1 Topic by Lemon (edited by Lemon 2015-08-18 21:55:46)

  • CIR
  • Sportscaster
  • Offline

Topic: Balancing PvP & Robots: Rock, Paper, Seth

I want to spark some discussion in regards to balance in its current iteration. I think we can agree it has seen far better days.

The current FOTM trend is horribly painful to partake in as the dynamics involved in combat have reduced(Due to balance), the perceived focus on superior numbers has increased and we have lost any vision of what PvP used to involve.

If we look at the statics, we can see a rapid increase in the use of yellow bots, especially heavies with the most recent change in balance.

I would like to generate reports from battles, given proper access to the tabled information. These reports will  detail out top used bots over time, top damaging bots in a engagement grouped by type and size. This would then be reported back as far as possible to map balance change patches and give us a view at exactly how players reacted and evolved from these.

I have my own infrastructure I can pull all of this down to I just require access to either the old information or current data set

How much do numbers and specifically players impact battles? Review the below footage for yourself and observe your own findings. All of these videos are pre-current balance.

Videos wrote:

6 62nd vs ~8+ RG/CIR/MORTE - Note the disorganized play pre-Lemon appearing on the field. The organization of the red fleet changes with Lemon appearing and disapearing. *FC organization play a HUGE role in PvP

~15 CIR vs ~30 M2S+Friends  Out position and out numbered, notice how the lesser overcome superior odds.

The following two fights detail roughly even numbers with drastically different play from passive-passive to Attacker-Defender and their results.

Fight 1

Fight 2

In closing, the majority suck at this game and with out being coddled or hand held die horribly. The current balance doesn't help and the fights are stale.

Fully tank the Seth, stack repair bots behind, push until everything is dead.

What do?

EDIT: PS my guess once given  data is the same 3-5 people doing 40-60% of the total damage in EVERY engagement despite a battle sizing from 5-60 players.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle
  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Balancing PvP & Robots: Rock, Paper, Seth

ANother idiotic tale of Lemon thinking he is good.

Did you even watch those video's? I'd invite you to watch them again with an abacus.

The outcome of both fights was decided before they turned up, large amounts of stupidity / popcorning fleets aside.

You can think your imaginary skill was what swung the fight if you want Lemon but the rest of us can breath through our nose AND our mouth.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
  • CIR
  • Sportscaster
  • Offline

Re: Balancing PvP & Robots: Rock, Paper, Seth

Jita wrote:

ANother idiotic tale of Lemon thinking he is good.

Did you even watch those video's? I'd invite you to watch them again with an abacus.

The outcome of both fights was decided before they turned up, large amounts of stupidity / popcorning fleets aside.

You can think your imaginary skill was what swung the fight if you want Lemon but the rest of us can breath through our nose AND our mouth.

Thank you for this insightful and contributing post to balance Jita.

I said nothing of my 'skill swinging fights', I mentioned, how once I was on the field in the 62nd video above. We stopped taking needless losses and gained composure as a fleet forcing the enemy to react.

WE/I STILL LOST, my point is in the movement and play of the players and the intent behind it play a huge role in PvP.

Nice rebuttal, it should be in CD

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle
  • BKK
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Balancing PvP & Robots: Rock, Paper, Seth

i wonder how was the FC of the fleet that attacked the ethos base a few days ago. from all the screens i saw, and the outcome, it must have been an intentional loss, considering how many MK2 seths have been attacking.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
  • PHM
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Balancing PvP & Robots: Rock, Paper, Seth

These was another wonderful feature that was "working as intended" that pretty much screwed everything up.  Way to go Avatar Creations, way to go.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.
  • JOKE
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Balancing PvP & Robots: Rock, Paper, Seth

Lemon wrote:
Jita wrote:

ANother idiotic tale of Lemon thinking he is good.

Did you even watch those video's? I'd invite you to watch them again with an abacus.

The outcome of both fights was decided before they turned up, large amounts of stupidity / popcorning fleets aside.

You can think your imaginary skill was what swung the fight if you want Lemon but the rest of us can breath through our nose AND our mouth.

Thank you for this insightful and contributing post to balance Jita.

I said nothing of my 'skill swinging fights', I mentioned, how once I was on the field in the 62nd video above. We stopped taking needless losses and gained composure as a fleet forcing the enemy to react.

WE/I STILL LOST, my point is in the movement and play of the players and the intent behind it play a huge role in PvP.

Nice rebuttal, it should be in CD

You turned up with a mesmer and follow rr, of course it changed the fight dynamic. They had waspish and arbalasts before that!

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

7 Reply by Race Drones (edited by Race Drones 2015-08-19 00:24:49)

  • PHM
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Balancing PvP & Robots: Rock, Paper, Seth

Lemon wrote:

Fight 2

The lonely yellow dot behind the enemy fleet line (from Fort Beavus II to TMB) was me in a camaleon mk1 jamming the enemys long range gropho (...or the Hell Dog Tyrannos).

Pay attention how many mk1 bots in battle, when mk1 bots was usefull, now, mk1's are useless, NOW think why new people leave this game.

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.
The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.
All is in "The Matrix".
See Beyond the Obvious.
  • CIR
  • Sportscaster
  • Offline

Re: Balancing PvP & Robots: Rock, Paper, Seth

Jita wrote:

You turned up with a mesmer and follow rr, of course it changed the fight dynamic. They had waspish and arbalasts before that!

and 62nd reacted properly, Kited as it was still possible, and prevented loss to finally snag a few more kills.

You may not remember this one but this was a great fight, despite the invisible walls from messed up slope calculations resulting in many losses for both sides.

Less numbers, got the SAP, mitigated losses, moral victory.

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle
  • CIR
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Balancing PvP & Robots: Rock, Paper, Seth

Lemon wrote:

and 62nd reacted properly, Kited as it was still possible, and prevented loss to finally snag a few more kills.

You may not remember this one but this was a great fight, despite the invisible walls from messed up slope calculations resulting in many losses for both sides.

Less numbers, got the SAP, mitigated losses, moral victory.

That was a great strategic victory despite heavy losses, it dropped Danarchov below 50% stability and allowed all of CIR to return and access our warchest. I almost gave the order for everyone to log-in and drop out of the station despite it being locked ahead of schedule.

Our subsequent total victory versus the NATO server coalition started with this one single strategic victory.

10 Reply by Obi Wan Kenobi (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-08-19 07:01:23)

  • CIR
  • Agent
  • Offline

Re: Balancing PvP & Robots: Rock, Paper, Seth

Naismith wrote:
Lemon wrote:

and 62nd reacted properly, Kited as it was still possible, and prevented loss to finally snag a few more kills.

You may not remember this one but this was a great fight, despite the invisible walls from messed up slope calculations resulting in many losses for both sides.

Less numbers, got the SAP, mitigated losses, moral victory.

That was a great strategic victory despite heavy losses, it dropped Danarchov below 50% stability and allowed all of CIR to return and access our warchest. I almost gave the order for everyone to log-in and drop out of the station despite it being locked ahead of schedule.

Our subsequent total victory versus the NATO server coalition started with this one single strategic victory.

Yes but no...

As a member of NATO & being at that fight (unless I'm thinking of another fight) it was a good fight. yes we lost a lot but we won what we needed to.

Novastrov winning that little war came down to a few things.

1. Poor leadership by NATO & I dont just mean with FCs but as a coalition.
2. so many bad pvpers in NATO... more so from the member corps from Alsbale.
3. Merkle.... need I say more?

We (NATO) had more people than Novastrov but the above factors & a few other things meant we could not sustain the war.
The war ended not due to any 1 devastating loss (tho merkle throwing the Coalition army into an obvious killing zone didn't help) but again players getting board with the game & dissatisfaction with DEVs lead to us lossing a large amount of population.

Tho Nova did decimate TOG & their base on that Gamma island (forgot name) The one & only time I remember CIR actually killing a corp in game tongue

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue