Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

This is not a crash, but rebalance. 6th lvl assignments gives ~10-20 mil nic. That's it. Ppl have lot of money, so will be new balance on market. This is a good one i think.

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Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Hunter wrote:

This is not a crash, but rebalance. 6th lvl assignments gives ~10-20 mil nic. That's it. Ppl have lot of money, so will be new balance on market. This is a good one i think.

In squad - i saw max 72kk. ~10-15 mins solo. smile

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

I wouldn't mind seeing mission nic payout reduced significantly to instead get a portion of pay from a random pool of resources based on the mission you were doing.

Ex. Harvesting mission pays nic and posts the recovered materials on market at nearest alpha ii term if on beta and then random components and/or mods that could be produced with gathered materials.

Especially on harvesting missions, you are killing plants that take so long to respond that could be getting put into player production. I don't think you should get nearly as much goods by doing the missions as you could by taking half your resources and manufacture with them though.

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

If you were doing exploration for example it might give you random junk you would normally pick up artifact in including cortex/kernals. Combat would drop damaged modules kernals fragments plasma etc.

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Some ideas:

Race Drones wrote:

Some ideas:
1.- Make mission NIC rewards from field terminals in an Outpost Named Sector, be affected depending from the outpost stability.

2.- Make the amount of ore in ore fields and plants fruits generated in an Outpost Named Sector, be affected depending from the outpost stability.

3.- If the amount of harvestable plants in an Outpost Named Sector is 100%, make it 70% and the other 30% to be filled by players with Incubators.

Rent-A-Bot: When not in market, Rent for 3 days your MK1 robot and modules T1, T2, T3.

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Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Burial wrote:

NIC needs to be removed from the circulation at a similar rate it's added, somehow. When the system rewards someone 1 million, it should claim the 1 million back somewhere else.

Back with broken beacons, we had terraforming charges that were expensive as *** and only way to get them was for NIC.

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

I think Zoom thinks 'everything is fine' anyway. Wasted breath.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

NIC is a resource. This resource is now ~5 times as available as 6 month before.
The fact alone is not the sole problem, but the fact, that it is instant implemented and never ajusted.

Imagine if you bring patch that increase mined amount by 5 or reduce mined amount to 20% to see what you did there. Such changes need to be slowly adopting with a lot small steps over 1-2 year time frame, not in one patch.

Together with still not correct bot patch, still buggy gamma and the patch that rendered existing Gamma bases in defenseless bases over night you have some issues to see why a real lot veterans left game the last 6 month (we have today similar playerbase than 6 month ago, but at least 50% of the actual player base were not active playing the last 12 month => imagine how game could be if it would have been possible to stop those veterans from leaving)

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Devs, be more imaginative with your maths.

Risk compensation multiplier, Extension multiplier, Difficulty bonus multiplier, In-a-row multiplier.

Rewards get MASSIVELY out of proportion pretty quickly between low and high levels when you use only the first power and constants. Powers and/or logs and/or exponentials are needed in so many parts of this game to allow for more flexible balancing.

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Ludlow Bursar wrote:

Devs, be more imaginative with your maths.

Risk compensation multiplier, Extension multiplier, Difficulty bonus multiplier, In-a-row multiplier.

Rewards get MASSIVELY out of proportion pretty quickly between low and high levels when you use only the first power and constants. Powers and/or logs and/or exponentials are needed in so many parts of this game to allow for more flexible balancing.

you forgot the "distance multiplier" that was mentioned somewhere wink

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Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Right now the income from missions is the only reason ANY of us are currently running them. Take that away and it becomes the dull grind it was before that is already old. As others have said, the market will adjust. I think the reason we dont see much on the market is corporations are self sufficient and as new players are recruited they do not have a need to look elsewhere for bots/equipment. Very little demand on the open market.

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Aye Pod wrote:

Right now the income from missions is the only reason ANY of us are currently running them. Take that away and it becomes the dull grind it was before that is already old. As others have said, the market will adjust. I think the reason we dont see much on the market is corporations are self sufficient and as new players are recruited they do not have a need to look elsewhere for bots/equipment. Very little demand on the open market.

wrong
not everyone is self-sufficient.

now, show me the "new player who wants to do production", can provide me with 2x mk2 heavy mech, 12x T4 weapon, and the other 20 modules T4 that go into that heavy PER day to cut my losses that i would have if i would find time to PvP inbetween repetative PVE and walking back and forth between two beta islands of different factions.

remember, to build all that, they need tons of PvP only material

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Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

ATm the new player are the real looser of market. And wait till it adjusted itself is by far too late

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Goffer wrote:

ATm the new player are the real looser of market. And wait till it adjusted itself is by far too late

they are ALWAYS the loser.

we get more money, it will make mineral prices go up, which will make item prices go up,
at the end... it will level down to where it was... vets beeing able to make nic and produce, noobs won't be able to do either of it.

this is a fixed cycle, since it all comes down to where the market price of items is always dictated by mineral prices, and the items are always the same.

oh... and maybe we should point out the development cycle:

  • somewhere in the past, missions asked you to gather material and turn them in
    -> players complained that by doing missions, raws got destroyed and player had to choose between Mission or gathering for crafting.
    A "golden triangle" of transport missions was so lucrative for the effort you had to invest, that it was patched out

  • in the middle, DEVs reacted and implemented random isotopes dropping in gather processes, and missions only asking for that
    -> players complained about the randomness and inconsistence of the drops. You would end up with a lot more gathered stuff then your bot could carry before finishing the mission.

  • now, we are back to square one, just with missions lasting like ~5min average, and the income exceeding what you could do with multiple accounts in sequers, doing the triangle by a factor of 500 or so, with a single account!

random mission generator is good... but giving you the full range of choices ALL the time, everywhere and at any time with the full reward, with not a single line of code of dynamic in there is really bad.

maybe one of the AC DEVs should log into Elite Dangerous for a moment, and check the bulletin board there. the number of mission templates there is more or less equal to what we have here. but running the same mission 100 times in a row at the same place requires you to seriously exploit a certain game mechanic...

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65 (edited by Ville 2016-01-14 21:43:26)

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

The developers give you a reason to fight over betas and your complaining?  The developers fix the low end mineral market and your complaining?  The developers make attractive incentives for players to live in Pvp zones and your all complaining?  The developers make something where players actively have to work as a team and your complaining?  There's no economic crash, there's NO producers because it's been the same 20 dudes playing for the past 6 months and now there is 100 active players and all of a sudden it's the developers fault for having no market?  Really?

The harvesting missions require the plants not to be decimated around a field terminal or outpost, but if your using an outpost your losing money.  Combats can be scary with roaming mobs.  And mining missions are hit and miss.  The exploration ones are ok depending on where the dice lands.  And all your numbers are wildly inflated.  Like seriously, you can make great money, I stopped after 10 billion as I had enough of the plant grind for a month but that was literally 6 hours a night grinding missions in stopped in a symb mk2. But what's Nic when you have everything else in terminal?  I mean seriously the tangible assets have always been where it's at and if you have access to everything why would you buy something?  Which leads me to the next point.  The games not balanced so people are doing non stop missions for hours on end.

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Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Annihilator wrote:

maybe one of the AC DEVs should log into Elite Dangerous for a moment, and check the bulletin board there. the number of mission templates there is more or less equal to what we have here. but running the same mission 100 times in a row at the same place requires you to seriously exploit a certain game mechanic...

That would basically look like every assignment pickup location (bases and field terminals) would give you every template once, and you can complete all of them once during a fixed timespan (say, a day). This would probably slow down the grind, and make you move around the islands.

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Jita wrote:

I think Zoom thinks 'everything is fine' anyway. Wasted breath.

That's unfortunate. But I'm not surprised.

68 (edited by Jasdemi 2016-01-14 22:40:02)

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

DEV Zoom wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

maybe one of the AC DEVs should log into Elite Dangerous for a moment, and check the bulletin board there. the number of mission templates there is more or less equal to what we have here. but running the same mission 100 times in a row at the same place requires you to seriously exploit a certain game mechanic...

That would basically look like every assignment pickup location (bases and field terminals) would give you every template once, and you can complete all of them once during a fixed timespan (say, a day). This would probably slow down the grind, and make you move around the islands.

This sounds terrible. Introduce a reward capacity for each terminal and field terminal. 100% default capacity. Completing missions for this terminal will reduce its reward capacity by x%. Capped at 25%?

Like energy, reward capacity can never be destroyed. On average the capacity will always be at 100% on an island. It will merely move to the least used(or random) terminal and filling its capacity up to 150% .

Just like boobs. Squeezing left boob will inflate the right one.


I have suggested this already before you introduced the new assignment system.

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Annihilator wrote:

they are ALWAYS the loser.

Not in that term. Each new player is aware that he needs to spend more time for same stuff than a veteran. This is nothing that differes PO from other games.

The new player lost are those not able to buy any equipment right now regardless if they would like to spend 5x the NIC it would have costed 2 month ago. Just check markets for stuff you would like to see on every market and see how empty markets are at this moment.

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Annihilator wrote:

wrong
not everyone is self-sufficient.

now, show me the "new player who wants to do production", can provide me with 2x mk2 heavy mech, 12x T4 weapon, and the other 20 modules T4 that go into that heavy PER day to cut my losses that i would have if i would find time to PvP inbetween repetative PVE and walking back and forth between two beta islands of different factions.

remember, to build all that, they need tons of PvP only material

wrong
Not everyone is as terrible as you are Anni at pvp. OFC new players cannot produce to sustain veteran pvp. Thats a no brainer. According to perpkill the last time you lost a mk2 heavy was 5/6/2015 http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/264224 Just because you say there is a demand doesnt mean there is. big_smile

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Annihilator wrote:

they are ALWAYS the loser.

we get more money, it will make mineral prices go up, which will make item prices go up,
at the end... it will level down to where it was... vets beeing able to make nic and produce, noobs won't be able to do either of it.

this is a fixed cycle, since it all comes down to where the market price of items is always dictated by mineral prices, and the items are always the same.


Isnt increased mineral prices are good for anyone who chooses to mine/harvest? Arent those players usually newer players?

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Aye Pod wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

they are ALWAYS the loser.

we get more money, it will make mineral prices go up, which will make item prices go up,
at the end... it will level down to where it was... vets beeing able to make nic and produce, noobs won't be able to do either of it.

this is a fixed cycle, since it all comes down to where the market price of items is always dictated by mineral prices, and the items are always the same.


Isnt increased mineral prices are good for anyone who chooses to mine/harvest? Arent those players usually newer players?


Stop stating facts.  It ruins the narrative.

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Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

well, harvested stuff prices are not high enough... they are beaten by mission rewards still.

ah come one aye pod... you cannot blame me for not losing heavies.

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74 (edited by Aye Pod 2016-01-15 02:17:39)

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Annihilator wrote:

well, harvested stuff prices are not high enough... they are beaten by mission rewards still.

ah come one aye pod... you cannot blame me for not losing heavies.

Nah Im used to you being one of the first to run but thank you for admitting that you dont really need 2 MK2 heavies to sustain your imaginary "pvp" losses.

Re: The great Perpetuum economic crash

Row assignment bonus should work in opposite direction, obviously.