated above might just be jealous because they dont have it too...
in terms of market it would not change anything either. ppl that build assets just do it and always have done it. so if they cant afford their storrage then they might keep it a bit smaller, but they will still mine and build their own thing. the market is dead for other reasons and that is (as for so long) a population issue.

go build your own assets and dont *** about ppl that have spend a lot time to get what they have.

Re: Making endless reserves worth less over time

Gekko wrote:

Maybe they waiting for large/capital bots to spend it on, or something else somewhere in the next age.

This is the main reason why I gain equipment. Because when to begin a global war, the number of modules and robot decreases rapidly.