Re: Facility balance

Naismith wrote:

That sounds like it could work out really good, what are your thoughts on future Beta vs Gamma balancing? I don't have a Gamma production going on right now since CIR (and by extension, our alliance) produces and has been producing everything on Beta for years. If memory serves, a full T3 Gamma facility was in the area of 335 pts? Correct me if I'm wrong please. smile

It does also sound like extensions won't be much of a factor though, once relation and station levels are considered, how are you looking at max-extension producer vs mid-tier producer efficiency wise?

T3 facilities have 125 base points and T3 upgrades add 50 each, but I'm not sure now how many you can connect to one. Anyway, it can go high.

So extensions (or relations for that matter) didn't do that much so far either in such a facility because the higher you go, the less each additional point will help in the end. With this change we would simply bring betas a bit closer to gammas (and further from alphas), but for those who want to squeeze every bit of efficiency out of their production processes, gammas will be still the best choice. It's about normalizing stuff, basically, putting beta really between alpha and gamma, instead of beta just being somewhat better than alpha while gamma is way up above all.

But as I already said, it is true that the beta boost will be only significant for those with low relations or extensions. Maxed out characters will still see an increase but it might be very small.

Re: Facility balance

Lemon wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Jita wrote:

I think the numbers are about right. People still won't do industry in the stations though.


Yeah, for the simple reason of the risks getting your stuff locked in.

Side conversation but this requires inactivity on the station owners part, locking is a  3+ day process.

Problem is, locks force everyone looking to live on Betas into an alliance. Be the 60% or get kicked off by the 60%. Even if everything works on paper, it's still a problem because there's not enough players interested in that type of play. No amount of Beta reward is going to make players play more in the way they don't enjoy or want to.

Give people options to enjoy the game without being forced into an alliance and there's a small chance the game might grow.

Re: Facility balance

Burial wrote:

Give people options to enjoy the game without being forced into an alliance and there's a small chance the game might grow.

Current game:
1. fight and play to gain a terminal
2. use the open beta terminals (qty 3)
3. Use diplomacy and use someone else's beta terminal

Your plan:
1. use an open beta terminal (qty all)
2. Grief players as they try and use open terminals


Do you really think more players will come to beta if the terminals are open?  You must be delusional!  We all know open stations will just become the next griefing mechanic of the game. I can see a new player coming out to beta and then getting camped in by someone (with no sparks to help them out).  Let's all be honest, the agenda you are pushing is truly just for your folks benefit.  Open or closed beta will not get more new players to beta, time to get off the soap box.

Re: Facility balance

Let's not make this a lock/no lock topic please.

Re: Facility balance

Beta main terminals should be 100 across the board.

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Re: Facility balance

Steam charts are highly influenced by lack of active corporations (no reason to contest Beta, no reason to do anything but bot on Alpha), and very little content besides mining and grinding spawns (normally or with a bot running). Steam charts are a reflection of the game as a whole performing poorly in today's MMO pool, not a reflection of Beta mechanics.

Field terminals and spark removal give a much needed variable into the equation.

Re: Facility balance

@Altera: I was ranting more about the two-sidedness.

Re: Facility balance

DEV Zoom wrote:

Let's not make this a lock/no lock topic please.

then stop *** around and do something to put it to the test, Do you even see how dead your game is?

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Re: Facility balance

Naismith wrote:

I was always curious why do you even have limitations on how many points you can spend on a station? Why can't I dump 10 stability points into refining and have a kick-ass best-in-game refinery if I don't mind everything else sucking balls?

Zoom what do you think about this?

Re: Facility balance

Naismith wrote:
Naismith wrote:

I was always curious why do you even have limitations on how many points you can spend on a station? Why can't I dump 10 stability points into refining and have a kick-ass best-in-game refinery if I don't mind everything else sucking balls?

Zoom what do you think about this?

Given that corporations can easily occupy multiple outposts nowadays and thus have most of the facility types at "best-in-game" level... no.

Re: Facility balance

Hypothetically we already have the same thing with Gamma facilities.

Wouldn't that require transporting all kinds of materials and commodities everywhere in vulnerable scarabs across Beta?

Doesn't matter really it was a random idea. smile

Re: Facility balance

The problem would be balancing 10 levels in a way that it doesn't make gamma facilities laughable in comparison.
Unless you want the levels correspond to 0-50-75-...-196-199-200, but then what's the point. The problem is, as always, the minmaxers.

Re: Facility balance

Beta is gonna be pretty good with the 25 pts increase plus the taxes from the field terminals.

I hope when you look at Gamma it won't be a case of just putting Epriton back out there for the Nth time, reckon we need something... new. big_smile

Maybe mining towers could actually... mine ore. big_smile

39 (edited by Burial 2015-08-18 19:34:23)

Re: Facility balance

How many points would the lvl 10 facility have? 550?

Naismith wrote:

taxes from the field terminals..

Any form of passive income from owning a station is a bad idea.

40 (edited by Annihilator 2015-08-18 19:42:56)

Re: Facility balance

DEV Zoom wrote:

The problem would be balancing 10 levels in a way that it doesn't make gamma facilities laughable in comparison.
Unless you want the levels correspond to 0-50-75-...-196-199-200, but then what's the point. The problem is, as always, the minmaxers.

well, thats the whole intention for boosting beta facilities - those don't need you to log in and place an energy wells to be powered with all the resource points.

Beta outposts only require you to log in once a year if someone bothers to drop your stability. On gamma **** needs to expose his X accounts to roaming npcs even if no player attacks.

if you boost beta facilities only a few points, the crys for "carrots" to build gamma bases will come afterwards exponentially  (you know, needs more reward for the risk)

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Re: Facility balance

Burial wrote:

How many points would the lvl 10 facility have? 550?

Naismith wrote:

taxes from the field terminals..

Any form of passive income from owning a station is a bad idea.

It's not passive missioners still got to mission!

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Re: Facility balance

That's still passive income for the owner. The game should discourage station hoarding instead of adding more reasons to it.

Re: Facility balance

You guys really think that shuffling some facilities points around will get more players in the game, stuff need to go deeper than that and I gave my suggestions with special bonuses. New players will just see empty alpha1s and just assume the game is empty and dead. First impressions counts.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Facility balance

how did a multi-millionair former WoW DEV with lack of leading qualities at his own game companie once write:

Up to 90% of MMO Real Estate is Wasted

in perp this means:
Alpha 1 islands are stepping stones that new player leave after a few days either because they quit the game, or moved forward to alpha 2 to run higher tier missions.
Alpha 2 islands are empty islands covered with static decorational buildings with no life - and its another stepping stone to beta, which doesn't offer anything new aside from even more NIC and better production facilities then alpha 2 already had....

and then also cut off 2 gamma and 2 beta islands from the gameworld, because an inactive group of player considers it as "their personal property"

whats left... is a gameworld void of actual player and NPC live...

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Re: Facility balance

please stay on topic....  You guys have 18 other open beta threads..

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Re: Facility balance

The basic numbers is not bad.

Maybe as Ville said, Beta Terminals should have everything at 100, and maybe the outposts the same (100) with additional bonuses by increased stability. The risks as too high at Beta to just a single increase need a bit more to incentives players to go there. The Gammas will be still way better, who will use them.

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Re: Facility balance

Naismith wrote:

Adding information to the facility like this:

Repair 125 pts (75% return income)

Or something like that would be a great addition. A lot of people don't know how much you get income-wise from repair/factory/prototyping etc.

Adding income from recycling and refining would be a nice addition and real good incentive to cultivate industrial centers, on top of whats already coming.

Zoom what are your thoughts on this? Shouldn't require much coding but it would be a small QoL increase for all players who aren't familiar with what owning a station actually gives you. (just a display of how much % you get returned from NIC spent in facilities).

Would it even be possible for you guys to expand the whole NIC-return with the recycler/refiner so it returns a percentage of the commodities/ore into a corp-storage? Or is that too much coding?

Re: Facility balance

Celebro wrote:

You guys really think that shuffling some facilities points around will get more players in the game, stuff need to go deeper than that and I gave my suggestions with special bonuses. New players will just see empty alpha1s and just assume the game is empty and dead. First impressions counts.

*sigh* No, this won't save the game. Nothing we do to industry will save the game, that's why we won't get stuck in a 2 month development cycle trying to reinvent industry while we have 30 other things to do on our list, which I firmly believe will overall benefit the game as a whole.

On topic: I think all 100 on beta main terminals would be still ok.

Syndic: yes it would be nice but it's very complicated to do with all the formula juggling. I wouldn't want to dive into that right now.

Re: Facility balance

100 point

+1

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18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Facility balance

DEV Zoom wrote:
Celebro wrote:

You guys really think that shuffling some facilities points around will get more players in the game, stuff need to go deeper than that and I gave my suggestions with special bonuses. New players will just see empty alpha1s and just assume the game is empty and dead. First impressions counts.

*sigh* No, this won't save the game. Nothing we do to industry will save the game, that's why we won't get stuck in a 2 month development cycle trying to reinvent industry while we have 30 other things to do on our list, which I firmly believe will overall benefit the game as a whole.

On topic: I think all 100 on beta main terminals would be still ok.

Syndic: yes it would be nice but it's very complicated to do with all the formula juggling. I wouldn't want to dive into that right now.

I was actually talking about two separate things, one being the refining recycling return to owner which as you said and I suspected is too complicated at the moment.

The other is a small QoL improvement, just making it public information somewhere in the game that owning an outpost returns 50-75-100% of NIC spent in facility X, Y, Z. A lot of corps didnt know about this until we told them about it, and in many cases it was an incentive for them to go out there and own an outpost. Does that make sense to you Zoom, or is it too much hassle for you guys?