Re: Anomalies.

Jita wrote:
Goffer wrote:

This issue needs to be looked into urgently.
Right now, Gamma base attack is "teleport anomaly online" instead of what it should be.

teleport anomaly online is much better than break it down while your not there with bugs online.

The difficulty with gamma is a frontal assault vs any half decent gamma base is crazy even at 900m. This has meant that bases have been killed by bugs and mechanics because doing it just with guns is next to impossible post terraforming change.

I *** SAID THIS SINCE THE GAMMA CHANGE!

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Re: Anomalies.

When the Russian report a bug: No, dude, it's cool. So it should be.
When our opponents are reporting the same bug: yeah ... it's a bug. We'll fix that.
When opponents use the bug: see nothing, hear nothing. We are very busy.
When we use the bugs: you fags! Cheaters! Reported!

Re: Anomalies.

Chemist wrote:

When the Russian report a bug: No, dude, it's cool. So it should be.
When our opponents are reporting the same bug: yeah ... it's a bug. We'll fix that.
When opponents use the bug: see nothing, hear nothing. We are very busy.
When we use the bugs: you fags! Cheaters! Reported!

I have to agree with Chemist on this one..

Re: Anomalies.

Honestly,

The anomalies should only allow you to teleport AFTER a TAP is used.  Not, use them move whole fleets in roll things.

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Re: Anomalies.

Chemist:

Everyone gets to use bugs before they are declared bugs, including Russians.

No one gets to use bugs after they have been declared so by the devs.

If Ville is correct then this bug is an old one and wasnt just reported yesterday. If you are just now getting around to using it then then sorry my friend, you have missed out. Besides, this isnt even really a bug but more of a game mechanic that isnt working as intended.

Re: Anomalies.

Aye Pod wrote:

Chemist:

Everyone gets to use bugs before they are declared bugs, including Russians.

No one gets to use bugs after they have been declared so by the devs.

If Ville is correct then this bug is an old one and wasnt just reported yesterday. If you are just now getting around to using it then then sorry my friend, you have missed out. Besides, this isnt even really a bug but more of a game mechanic that isnt working as intended.

Do not tell me stories.

Re: Anomalies.

It is a two stage problem, as Dev Zoom already declared the complete problem in other thread.

The mechanic of tp anomalies on gamma is game breaking, but till now intended by Devs.
The problem is, that a real Bug in combination with broken game design leads to the fact, that best attack force for a well defended gamma base is atm a sequer fleet with bombs. As it doesn't matter if base has turrets or not you can do severe damage and only way to stop this would be a real large defense fleet 24/7 active.

Nobody with sane mind can say that this is how it should be.

Re: Anomalies.

Goffer wrote:

It is a two stage problem, as Dev Zoom already declared the complete problem in other thread.

The mechanic of tp anomalies on gamma is game breaking, but till now intended by Devs.
The problem is, that a real Bug in combination with broken game design leads to the fact, that best attack force for a well defended gamma base is atm a sequer fleet with bombs. As it doesn't matter if base has turrets or not you can do severe damage and only way to stop this would be a real large defense fleet 24/7 active.

Nobody with sane mind can say that this is how it should be.

actually, its not true.
unless you consider Agent "bleur" and "Toninu" a large defense fleet. 
it needs a much larger fleet to make it work against a proper built base, since anomalies spawn random.

its only an issue against bases built with gamma 1.0 mindset. And that is true for the topic starters gamma base.
Maybe its also an issue for gamma bases built by 1-2 agents with a priority on getting buildings placed on terrain, instead of countless Symbiont-hours fiddling with the horrible new terraforming system spread on several agents.

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34 (edited by Celebro 2016-01-20 18:04:22)

Re: Anomalies.

Annihilator wrote:

Maybe its also an issue for gamma bases built by 1-2 agents with a priority on getting buildings placed on terrain, instead of countless Symbiont-hours fiddling with the horrible new terraforming system spread on several agents.

Yes, manual terraforming sucks, we need better features to make it easier and more freedom.

RIP PERPETUUM

35 (edited by Ville 2016-01-20 18:25:46)

Re: Anomalies.

It's simple really, you've got to be willing to lose what you've placed on gamma.  Just like Krazlov, I've accepted I'm going to lose the bases out there.  It doesn't really matter to us considering we've deconstructed all the bases on that island and put them back up.  Gamma really allows smaller entities to exist and have something.  POE is literally 4 different active players and we are able to use Krazlov effectively.  Even with enemy bases on it.

But with teleport anomalies it really changes this.  It makes it increasingly difficult.  Just manipulate the anamolies where you want them jump in large groups and reinforce a base and teleport out.

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Re: Anomalies.

Annihilator wrote:

actually, its not true.
unless you consider Agent "bleur" and "Toninu" a large defense fleet. 
it needs a much larger fleet to make it work against a proper built base, since anomalies spawn random.

An anomaly spawns random yes. But it is easy kill those anomalies too far away from turrets to be useful and stick to the ones left.
If an anomaly spawns within buildings you jump with sequer. If there are two agents alone on base they can neither kill anomaly in every second, as this would require to constant dock-undock to see the new anomaly spawn or be within detection range nor is it enough to have two agents to kill a sequer poping through before he can do harm unless you are 24/7 constant active with no second reaction time.

Last problem is, that killing anomalies damages buildings which means your are constant busy repair some stuff as well, if you kill every anomaly.

I was several times there to see someone jumping through a new anomaly checking if every thing is fine, bring second agent with Sequer or Lithus place bomb and sometimes even leave.
Maybe you should ask Inda, he knows enough stories how to do this.

Re: Anomalies.

As stated above - there are no problems with the anomalies. Everything works as intended. cool lol
Do you want to defend your base? Sit online 24/7 and kill new anomalies. lol

Re: Anomalies.

Ville wrote:

POE is literally 4 different active players

.....jump in large groups.

You seem to want to be able to defend a gamma vs large groups with four people. Since when has Gamma ever been that way?

The very fact that there are so many PofE gammas still standing shows that this mechanic is not as easy as you make out, nor as effective.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Anomalies.

Goffer wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

actually, its not true.
unless you consider Agent "bleur" and "Toninu" a large defense fleet. 
it needs a much larger fleet to make it work against a proper built base, since anomalies spawn random.

An anomaly spawns random yes. But it is easy kill those anomalies too far away from turrets to be useful and stick to the ones left.
If an anomaly spawns within buildings you jump with sequer. If there are two agents alone on base they can neither kill anomaly in every second, as this would require to constant dock-undock to see the new anomaly spawn or be within detection range nor is it enough to have two agents to kill a sequer poping through before he can do harm unless you are 24/7 constant active with no second reaction time.

Last problem is, that killing anomalies damages buildings which means your are constant busy repair some stuff as well, if you kill every anomaly.

I was several times there to see someone jumping through a new anomaly checking if every thing is fine, bring second agent with Sequer or Lithus place bomb and sometimes even leave.
Maybe you should ask Inda, he knows enough stories how to do this.

still, your beeing hypothetical...
i have spent 4 hours just to get anomalies spawn where i wanted them, just see them beeing destroyed a few seconds later by your corp noob. plasmabombs have a range of only a few meters, so this bug only works in your favor, if the anomaly spawns within that explosion radius (which has a damage falloff ontop)

anomalies damaging buildings? are you serious here? even with a lwf fit light bot at point blank, i recieve only a few hitpoints damage. Those anomalies have 1k hitpoints and an explosion radius of 200m - means against a 10m hitsize turret, theres only 50 damage dealt... before resist.
even a t3 terminal with 150m hitsize would only recieve at max 750 damage before resists

now, since anomalies only spawn on heavy mech passable slopes, you can construct your base accordingly, with a 15 tile assault-only slope around you buildings (thanks to the new terraforming!)

And meanwhile Ville is dreaming about "large groups"... like if there would be more agents on our side then on his fuuu

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Re: Anomalies.

Jita wrote:
Ville wrote:

POE is literally 4 different active players

.....jump in large groups.

You seem to want to be able to defend a gamma vs large groups with four people. Since when has Gamma ever been that way?

The very fact that there are so many PofE gammas still standing shows that this mechanic is not as easy as you make out, nor as effective.

Ville wrote:

I'm on a cell phone atm, so forgive the spelling and grammar.  First out I'd like to talk about the balance of attacking versus defending a gamma.

I'm in favor for a 60/40 system.  Where the defender has a slight advantage over the attacker.  But currently we have a 90/10 system.  Heavily in favor of the defenders. 

Examples of this:

1.  Boosted/ Nonboosted turrets out range players.
2.  Only 2/3rds of the population can participate in sieges because Mesmers are basically useless.
3.  Home field advantage.
4.  Ewar turrets never got rebalanced with the 20% reduction in ewar strength reduction of players.
5.  DPS turrets still hit like a truck.
6.  You can't fit to counter Ewar turrets because YOU HAVE to have the head slots for range extenders leaving you completely exposed to Ewar turrets.
7.  Masking nodes.
8.  You can terraform around buildings creating small craters preventing them from being shot, repair nodes....
9.  Offensive terraforming is non existent.
10.  Attackers have to setup siege bases.
11.  NPCs and anomalies.
12.  Very high resistances of turrets make the repair to dps ratio to 5/1( 5 ranged Heavys versus 1 repair symbiont).

Advantages of attacking:
1.  You pick the time.

There's no profit in attacking gamma.

Please fix your balance.  Thanks.

#12 was bugged, so it's actually 3 to 1 now.

This was from the Gamma thread in balancing.  Now I understand why the Developers did what they did.  Beta is a complete zerg fest, you can't do anything there without being in the biggest alliance.  Gamma actually gives smaller entities a chance to get a leg up, and be able to do things. 

And the reason we had so many Gammas?  Because no one ever wanted to take the time to siege them.

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Re: Anomalies.

just a small suggestion if I may..

Do you guys think it would be a good idea to link gammas both to betas and to alpha2?
since smaller entities could claim a small base on gamma before conquering beta sap stations (example a small corp with few same tz dudes) and maybe move to betas later on so both options would be equally viable. Would be nice to have "Fort" defense/attacks smile

please do not include political sperg, just be objective.

42 (edited by Blocker 2016-01-21 15:10:42)

Re: Anomalies.

Toninu wrote:

just a small suggestion if I may..

Do you guys think it would be a good idea to link gammas both to betas and to alpha2?
since smaller entities could claim a small base on gamma before conquering beta sap stations (example a small corp with few same tz dudes) and maybe move to betas later on so both options would be equally viable. Would be nice to have "Fort" defense/attacks smile

please do not include political sperg, just be objective.

We found that holding a beta station with a small corp all in the same time zone is extremely difficult. You can miss up to 2 SAPS a day because of sleep/work, you know real life stuff. You can potentially lose nearly half the station points within 16 hours in a worse case scenario. (2 specimens 8 hours apart). We have seen 4 specimens in a row.

I would even go so far to say that personally i think it may be easier for a small corp in the same time zone to maintain/defend a well designed gamma base than hold a beta station. Unfortunately access to gammas is generally though the betas, so there's another potential hurdle for a smaller new corp to jump.

I'm basing this off our experience, which is a small group of CASUAL players in the same time zone (mostly), all with full time jobs and families. So on average a couple of hours most nights to have fun. If you have people that can spend most of the day playing then that changes things of course.

Re: Anomalies.

Blocker wrote:
Toninu wrote:

just a small suggestion if I may..

Do you guys think it would be a good idea to link gammas both to betas and to alpha2?
since smaller entities could claim a small base on gamma before conquering beta sap stations (example a small corp with few same tz dudes) and maybe move to betas later on so both options would be equally viable. Would be nice to have "Fort" defense/attacks smile

please do not include political sperg, just be objective.

We found that holding a beta station with a small corp all in the same time zone is extremely difficult. You can miss up to 2 SAPS a day because of sleep/work, you know real life stuff. You can potentially lose nearly half the station points within 16 hours in a worse case scenario. (2 specimens 8 hours apart). We have seen 4 specimens in a row.

I would even go so far to say that personally i think it may be easier for a small corp in the same time zone to maintain/defend a well designed gamma base than hold a beta station. Unfortunately access to gammas is generally though the betas, so there's another potential hurdle for a smaller new corp to jump.

I'm basing this off our experience, which is a small group of CASUAL players in the same time zone, all with full time jobs and families. So on average a couple of hours most nights to have fun. If you have people that can spend most of the day playing then that changes things of course.

yeah I agree. Trouble is Gamma content is minor and a lot more boring than beta content.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Anomalies.

Blocker wrote:
Toninu wrote:

just a small suggestion if I may..

Do you guys think it would be a good idea to link gammas both to betas and to alpha2?
since smaller entities could claim a small base on gamma before conquering beta sap stations (example a small corp with few same tz dudes) and maybe move to betas later on so both options would be equally viable. Would be nice to have "Fort" defense/attacks smile

please do not include political sperg, just be objective.

We found that holding a beta station with a small corp all in the same time zone is extremely difficult. You can miss up to 2 SAPS a day because of sleep/work, you know real life stuff. You can potentially lose nearly half the station points within 16 hours in a worse case scenario. (2 specimens 8 hours apart). We have seen 4 specimens in a row.

I would even go so far to say that personally i think it may be easier for a small corp in the same time zone to maintain/defend a well designed gamma base than hold a beta station. Unfortunately access to gammas is generally though the betas, so there's another potential hurdle for a smaller new corp to jump.

I'm basing this off our experience, which is a small group of CASUAL players in the same time zone (mostly), all with full time jobs and families. So on average a couple of hours most nights to have fun. If you have people that can spend most of the day playing then that changes things of course.

Exactly.

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Re: Anomalies.

agree with blockers post.

just wanto to mention, that the inital cost of a gamma is way to high for a small corp:
you need to place down >40 expensive buildings and haul a few hundred of units of stuff over from alpha/beta.
now combine this with the next point

the changed reinforce mechanics are a dual edged sword:

on one hand, it protects unused terminals, that are just there for power projection to well,
on the other hand, its devastating for any base with production facilities, as they have not much CPU left to allow the owner do anything there for three days, when his base bas set into reinforce over night.
even a single building in reinforce, may it be a defense turret, or something that is placed outside of the turret defense by default (command nodes, highway nodes, energy wells, mining towers) locks you down once your base is at max CPU.

anomalies are the smallest of the misbalanced things with gamma.

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