Topic: EP limits

I ask to limit EP amount that possible accumulate on account to 200k.
Exceptions:
1) Extensions downgrade
2) EP reset/unlock
3) EP booster should still give 1440 everyday (not 2880) after accumulate 200k
4) maybe few other exceptions.

More reasons to login and play the game.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: EP limits

You mean more reasons to cross train/spend EP , and wait until the game is fun.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: EP limits

basicaly yes.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

4 (edited by JetNexus 2015-10-08 04:32:44)

Re: EP limits

Well, i've choosed this game because i can forget about it for a year or so and then return with no regrets. And this is the only online game i play. There's enough MMOs for the game addicts already.

This might help the game in general, but can't we help the game somehow without making it undesirable for "normal" people?

Or it might not help at all. Because there's may be people who don't mind playing rarely, but not intersing enough so they play other games or doing things. And then you telling them "Play or leave". Well, they'll finally make their choice very easily.

Re: EP limits

Why should there be a reason to login, if EP is capped at 200k, unless I spend Credits?

The only reason to be active EP-related would be, if you would need to spend some time active to get your EP.

But how measuring "active"? Standing with Sequer on Hdt field mining? Waste time killing NPCs with the research Agent?....

Re: EP limits

Activity should be encouraged, not forced.

Forcing activity puts an expiration date on it.

Re: EP limits

I dont see how an EP cap would give any extra incentive to play the game. Adding strange "features" like this that only affect VETs who have 200k extra ep seems like a waste of DEV time that could be used to actually create content.

8 (edited by Hunter 2015-10-09 14:14:21)

Re: EP limits

Concept is: If you not plays the game - you do not need EP. If you have old account - you should not have an advantage on new players, who start play when you decided play again. This is not fair for ppl who just found the game.

In the all normal/popular games every year raises level of players and equipment. So old ones who started play after long break must overtake the others.

This "feature" not for you. Moreover this is against me too. But new players should be first on care of developers.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: EP limits

I don't need EP or booster haven't logged in since my 'farewell'. Why would I need EP on a dead game?

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: EP limits

If one does not log in (at least to the char screen) every 3 days, EP will stop.  That is incentive whether you are an old player or new player. 
If you pay money to buy a booster you don't have to do this.  That might be incentive to pay not to log in or play.  Again new or old players.

Allowing EP to accumulate should not be tied to any of this.  That just limits what people can do

Your proposal will just make it so vets will log on, skill up something they might not need just to stay under the 200k cap and if the game ever interests them enuff and they find a reason to spend EP, they will have to downgrade skills and spend ICE/$$.  Not the model to make happy vets nor create equality between old and new players

Re: EP limits

The problem is that when new players activity increases, old players like a rawen swarm assault and chase them everywhere. Just because of they can. They have a lot of robots, a lot of guns and a lot of EP to be able beat noobs.

I still can't understand the DeVs, when they filmed that video on alsbale. When couple M2S just murdered toons of newbies under Brightstone. That should be a signal for them, but nothing has been done. Lot of ppl leaved just because of such injustice but DeV's still going follow the dead-end EvE-online EP politics.

I remind you. Eve dies. It had good popularity because of it released in the time of lack the good games. There are no inflow the new players. At the same time old players leaves it one by one.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

12 (edited by JetNexus 2015-10-09 18:22:19)

Re: EP limits

Almost new player here. Very glad that game haven't forced me to do PvE crap everyday for half a year every day to achieve an average server level, and haven't continued to do so even after to just stay at the good level. Saved me a lot of time and energy.
Maybe EP system is not ideal, but so do all the other leveling systems. I definitely prefer just wait and try to find something interesting to do while i'm suck than spend days doing necessary and often boring stuff while suck.

It's good to have vets, not just noobs, it makes game more interesting when you see someone who achieved something you may one day. And since you can pilot only one bot at the time, the vet's EP just gives them more choices.

And if they'll stop playing they stop accumulating EP after 3 days, remember? Logging in just for EP is already a lot: it's requires to have it installed remembering it almost constantly for months(years?), it's natural to play sometimes in that case. And if he have a booster and "quits" - well, he's a subscriber, he's paying money, so bother someone else smile

Eve had some brilliant features and ideas. Time based progression was one of the geatest. It's dying because of the last several years of failure, bad decisions and disappointment (overconfidence?). Because when people wanted something more that spaceships (walking on planets, stations, vehicles etc), and people knew that the developers were able to deliver it, but they won't with boring excuses. And now we have space games which almost from the start have things that eve devs and many players called a waste of manhours. And this exact same players going for this useless features, leaving these eve losers behind. It hav nothing to do with the character leveling. In fact, if not for the skills, eve might've been closed right now. Because it makes an amazing thing: many players get bored and stop playing, but still paying for the sub to train skills, and sometimes they're return from e these STOs, Elites, etc, because noone asked "are you playing or not?" just check your 2-year skill queue and do and play whatever the heck you want.

Re: EP limits

Hunter wrote:

The problem is that when new players activity increases, old players like a rawen swarm assault and chase them everywhere. Just because of they can. They have a lot of robots, a lot of guns and a lot of EP to be able beat noobs.

I still can't understand the DeVs, when they filmed that video on alsbale. When couple M2S just murdered toons of newbies under Brightstone. That should be a signal for them, but nothing has been done. Lot of ppl leaved just because of such injustice but DeV's still going follow the dead-end EvE-online EP politics.

I remind you. Eve dies. It had good popularity because of it released in the time of lack the good games. There are no inflow the new players. At the same time old players leaves it one by one.

Very right.

Re: EP limits

Hunter wrote:

The problem is that when new players activity increases, old players like a rawen swarm assault and chase them everywhere. Just because of they can. They have a lot of robots, a lot of guns and a lot of EP to be able beat noobs.

I still can't understand the DeVs, when they filmed that video on alsbale. When couple M2S just murdered toons of newbies under Brightstone. That should be a signal for them, but nothing has been done. Lot of ppl leaved just because of such injustice but DeV's still going follow the dead-end EvE-online EP politics.

I remind you. Eve dies. It had good popularity because of it released in the time of lack the good games. There are no inflow the new players. At the same time old players leaves it one by one.

It does not sound like even a EP cap would fix the problem as you see it.  You want vets to lose EP, stored up assets, the knowledge of how to play and the organization that they have created (well, some alliances are organized, some.. not so much).

Why were noobs out under BS?  Did they not have enuff to do on alpha, no pve, no indy, no fun?? That is the true problem.  the DEVs need to create fun content to keep players engaged.  then they become vets too smile  The DEVs need to shake up this game, not continue polishing the same content to meet our whimes.
IF new kids want pvp with no bot lose or easy mode. Maybe DEVs should look into building that for them.  PVP Tournament areas or group pve events (intrusions/rifts/whatever you call it), not silly limits for players who mostly cant be bothered to even log in and get more EP.

Re: EP limits

Hunter wrote:

The problem is that when new players activity increases, old players like a rawen swarm assault and chase them everywhere. Just because of they can. They have a lot of robots, a lot of guns and a lot of EP to be able beat noobs.

I still can't understand the DeVs, when they filmed that video on alsbale. When couple M2S just murdered toons of newbies under Brightstone. That should be a signal for them, but nothing has been done. Lot of ppl leaved just because of such injustice but DeV's still going follow the dead-end EvE-online EP politics.

I remind you. Eve dies. It had good popularity because of it released in the time of lack the good games. There are no inflow the new players. At the same time old players leaves it one by one.

The rules of the sandbox must be equal and clear for everyone, if the Devs step in every time someone stubs their toe then there is no point whatsoever in playing the game in the first place. The solution can NEVER be a Dev intervention into the sandbox, it simply won't work.

The solution, as I've been saying for years, is to give players a legitimate alternative reason to their default behavior. Nothing else has worked, can work, or will work.

Re: EP limits

Naismith wrote:

The rules of the sandbox must be equal and clear for everyone...

- This.
So firstone thing that DeVs must do first - make equal rules and conditions for everyone. If old player have 2-3 millions EP, it should be able for newbies too.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

17 (edited by JetNexus 2015-10-10 08:57:02)

Re: EP limits

Hunter wrote:
Naismith wrote:

The rules of the sandbox must be equal and clear for everyone...

- This.
So firstone thing that DeVs must do first - make equal rules and conditions for everyone. If old player have 2-3 millions EP, it should be able for newbies too.

They're able to have it. The same way as anyone. Everyone is perfectly equal in this aspect of the game.

Re: EP limits

There's two group of people, first is the people who doing something and go forward and second is a crybabies who don't want to do anything but bring anyone who's a bit higher than they down on their own level, so they won't feel disomfortable about how miserable they are.
Happens all the time in any game's suggestions forum and in real life.
For a normal human who is a total newbie it wont be a good news that devs nerfing the vets. Because they see the picture: "if i'll stay in this game long enough and spend money, i'll be devaluated somehow, so it's sucks from the begining to the end".

Re: EP limits

Hunter wrote:
Naismith wrote:

The rules of the sandbox must be equal and clear for everyone...

- This.
So firstone thing that DeVs must do first - make equal rules and conditions for everyone. If old player have 2-3 millions EP, it should be able for newbies too.

Yeah they did that back in 2010 when the game released. 1440 a day, 10,080 a week, 43,200 a month, 525,600 a year.

For 2-3 million EP, the vet had to pay 4-5 years worth of subscription, which rounds out at 480$ - 600$ per account.

Now for 2-3 million EP, the newbie has to pay the same subscription price for 2160 a day, 15,120 a week, 64,800 a month, 788,400 a year. Totals out to 2,5 - 3,8 years meaning rounding out at 300$ - 440$ per account.

TL;DR

Newbies get it 50% faster and cheaper then vets did.

20 (edited by Hunter 2015-10-10 11:30:23)

Re: EP limits

Naismith wrote:

TL;DR

Newbies get it 50% faster and cheaper then vets did.

But thats not enough. EP gap is too big.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: EP limits

If ep didn't exist in the game would more people start playing? Of course not. Would it help retain new players who joined? Of course not. That's why this idea is stupid. Would people join and play Eve online if it was buy to play and they had nobody playing? Yes, I think they would. That's what you need to fix.

When your population is so small it doesn't exist as in perpetuum you have to focus on making a great one player game. If they enjoy it on their own then they will enjoy it as a group. That is where perpetuum has failed.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: EP limits

Jita wrote:

If ep didn't exist in the game would more people start playing? Of course not. Would it help retain new players who joined? Of course not. That's why this idea is stupid. Would people join and play Eve online if it was buy to play and they had nobody playing? Yes, I think they would. That's what you need to fix.

When your population is so small it doesn't exist as in perpetuum you have to focus on making a great one player game. If they enjoy it on their own then they will enjoy it as a group. That is where perpetuum has failed.

I think the idea is not clear for you. We have the old players, who really able to spoil the game for new players. Many of them not acive now. But after good newbies inflow they will back. And i suggest to make some barriers for that players - not against active players.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

23 (edited by JetNexus 2015-10-10 18:21:41)

Re: EP limits

If they not active then they aren't accumulate EP. And we(noobs) do, right now. Problem solved.

Vets are the pillars of community, newbs needs them. Because vets creates guides, answering questions, writing software, producing stuff, leading and teaching new players in PvP.
You don't need to be the vet to easily kill a newbie anyway. Or troll in chats which may spoil their experience more.

The good question is how to make game interesting for the new corporations though. There's may be some good ideas of content for them. But it's not connected to EP at all.

Re: EP limits

If we want better equality then we don't need to look at EP, but assets and NIC that is where the grind is.

For equipment they got to get a good balance between tiers T1 to T4 needs to be closer in stats and maybe not linear but some tiers has different advantages so lower tiers don't become obsolete. Same with combat bots, bots with a wide ranges of ability but not excelling at anything and tight roles for bots that are very good at just one thing only but has it's disadvantages.


NIC should be harder to get or make NPC stuff in market more expensive, sounds wrong, but it gives NIC more value and people will start using the market more, this is good for new players to have a healthy market.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: EP limits

Bad idea.

-1

New players can have the same things I have and more as soon as they invest the same amount of time I have into the game.