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Well Zoom, we all know that the Scarab/Scarab Mk2 bonuses are crap. Can you change ONE of them to be an increase % of cargo capacity per level of either Glider or Hi Tech robot control? This would be a good happy medium for all the people screaming for larger bots sizes for hauling or screaming for cargo expander modules. Please consider this for our sanity.
Thanks in advance
The reason people are upset about small hauler sizes is that piloring a hauler takes full attentino in pvp so you can't have them operate all the time or you will be bored out of your mind.
Increasing the cargo capacity would also mean smaller windows of vulnerability.
The nouses are quite low for such a high end skill. Suggesting demob resistance as the benefit.
Increasing the cargo capacity would also mean smaller windows of vulnerability.
this is important. I'm opposed to anything that gives people bigger haulers, they are already too big.
Real Pvp isnt ganking haulers, or limiting people's hauling capacity. There is no issues with this in Eve, so why is it an issue here?
because eve different i guess
Real Pvp isnt ganking haulers, or limiting people's hauling capacity. There is no issues with this in Eve, so why is it an issue here?
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/130579/#p130579
-1, no care bear ***
So PvE hauling is okay to be hard but PvP hauling isn't supposed be to be hard? I am detecting slight inconsistencies.
SunnyJester wrote:Real Pvp isnt ganking haulers, or limiting people's hauling capacity. There is no issues with this in Eve, so why is it an issue here?
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/130579/#p130579
SunnyJester wrote:-1, no care bear ***
So PvE hauling is okay to be hard but PvP hauling isn't supposed be to be hard? I am detecting slight inconsistencies.
Hauling in Beta and Hauling in Gamma and Hauling in Alpha is all the same. It is just a necessary evil in the game. Why make it any worse than it has to be?? If people want to take the risk and haul more at once, then they should be afforded that option.
Rolafen Azec wrote:SunnyJester wrote:Real Pvp isnt ganking haulers, or limiting people's hauling capacity. There is no issues with this in Eve, so why is it an issue here?
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/130579/#p130579
SunnyJester wrote:-1, no care bear ***
So PvE hauling is okay to be hard but PvP hauling isn't supposed be to be hard? I am detecting slight inconsistencies.
Hauling in Beta and Hauling in Gamma and Hauling in Alpha is all the same. It is just a necessary evil in the game. Why make it any worse than it has to be?? If people want to take the risk and haul more at once, then they should be afforded that option.
By that logic you should support the linked suggestion as it is towards the same end.
Beside, kernel grinders don't get arbitrarily hard NPCs to grind against. Miners don't get arbitrarily high end mining equipment. The loss of cargo is not the only factor like the spendage of miner charges isn't the only factor in mining.
Real Pvp isnt ganking haulers, or limiting people's hauling capacity. There is no issues with this in Eve, so why is it an issue here?
Firstly in eve you cannot transport the equivalent of twenty heavies ten mechs, twenty lights, and twenty assaults in one hauler.
Secondly you cannot move anything in total safety while in empire
Thirdly the defining element of PvP in perpetuum is distance where's in eve it is not.
A)
IMHO, the scarab just needs its attributes fixed.
for what logic, the biggest hauler has to be the worst attributes of all bots in game is a riddle.
i know, that the limited legslots and accumulator are for the single purpose of limiting this bots shield-tank ability, compared to the lithus (which was an almost unkillable shield tank at that time)
as a hauler, this thing should be a slow, heavy armed and hard to kill target, in exchange for its large capacity.
B)
IMHO, the *** about the cargo space of the haulers is due to the fact that we have to move around raw, unrefined materials most of the time.
5 million helioptris is nothing in production, but requires a Lithus to transport.
Refining doesn't really exist in perpetuum, as all raw's are directly processed into complex commodities without any significant volume reduction -> commodities are a rare trade, because of a massive loss in production flexibility*.
someone with the best "refining" skills would never buy a commodity on the market if he could process it cheaper by himself.
*: just an example for lost flexibility.
Titanium Ore can be either refined into Titanium,
or processed to:
1. Plasteosine
2. Axicoline
3. Coalimin
4. Alligior
5. Hydrobenol
6. Briochit
HDT can even be processed into 9 different comodities, and there is no way to reduce the volume for transport.
I dont think the problem is with the hauler size to be honest. A single scarab can fit 20 heavies, 10 mechs 20 assaults and a bunch of lights. A second scarab can do enough pvp equipment to fit that kind of fleet five times over.
In my opinion that is actually overpowered.
The issue for me is that it only take around 25m titan ore to fill a scarab.
I think we need a volume increase on mods and bots and a volume decrease on ore and materials.
+1
Transporting raw ore hurts...
A)
all raw's are directly processed into complex commodities without any significant volume reduction -> commodities are a rare trade, because of a massive loss in production flexibility*.
I recall commodities were changed and significantly reduce volume for transport , I can't remember by how much though. Flexibility loss is spot on, and the real problem, unlike Eve where raw ores produce various kinds of refined materials , no need to combine. When you compare both systems, it's a real PITA and there is need to plan ahead in Perpetuum.
Very seldom my scarabs are not filled to the brim. Even if allowing them to haul more means making them say...slower. Still would be worth it. Or make a BIGGER bot for hauling, more expensive, harder to make and slower. It would be a juicy target on beta...
+1
Very seldom my scarabs are not filled to the brim. Even if allowing them to haul more means making them say...slower. Still would be worth it. Or make a BIGGER bot for hauling, more expensive, harder to make and slower. It would be a juicy target on beta...
+1
If you can put the equipment and bots needed for a heavy gang 20 strong including a decent sized ewar mech and assault support in one scarab how much bigger do you need? They are too big as it is.
I recall commodities were changed and significantly reduce volume for transport , I can't remember by how much though.
titan ore = 0.000025 U
Titanium = 0.001 U
Titanium consists of min 75 Titan ore -> 0.001875 U
so the "considerable" volume reduction is based on your refining rate. the more you waste due to bad refining rate, the better is your "compression".
it comes down to where i really want to have part of the old refining tables back.
Titan ore -> Titanium ore
HDT -> Isoproentol
Imentium -> Statichnol (OR Chollonin)
Stermonit -> Prilumium (OR Metachropin)
Helioptris -> Carbon filament
...
those should have a significant volume loss of ~90%, and maybe always produce a by-product we can either dump, or eventually use for low-cost production, like CONCRETE ammo for the terraformer modules.
(this step could cost a reasonable amount of NIC per U, but have a fixed efficiency)
then, i would take those REFINING products as input for Alloys, Compounds and Ceramics that are used in CTs
(this step could be affected by extension&co, but no additional loss in volume)
Firstly in eve you cannot transport the equivalent of twenty heavies ten mechs, twenty lights, and twenty assaults in one hauler.
I dont think the problem is with the hauler size to be honest. A single scarab can fit 20 heavies, 10 mechs 20 assaults and a bunch of lights. A second scarab can do enough pvp equipment to fit that kind of fleet five times over.
If you can put the equipment and bots needed for a heavy gang 20 strong including a decent sized ewar mech and assault support in one scarab how much bigger do you need? They are too big as it is.
Do you really need to restate the same thing over and over? We get it. The number of the day is 20.
EDIT: The bonuses on the scarab are terrible and do need a revision.
Lonwolf wrote:Very seldom my scarabs are not filled to the brim. Even if allowing them to haul more means making them say...slower. Still would be worth it. Or make a BIGGER bot for hauling, more expensive, harder to make and slower. It would be a juicy target on beta...
+1
If you can put the equipment and bots needed for a heavy gang 20 strong including a decent sized ewar mech and assault support in one scarab how much bigger do you need? They are too big as it is.
That is not the only things that Scarabs haul Jita.......
Why don't we make a terribul terribul thing and create, uhm... a bays on haulers? Main bay is about 20u or lesser and you can put there whatever you like, while specialized one is, well....specialized.
To make it looks less stolen from that other game, we can have this specialized deck reconfigurable in stations only (and having a cooldown 1h) so we get one Scarab that we can configure to carry whatever we want.
Oh and yes different configurations can have different max volume - more for raw mats, lesser for bots, etc.
If you value U compacteness in your raw resources do rare materials.
I would wonder if there was an option to lossfully turn standard ore into rare variants how many would use it?
If you value U compacteness in your raw resources do rare materials.
I would wonder if there was an option to lossfully turn standard ore into rare variants how many would use it?
if it comes with a loss, there is no point in doing it. especially from the standpoint of single account agents. Just look at the issue with commodities...
Regardless of the way the discussion is going, i believe we can all agree that the bonuses on scarab are just god awful.
Regardless of the way the discussion is going, i believe we can all agree that the bonuses on scarab are just god awful.
just list them, for zoom to remember:
up to +30 all-resist points on a 750 HP bot that cannot be missed, even with the highest dispersion weapons
up to 30% repair amount bonus on a bot that has not even enough hitpoints to survive two alpha strikes from a light bot, no slot left to fit a self repair module, and not enough of everything to use remote repairs
up to 30% more hitpoints. oh, counters at least the losses of the required LWF even a non-lwf fit gropho can run up to a non-lwf fit scarab.
up to 3 points smaller hitsize. down from "un-missable" to "99% chance to be hit"
up to 10% better shield absorb on MK2 version. yeah, the MK2 can at least fit lwf + shield, but that wont help making it survive much longer either.
up to 10% better industrial nexus buff - thats the usefull buff... one scarab with that makes the other 10 AFK alpha liquid miner scarabs cap-stable with medium miner prototypes.
I'd like to see a skill that would raise the slope capability of a scarab per level so that it could fly over terrain even lights can't go on
I'd like to see a skill that would raise the slope capability of a scarab per level so that it could fly over terrain even lights can't go on
which would make you ungankable, depending what route you chose. No risk = terrible idea!
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