Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

Maybe we're entering deep into theorycrafting now, but I'm really asking myself the simple questions:

1. What do you roam for if you're the only faction living on your beta?
2. Which one is better gameplay and involves more players? A tight circle of veterans "living" and hoarding and farming ad nauseam, or providing incentives for casual visitors from Alpha to have their fun with missions or ninja epriton mining or whatever.

I'm trying to extend casual gameplay as much as possible to betas, and break the circlejerk of the usual suspects there, pardon my expression.

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

DEV Zoom wrote:

Maybe we're entering deep into theorycrafting now, but I'm really asking myself the simple questions:

1. What do you roam for if you're the only faction living on your beta?
2. Which one is better gameplay and involves more players? A tight circle of veterans "living" and hoarding and farming ad nauseam, or providing incentives for casual visitors from Alpha to have their fun with missions or ninja epriton mining or whatever.

I'm trying extend casual gameplay as much as possible to betas, and break the circlejerk of the usual suspects there, pardon my expression.

+1

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

DEV Zoom wrote:

Maybe we're entering deep into theorycrafting now, but I'm really asking myself the simple questions:

1. What do you roam for if you're the only faction living on your beta?
2. Which one is better gameplay and involves more players? A tight circle of veterans "living" and hoarding and farming ad nauseam, or providing incentives for casual visitors from Alpha to have their fun with missions or ninja epriton mining or whatever.

I'm trying to extend casual gameplay as much as possible to betas, and break the circlejerk of the usual suspects there, pardon my expression.

I agree with everything you have said but that's all based on the premise that only one faction can ever live on beta. Fix the premise, not the game around that.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

DEV Zoom wrote:

Maybe we're entering deep into theorycrafting now, but I'm really asking myself the simple questions:

1. What do you roam for if you're the only faction living on your beta?
2. Which one is better gameplay and involves more players? A tight circle of veterans "living" and hoarding and farming ad nauseam, or providing incentives for casual visitors from Alpha to have their fun with missions or ninja epriton mining or whatever.

I'm trying to extend casual gameplay as much as possible to betas, and break the circlejerk of the usual suspects there, pardon my expression.

i have NO IDEA who you are talking about fuuu

there is a little bit truth in what jita writes... as usual. IMHO you could think about making velocity nexus and highways NOT STACK, and avoid straight roads.

The thing you MUST change... is 120 kph min-maxed heavy mechs (min weakness, maximum DPS), and even more... DETECTION as is, is BAD for Beta.

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Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

The *** 120kph heavy is a joke or the 105 demob proof heavy.  I mean dumbest thing ever.

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Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

But fixing that is another point in the roadmap list and is offtopic here.

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

DEV Zoom wrote:

But fixing that is another point in the roadmap list and is offtopic here.

partially - topic was teleportGRID and highways. Robots travel speed is indirect connected to that.

so, would it be hard to make velocity nexus buff and highway not stack?
As far as i can tell, for that you "just" need to put it somewhere different in the equation.

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Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

Seriously, open a topic for it because this is how 20 page topics are born that are full of tangents.

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

There isn't enough people playing for a 20 page topic tbh.

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Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

done.

so, when will this hit the PTS?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

DEV Zoom wrote:

Maybe we're entering deep into theorycrafting now, but I'm really asking myself the simple questions:

1. What do you roam for if you're the only faction living on your beta?
2. Which one is better gameplay and involves more players? A tight circle of veterans "living" and hoarding and farming ad nauseam, or providing incentives for casual visitors from Alpha to have their fun with missions or ninja epriton mining or whatever.

I'm trying to extend casual gameplay as much as possible to betas, and break the circlejerk of the usual suspects there, pardon my expression.

Dear Dev Zoom,

You are definitely right there and some time ago I did propose something along those lines. Think about it as npc null sort of. Please allow me to link it below for your own perusal. There is also a pretty photoshop pic to illustrate the idea better.
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/125667/#p125667

Ps. Would be nice to know if you read all the eloquent features and discussion topics, just post a seen or something.

Thanks and regards
Anton

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

Annihilator wrote:

so, when will this hit the PTS?

First I will show the other 2 betas here, only then start implementing them.

Toninu: I do read mostly everything even if I don't reply. Larger islands are however beyond our technical possibilities right now.

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

DEV Zoom wrote:

Maybe we're entering deep into theorycrafting now, but I'm really asking myself the simple questions:

1. What do you roam for if you're the only faction living on your beta?
2. Which one is better gameplay and involves more players? A tight circle of veterans "living" and hoarding and farming ad nauseam, or providing incentives for casual visitors from Alpha to have their fun with missions or ninja epriton mining or whatever.

I'm trying to extend casual gameplay as much as possible to betas, and break the circlejerk of the usual suspects there, pardon my expression.

Nothing deep there Zoom, it's simple stuff with little theorycrafting.

1. Jita lives on Alpha and gathers his clique to come visit us on weekends usually. The only corporations actively living on Beta for a long time has been our alliance (CIR, 77th, Cons), NSE (our friends) and OTHERS for a while. Everyone else pretty much stays on Alpha (bottable spawns, scarab-mining liquid ores, etc) until weekend hits.

2. Anything that promotes new players and new corps to go out and claw their slice of Beta is a good idea, as an outpost holder absolutely love the field terminal missions and the taxes outposts will receive from this as for the first time in the history of the game it's in my interest to have random people on my island.

The steps you're making right now - PVE revamp finishing off (you really need to get field terminals out into Beta 1 and Beta 2's), tying taxes into outposts, redesigning the TP network with cutting off Beta 2 from Alpha, buffing facility points on Beta and nerfing them on Alpha, they all lead towards the same direction:

1. Current Beta residents either stay where they are (as our real-estate loses value the moment Beta 2 is cut off from Alpha) or move to Beta 2's, freeing Beta 1's up for other corporations instead of Beta 2's being useless wastelands of active-hack farming.
2. Big vet corps that are Alpha residents because they don't want to risk anything either stay on Alpha and produce assets at a worse rate, or they get off their *** and move to Beta (creating content in the process)
3. All corps have a reason to recruit newbies and have them doing missions near their Beta outposts (taxes for corps, content for newbies - before this it wasn't worth the time to recruit a newbie)
4. Alpha loses its role as the apex wealth generator with the removal of static spawns, missioning becomes the new apex wealth generator (best missions on Beta, see point 1-3 how it ties in with each other)
5. With less internal TP's and more walking on highways, there is more opportunity for content & conflict = fun

None of this will happen overnight, but it's the direction you're taking the game right now. I've always been the first to call you Devs out on ideas I thought were stupid and I never minced words about it, now for the first time in a very long time I'm honestly hopeful about the future as the last couple of ideas you've come up with are awesome.

Your ideas however, hurt all the veteran corps that dwell on Alpha and only venture out to Beta for PVP. They will lose their apex wealth generation, their production will get hurt as they'll be forced to haul the Shin-Telly-Hersh triangle to maintain 100pts facilities, and they will have a harder time harassing Beta corps from Alpha if Beta 2 is cut off from Alpha.

Of course they're gonna complain and throw tantrums.

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

You know what? Screw you, you agreeing with me brings out my worst paranoias lol

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

DEV Zoom wrote:

You know what? Screw you, you agreeing with me brings out my worst paranoias lol

He is largely correct, theres nothing wrong with that.

The only problem in all those plans is this bit:

Syndic wrote:

get off their *** and move to Beta

With station locking thats just not possible. It creates a two sided game that one side inevitably loses and its been that way for years. Will this suddenly make another two hundred people log in and form new factions and forces changing the PvP dynamic? Of course not, thats ridiculous.

You seem blind to the real problem being two sided wars, blind to the god awful state that balance was put in by the last patch (literally everyone says revert it and you've done nothing for months) and blind to the incredible amount of opportunity this game has in many areas such as balance, new stuff and bringing in money for the game.

I've really tried hard to provide an alternative and be constructive over the years but i'm done. Good luck with the game and perhaps we shall see you in Barcelona o/

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

There are 3 unlocked NPC terminals already in the game, with Spark Teleport removal they will become easier to use. Being campable won't change by adding more places to camp, the potential of being camped in a station is an incentive to make the effort and capture one.

Nothing can live on Beta under the current heat of interzones and spark teleports that our alliance can choose to bring to the field whenever we feel like it. That needs to change.

The locking mechanics need to stay because most vets have a lot of accounts. Leaving a combat account in an enemy station is trivial. Scouting the outpost is trivial, dropping out of the station and murdering people when the scout calls for it is trivial.

DEV Zoom wrote:

You know what? Screw you, you agreeing with me brings out my worst paranoias lol

It's a hard road being Persona Non Grata wink

92 (edited by Burial 2015-08-23 13:30:06)

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

DEV Zoom wrote:

You know what? Screw you, you agreeing with me brings out my worst paranoias lol

You say one but do another. You said you want the game more casual and you said you want the affairs toned down to a corporation-level that'd be more vibrant and easier to get into.

People talk about resetting the servers all the time and you should take it as a wake-up call. You've *** up the balance and it's too hard for new entities to emerge. Focus on giving new entities the tools to compete and have fun instead of giving even more tools and power to the old entities or the new will never be grown-up enough to provide the old with the meaningful content they need to keep playing.

Instead of humoring the idea of a legit pet system in the form of the assignment tax that only increases the need and density of blobs, focus on making Beta outpost ownership mechanics more forgiving to smaller and newer corporations, so more entities have a chance of emerging.

Instead of thinking about daisy-chaining Betas even further, so the one with the most scouts available has the easiest time keeping everything secure and danger scouted for, focus on making PVP more accessible to solo players and newer corporations, so every time they go out doesn't keep defaulting to suicide by blobs.

It's frustrating. You know what to do, but when it comes to making the right decisions, you go with some terrible ideas as long as they're wrapped in a nice narrative without thinking about the fun elements of your game and the current issues dwarfing the growth.


TL;DR: BUFF NEW ENTITIES, NERF THE BLOBS AND WE MIGHT HAVE AN ENTERTAINING GAME WORTH PLAYING...
... or let's continue talking about resetting and enjoying 20 players online. big_smile

93 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-08-23 22:47:36)

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

Burial wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

You know what? Screw you, you agreeing with me brings out my worst paranoias lol

You say one but do another. You said you want the game more casual and you said you want the affairs toned down to a corporation-level that'd be more vibrant and easier to get into.

People talk about resetting the servers all the time and you should take it as a wake-up call. You've *** up the balance and it's too hard for new entities to emerge. Focus on giving new entities the tools to compete and have fun instead of giving even more tools and power to the old entities or the new will never be grown-up enough to provide the old with the meaningful content they need to keep playing.

Instead of humoring the idea of a legit pet system in the form of the assignment tax that only increases the need and density of blobs, focus on making Beta outpost ownership mechanics more forgiving to smaller and newer corporations, so more entities have a chance of emerging.

Instead of thinking about daisy-chaining Betas even further, so the one with the most scouts available has the easiest time keeping everything secure and danger scouted for, focus on making PVP more accessible to solo players and newer corporations, so every time they go out doesn't keep defaulting to suicide by blobs.

It's frustrating. You know what to do, but when it comes to making the right decisions, you go with some terrible ideas as long as they're wrapped in a nice narrative without thinking about the fun elements of your game and the current issues dwarfing the growth.


TL;DR: BUFF NEW ENTITIES, NERF THE BLOBS AND WE MIGHT HAVE AN ENTERTAINING GAME WORTH PLAYING...
... or let's continue talking about resetting and enjoying 20 players online. big_smile


Boosting income that can be gained from BETA outpost ownership, is merely one aspect of a number of things that need to be done in order to make this part of the game enticing.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Boosting income that can be gained from BETA outpost ownership, is merely one aspect of a number of things that need to be done in order to make this part of the game enticing.

oh,
really?

how is that related to the highway grid ? tongue

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

It was much easier when new players had access to balanced EWar, very useful on Mk1 light bots that are extremely easy to build for a new corporation, along with assault platforms doing decent DPS.

Perhaps it might be an idea to revert at least the EWar changes, although it can be argued that the EnWar changes for the Ictus should be reverted too.

Bring viability back to the game. smile

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

Annihilator wrote:
Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Boosting income that can be gained from BETA outpost ownership, is merely one aspect of a number of things that need to be done in order to make this part of the game enticing.

oh,
really?

how is that related to the highway grid ? tongue

im sorry i didnt Quote Burial....

Idiot.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

DEV Zoom wrote:

I'm a bit late with this due to all the crap happenning, but let's get back to talking about beta.

Here is what I had in mind:
http://content.perpetuum-online.com/ima … etwork.png

It's dirty photoshop for now, but if you like it I can employ similar stuff on the other islands regarding connectivity, teleport distance from outposts, highway amount, and so on.

We are almost 2 weeks away from this, any more advancements on this?

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

Norhoop:
http://content.perpetuum-online.com/ima … etwork.png

Domhalarn:
http://content.perpetuum-online.com/ima … etwork.png

Domhalarn was a tough nut due to the location of the NPC terminal, but I tried my best to make the connections sort of similar.

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

Your moving the npc spawns right?  I see a highway running through a large red npc spawn

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Teleportgrid / Highways

Ville wrote:

Your moving the npc spawns right?  I see a highway running through a large red npc spawn

In case the change to roaming spawns doesn't happen with this rework then I'll keep than in mind.