Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

BeastmodeGuNs wrote:

What I did and what Jita wants are two different things I'll have you know.

You just proved Jita's words on the forum are meaningless. Why would anyone listen to him if he can't even manage his own corp?

352 (edited by Jita 2016-01-07 11:40:38)

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Illiathos wrote:
BeastmodeGuNs wrote:

What I did and what Jita wants are two different things I'll have you know.

You just proved Jita's words on the forum are meaningless. Why would anyone listen to him if he can't even manage his own corp?

It's beastmode's corp and has been for months. Keep with the times bro!

Also this is features and discussion, try to keep personal and corp hate to a minimum.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Jita wrote:
Illiathos wrote:
BeastmodeGuNs wrote:

What I did and what Jita wants are two different things I'll have you know.

You just proved Jita's words on the forum are meaningless. Why would anyone listen to him if he can't even manage his own corp?

It's beastmode's corp and has been for months. Keep with the times bro!

Also this is features and discussion, try to keep personal and corp hate to a minimum.

There is no corp hate here. Jita stated Joke will have open outposts. There are none open. In the end, all that's changed is the credibility Jita's argument for unlocking outposts. Because if your corp is unwilling to open outposts, then why propose the change?

And I'm not going to argue anymore. If you think open outposts are the future of the game, you have no reason not to open them. If your corpmates disagree, then that simply means they don't agree with you. So far, noone has willingly open terminals. If we thought that open terminals were good for the game, they'd be open already.

354

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Illiathos wrote:
Jita wrote:
Illiathos wrote:

You just proved Jita's words on the forum are meaningless. Why would anyone listen to him if he can't even manage his own corp?

It's beastmode's corp and has been for months. Keep with the times bro!

Also this is features and discussion, try to keep personal and corp hate to a minimum.

There is no corp hate here. Jita stated Joke will have open outposts. There are none open. In the end, all that's changed is the credibility Jita's argument for unlocking outposts. Because if your corp is unwilling to open outposts, then why propose the change?

And I'm not going to argue anymore. If you think open outposts are the future of the game, you have no reason not to open them. If your corpmates disagree, then that simply means they don't agree with you. So far, noone has willingly open terminals. If we thought that open terminals were good for the game, they'd be open already.

I dont think you understand the arguments for and against. I suggest reading the thread.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Illiathos wrote:
Jita wrote:
Illiathos wrote:

You just proved Jita's words on the forum are meaningless. Why would anyone listen to him if he can't even manage his own corp?

It's beastmode's corp and has been for months. Keep with the times bro!

Also this is features and discussion, try to keep personal and corp hate to a minimum.

There is no corp hate here. Jita stated Joke will have open outposts. There are none open. In the end, all that's changed is the credibility Jita's argument for unlocking outposts. Because if your corp is unwilling to open outposts, then why propose the change?

And I'm not going to argue anymore. If you think open outposts are the future of the game, you have no reason not to open them. If your corpmates disagree, then that simply means they don't agree with you. So far, noone has willingly open terminals. If we thought that open terminals were good for the game, they'd be open already.

If no corps are forced to open all outpost, there is little reason to open ours. Fair game.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

All I have to say here, is if Jita decides he wants the outpost open, in the end he can do exactly that.

Reading this signature fills you with determination.

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

I vote to close this thread. The OP has the power to show the benefits of having open terminals on beta by opening those that his corporation currently controls but yet he chooses to not to. Clearly he does NOT believe any of his own assertions that he has made thus far so this is nothing more than a troll post.

358 (edited by Jita 2016-01-07 19:45:46)

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Aye Pod wrote:

obvious troll is obvious

A reminder of the point of the thread:

The summary:

Why?

Because it provides a stepping stone. Unlocked beta 1, locked beta 2, gamma. It gives corps who can't go toe to toe with the big dogs a place of relative safety to enjoy the benefits of beta. This encourages emergent gameplay and reduces the need for alliances. You make a choice what you fight to defend your territory rather than being forced to fight to prevent station locking.

Why don't you just use beta stations?

They are constantly camped or people would. Even now these stations still have a lot of traffic and become a focus of PvP. This is a good thing.

If you unlock the stations people would just camp the outposts.

Yes they would. They would however have twelve locations to camp and not three. With the removal of sparks this becomes a lot harder and forces you to fragment your alts and forces. You have to pick who you hate the most. If and when perpetuum has five or six different entities living in locations you only get to cover a couple of them, you can't play 'whack a mole' over them all

What makes you think it would populate beta

I'm not a hundred percent sure it would on its own. Beta reward still needs work but with the removal of sparks and station unlocking the risk would be a lot better. Nobody with any sense would risk moving industry to beta while you could have all your CTs locked if you don't play for a weekend. It's a mechanic meant for big corps and alliances and doesn't work at this population.

Do it for a trial period and judge its success by something like this:

Aye Pod wrote:

Would there be a way to get island statistics before and after change? We can aggregate kills from the KB but I would like to know the number of unique visitors to the islands and the overall amount of industry being done (total number of manufactured cycles completed, total amt of items recycled etc) If opening up Beta 1 stations is done under the guise that it will encourage overall island useage then fine, however, after the trial period if all it has done is increase pvp then we should find another alternative and revert back to locked stations.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

So open JOKE bases and give us some hard evidence. Surely you believe your own words. Grow a set and back them up.

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Aye Pod wrote:

So open JOKE bases and give us some hard evidence. Surely you believe your own words. Grow a set and back them up.

so, mister "we can break away from CIR/PHM at any time" ...

give us some hard evidence tongue

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

361

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Annihilator wrote:
Aye Pod wrote:

So open JOKE bases and give us some hard evidence. Surely you believe your own words. Grow a set and back them up.

so, mister "we can break away from CIR/PHM at any time" ...

give us some hard evidence tongue

Beside which the whole point is that you have twelve possible places to go rather than 3 (or if initia was opened up 4). He's just a sad troll.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Aye Pod wrote:

I vote to close this thread. The OP has the power to show the benefits of having open terminals on beta by opening those that his corporation currently controls but yet he chooses to not to. Clearly he does NOT believe any of his own assertions that he has made thus far so this is nothing more than a troll post.

+1

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Blocker wrote:

I am mostly indifferent to idea of station locking/unlocking, however I would like to see one change in the current mechanics, don't allow probes to be placed within 1000(500?)m of open beta terminals. If anything is going to dissuade new players from using them it's this.

The current mechanic of being allowed to place a probe directly under public beta terminals is ridiculous.


+1 Blocker
Whats the point of having open terminal if the new player cant get to it or even on the Island without being Ganked.

And while we are at it, do something about using probes at the entry TP to lock down use of an Island (Do I log in my MK2 Heavy and tackle bot or not).
I thought probes were to support temporary operations (mining/pvp/transport/missions) not to act as a permenant watch tower.
drop their price to 50k nic and give them a 2-3hr timeout.

If this forces people to use gate scouts

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

More teleports will not fix any of the issues mentioned.  All that will happen is more scouts will be deployed. <3

Well, at least we will have more people playing (you could also sit a plated bot on top of the probe, might get annoying after a while).


If you want to Gank someone on Beta, scan the Epi fields and check them,  roam and hope you run into an artifactor, or at least scout. They should have a chance to get on unnoticed, if they use scouts and probes they also have a chance of mitigating the risk.

Risk vs Reward......

At the moment one guy with the map open can scout all of Nia.
It shouldn't come down to either blue up or pay to be on Beta/Gamma.

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Jita wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
Aye Pod wrote:

So open JOKE bases and give us some hard evidence. Surely you believe your own words. Grow a set and back them up.

so, mister "we can break away from CIR/PHM at any time" ...

give us some hard evidence tongue

Beside which the whole point is that you have twelve possible places to go rather than 3 (or if initia was opened up 4). He's just a sad troll.

I remember when we did have Initia when you were trying to work for the idea and we did open up Initia... real shame that it simply got taken and closed back up by another corp in the end.

Reading this signature fills you with determination.

365 (edited by Aye Pod 2016-01-08 01:39:44)

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Jita wrote:

Beside which the whole point is that you have twelve possible places to go rather than 3 (or if initia was opened up 4). He's just a sad troll.

Put up or shut up at this point.

Besides, didnt you guys have a couple of "public" gamma terminals up? How active were those islands? How many factions did NER split into? Oh thats right, you are waiting for PoE to do it first. lol

-1 to station games.

366

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

DarkTerror wrote:

It shouldn't come down to either blue up or pay to be on Beta/Gamma.

QFT

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Aye Pod, I'd never move any of my stuff into an outpost someone can lock on a whim.

368

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Now that we seem to have an agreement on at least this point:

Ville wrote:

Beta is a complete zerg fest, you can't do anything there without being in the biggest alliance.

Can we try and find a middle ground on this?

How easy would it be to add three new Gamma islands, prevent base building and terraforming on them and add four or five NPC terminals?

Lebensraum is needed for when the next sale and patch comes around

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

369

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Jita wrote:

Now that we seem to have an agreement on at least this point:

Ville wrote:

Beta is a complete zerg fest, you can't do anything there without being in the biggest alliance.

Can we try and find a middle ground on this?

How easy would it be to add three new Gamma islands, prevent base building and terraforming on them and add four or five NPC terminals?

Lebensraum is needed for when the next sale and patch comes around

+1

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370 (edited by Gotharic 2016-01-21 16:47:19)

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

+1

371

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

So….

We are 7 months on and starting to see the green shoots of recovery.
There are now effective fighting forces on Norhoop, Hokk (two different factions), Dom and another trying for Nova. Beta is populated, PvP is happening at an increasing rate and a the population seems to be slowly growing.

Monday was a good example. A bloodbath with three factions fighting on an island and gangs from 5 – 15 fielded. What was interesting about that day and most of the fights seen is that no SAPS were involved. 80% of the server have or had agreements in place to stop the useless back and forth of sap warfare and build a multi factional enjoyable game full of opportunity for PVE and PvP.

This was the world that Open Stations was designed to create. A world where corps like Unity can start afresh on a new island and have the room to breathe and grow. Where people do industry and production on Beta because they don’t have to worry about getting locked away from their assets.

The risk is that this is player created and based upon some shiny utopian view that things are going to stay this friendly forever. It won’t. It’s natural for people who have objectives to want to gain the advantage through mergers and alliances if that’s the only way to achieve them. This is what Open Stations helps to remove – without the need for all or nothing fights and 24 hour coverage there is little need to band together to overwhelm. You end up having fights like PHM did on Monday, manoeuvrable assaults to take on a larger force. Engage and disengage because the objective is fun PvP and not blob / blue ball.

It’s got to be time to turn what the players have done in to real mechanics so we can cement this success for the future.

I’m (still somebody shoot me jesus ***) advocating the following:

Phase 1: Open stations

All Beta 1 stations unable to be locked. All other features remain the same (so SAPS would impact station services and Auras)

An NPC terminal is added to all Beta 2’s

Phase 2: Don’t be a ***

A series of anti station ganking methods

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Jita wrote:

Now that we seem to have an agreement on at least this point:

Ville wrote:

Beta is a complete zerg fest, you can't do anything there without being in the biggest alliance.

Can we try and find a middle ground on this?

How easy would it be to add three new Gamma islands, prevent base building and terraforming on them and add four or five NPC terminals?

Lebensraum is needed for when the next sale and patch comes around

I quite like the sound of this, add in some dynamic events happening at random as you move around and it would be quite a bit of fun. I also like the idea of not having a home (base) and just roaming around like a nomad. Maybe you find someone, maybe not. In any case it's more sand to play with and that has to be worth at least trying.

373

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

I still don't like the idea.  It would create station camping parties.  That'd escalate into to who has more heavies with plates in the station.  I do like the idea of adding 1 npc terminal to beta 2 islands.

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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374

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Yes yes let's ruin betas!

Just think about it:
At this point, as a beta owner, you can control up to 3 stations and about 1km radius around your bot, nothing more. Probes are mostly "oh look there WAS an enemy". Gatecamping is either "meh boring" or "jump bak to alpha they are too much" SAPs are in general "i'll hit it at day you hit it at night and pray the gods of random help one of us".

Now imagine outposts ain't lockable anymore. It's more than easy to get a hour or two when your enemy isn't online and then bring 100500 bots in his beta station and then just enjoy holding them inside or popping one by one on undock. PvP will turn into endless camping. Beta mining will turn into ninja mining. Do you really need that?

Instead of, it's much better to just add more betas (to give newbies a place to settle in), remove probes at all but instead make all the teleports on beta work like a probes, or even just show some kind of "Ville jumped through Hilmanoc 1 to Heydelhorn 2 at 18:46" message with log and stuff.

Have a productive day, runner!
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375

Re: A prediction (about outpost locking)

Line wrote:

Yes yes let's ruin betas!

Just think about it:
At this point, as a beta owner, you can control up to 3 stations and about 1km radius around your bot, nothing more. Probes are mostly "oh look there WAS an enemy". Gatecamping is either "meh boring" or "jump bak to alpha they are too much" SAPs are in general "i'll hit it at day you hit it at night and pray the gods of random help one of us".

Now imagine outposts ain't lockable anymore. It's more than easy to get a hour or two when your enemy isn't online and then bring 100500 bots in his beta station and then just enjoy holding them inside or popping one by one on undock. PvP will turn into endless camping. Beta mining will turn into ninja mining. Do you really need that?

Instead of, it's much better to just add more betas (to give newbies a place to settle in), remove probes at all but instead make all the teleports on beta work like a probes, or even just show some kind of "Ville jumped through Hilmanoc 1 to Heydelhorn 2 at 18:46" message with log and stuff.

He don't see that Line.  He doesn't get that it'll turn into a station camping spree JUST LIKE IT WAS WHEN LOCKED STATIONS GOT ADDED.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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