1 (edited by BeastmodeGuNs 2015-07-25 04:49:19)

Topic: Syndicate robots(discussion)

Theres not one already so, heres beautiful discussion thread.

Dev Zoom wrote:

Syndicate robots
Hybrid robots “lite”
-We were never really able to turn the idea of hybrid robots (mixing around different robot parts to create new robots) into reality due to balancing issues
-Basically the story is that over the years on Nia, the Syndicate was able to research alien robot technology, and create a new line of custom robots using various parts, combined with Earth technology
-Literally a fourth faction - a whole line of new robots, but using existing robot part models
-Specialized roles - better in something, worse in something else, you know the drill
-Obviously bonus for machine guns
-Only way to acquire them is through the token shop, by purchasing CTs

-Still very early in development, ideas for roles are welcome

I think as far ewar goes for roles based in current mechanics for these Syndicate robots go, the Interference modules could probably be used, or maybe bonuses for demobs or range or something and use demobs since they really dont have a particular faction use.(Troiar MK2 Demob range bonus gone after re-balancing plus zenith ewar range gone)

As for general purpose(Fast speedy, armor tanky or rep tanky or shield tanky or something)eh... I got nothing.

Here are a few base topics we can discuss though i'm sure other things will popup:

-How should general faction style be(refer to general purpose comment)

-What exactly should ewar type be using current non-faction ewar mods/types and how?(Demobs and Interference emitters for example)

-Should tank type be Repair, shield tank, or armor resist, or maybe make shield and add Bonus to increase ACCU gain with energy injector or something?

-What kind of purpose would these bots serve for various combat activities as machine gun based with whatever type of tank they would run.

-etc.

Discuss.

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Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

Make them slower, but higher HP and bigger DPS.
What color they will be? Purpleish as Arkhe?

Lets use it as a basic idea.

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Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

Inda wrote:

Make them slower, but higher HP and bigger DPS.
What color they will be? Purpleish as Arkhe?

Lets use it as a basic idea.

Could be possible, though considering that making them slower considering how slow bots tend to be with firearms anyway, there does need to be compensation, some possibilities could be fallout range buff, and as you said, higher base HP then other bots for examples, for heavy maybe have base speed slower or as slow as seth but with higher base HP and add extra falloff bonuses to mech, assault, and heavy perhaps.

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Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

How about a new type of machine gun for them? I'm thinking artillery type of minmatar: Higher range, low rate of fire, high (alpha) damage (range might be 3/4 of rockets, but does NOT avoid LOS). You could use the machine gun models and items, just change the name+stats. This way you could maybe vary the use a bit and you would compensate longrange/shortrange as the other races have, instead of only machine guns.

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

Khetar wrote:

How about a new type of machine gun for them? I'm thinking artillery type of minmatar: Higher range, low rate of fire, high (alpha) damage (range might be 3/4 of rockets, but does NOT avoid LOS). You could use the machine gun models and items, just change the name+stats. This way you could maybe vary the use a bit and you would compensate longrange/shortrange as the other races have, instead of only machine guns.

In this case you we have auto cannons as well which work towards that, just add falloff bonuses to the bots but make it racial to firearms and theres your long range without avoiding LOS, maybe buff base damage on autocannons slightly or something, but between auto cannons and Machine guns, make some small tweaks and you already have these basis covered fairly.

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Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

tbh, falloff is something that makes no sense on any other current weapon aside Laser.

making robot bonuses around unlogical weapon stats is an error to begin with.

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Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

add tank "armata" 500k HP, speed 50-60km/h, damage ~10k big_smile
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/O0QdgaJdtJM/maxresdefault.jpg

Just @ Game

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

I'd really like to hear from Dev Zoom what is possible and that isn't for them in robot parts mix & match?  What are our limits here using whats already in game?

I'd posted some ideas on freeing up slot choices & bonuses in a different thread. But I just had another thought, how hard would it be to create blank configurable robots for players? My Riveler has 4 head, 6 torso & 5 leg slots; can I instead buy a blank Riv body with 15 slots to distribute between head/torso/leg? Or 14 since it is not as efficient? Can I pick/change/modify the bonuses currently assigned different bodies? Change mining bonuses to armor repair and accu regen or maybe shield? Increasing customization/personalization options would be awesome. What are the Dev's limitations on how much they can do?

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

* Syndicate robots don't necessarily have to have a common faction trait, like either shield or armor affinity (other than the machine gun bonus). Remember that they will be combined from various factions, and although we could simply take and combine those factions bonuses, that's not necessary. And the concept is that efficiency and usability is the Syndicate's main aim when doing these bots, not being tied to any one faction's technology.
* The only thing that's fixed is the number of chassis slots of the used chassis part. We can't add extra slots to it, but if necessary we can take away (but the 3d model will still have it). Head/leg slots can be anything since those are not visible.
* They are planned to be the same color as the Arkhe.
* You can think about industrial Syndicate bots too. (Tried a Lithus on Riveler tracks, doesn't look bad.)

10 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-07-25 12:15:12)

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

there's so many ways you can go with  a system like this.

First off, Zoom. Is the idea to split modular bots into tieres like we have now? Light - Assault - Mech - Hmech?

If not then the statistical combinations you can make with.... about 27 ? different mechs would be staggering.  that would be figuring out how to balance 81 separate modules. And how their combinations function together.

I would think starting a small number of modular bots & expanding the number over time would be the best approach.


Can I also strongly recommend taking lessons from CCP 7 EVE on how balance & diversity can work for us in this game. learn from others mistakes ect ect

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The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

Obi: no, we don't want to create every combination smile And due to the 3d models not everything works together even, that's why we're picking them by hand and not doing a random system with it.

But yes the plan is to create the same light, light ew, assault, mech, mech ew, hmech classes, both combat and industrial, one bot per each. Maybe a glider if the Scarab's legs work with anything else, didn't try that yet.

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

well you dont actually have to "create" all those different bots. You just need to assign for example: ewar bonuses & traits to a small number of modular parts with  in each tier.

Second Question smile

How many Head, arm, leg modules (for each tier of bot) would ya be looking for. As an example. 3-5 varients of heads, legs arms?

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

How many Head, arm, leg modules (for each tier of bot) would ya be looking for. As an example. 3-5 varients of heads, legs arms?

You should rather think in robots, not robot parts. Like "I'd really like to se a syndicate robot with a Kain head, a Zenith chassis, and Tyrannos legs, with role bonuses for armor repair and demobilization."

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

Come to think of it, we could even make a contest for this, and the winners would actually receive the robots they suggested.

15 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-07-25 12:36:44)

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

DEV Zoom wrote:
Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

How many Head, arm, leg modules (for each tier of bot) would ya be looking for. As an example. 3-5 varients of heads, legs arms?

You should rather think in robots, not robot parts. Like "I'd really like to se a syndicate robot with a Kain head, a Zenith chassis, and Tyrannos legs, with role bonuses for armor repair and demobilization."

So what your saying is these "modular" robots will not be similar to EVE where players can mix & match parts to make (space ships) aka mechs ?

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

So what your saying is these "modular" robots will not be similar to EVE where players can mix & match parts to make (space ships) aka mechs ?

No no, sorry if this wasn't clear, but these will be fixed robots like the current ones. We're simply taking various robot parts and fit them together by hand, but there won't be any ingame possibility for this. Hence hybrid robots "lite".

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

There is a very open niche for actual (logi) remote repair and remote transfer robots. Termis just isn't being used since it received it's bonus change, and lets be honest its a bad mining bot anyway.

The logi department in itself definitely needs fleshing out mechanic-wise (heavy cap usage of RR, have to rely on shield tank 99% of the time, etc etc).

Additionally, if you go the machinegun bonus route perhaps a drawback of the race might be a very small capacitor in comparison with the other races?

Are we designing glorious WINMATAR here?

There better be some rust and duck tape.

18 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-07-25 12:45:21)

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

Well thats a shame. I had always thought "Modular" bots would have been interchangeable parts. But ok will throw out those ideas smile

Some real Logi bots would be Cool

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

a Termis with Seth legs looks nice

oh, and a defense turret on scaled lithus wheels looks REALLY good big_smile, but would need an additional passable slope/terrain layer.

and dont forget the riveler head on camy legs with the invisible torso wink

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Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

This one could probably work as a type of assault, dug it up from the old burn hershfield event 3 years ago. http://i.imgur.com/u56yVEc.jpg

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Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

Theres a few interesting ones in here as well, the Ictus body, Lithus bottom, and Troiar head one in the mid, and then that weird little fella on the bottom left in the screeny.

http://content.perpetuum-online.com/ima … ybrids.jpg

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Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

I want to see a tanking class.  Something with ERP recovery onboard the robot.  No dps bonuses and slow while being prone to demob.

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Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

Call me crazy but i dont understand why we need another bot class or t5 when we have two classes of unused versions of all bots and 10 unused classes of all modules

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Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

yeah...
we don'T need new classes (vertical progression)
we need more variants (horizontal progression)

neither do we really need another faction, when we already got 5 underused ones. (underused because you already have to mix different factions in fleet compositions for the smallest task)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Syndicate robots(discussion)

DEV Zoom wrote:

* Syndicate robots don't necessarily have to have a common faction trait, like either shield or armor affinity (other than the machine gun bonus). Remember that they will be combined from various factions, and although we could simply take and combine those factions bonuses, that's not necessary. And the concept is that efficiency and usability is the Syndicate's main aim when doing these bots, not being tied to any one faction's technology.
* The only thing that's fixed is the number of chassis slots of the used chassis part. We can't add extra slots to it, but if necessary we can take away (but the 3d model will still have it). Head/leg slots can be anything since those are not visible.
* They are planned to be the same color as the Arkhe.
* You can think about industrial Syndicate bots too. (Tried a Lithus on Riveler tracks, doesn't look bad.)...

Come to think of it, we could even make a contest for this, and the winners would actually receive the robots they suggested.

I'll throw in a bid.

Notes-- My combat alt runs a Seth. I just went back to lasers on it from trying firearms for a bit; I've gone back and forth with them before. So I do have some firearms use. My extensions are not "vet" level but mid level.

MANTICORE
Class: Heavy mech specialized in firearms.
Faction: Syndicate

Legs- Symbiont Wheels- This account is my industrial alt & drives Riv/Symbiont. I like the Symbiont's wheels with the pointed fronts. The whole wheel base has a kind of tankish look to them. I'll start my build off with that.

Torso- Gropho Chassis - I'd like to pop a Gropho chassis on next; if 6 turrets can be placed into slots made with missiles in mind. If that isn't possible, unfortunately the 2nd best option is probably the Symbiont again.

Head- Gargoyle Head- Truthfully I'd prefer the Symbiont head, but I'm basing this build off the feet so don't want 2 or even all 3 from the same bot. tongue

Reasonings, thoughts & bonuses: Firearms have already been shown to be effective in specific builds. When adding in a new combat heavy mech focused on firearms, I tried to think what would be useful without just adding damage or getting in the way of the roles the other faction heavies already fill.

I've based this combat heavy off the Symbiont wheels first off for the increased maneuverability. The Manticore would have the same speed and slope capacity as a Symbiont. This would tie it in speed with the Mesmer yet be the only combat heavy with this slope capacity. Firearms have the shortest default range, which is even worse if you try to use the -50% range chemo shells. Like EM guns, firearms needs to be quick/agile to get in range.

In addition to having the worst range, firearms have the worst hit dispersion. With a hit dispersion of 12, they only have a 83% chance of hitting another combat heavy mech like a Seth. I do have lvl 10 precision firing, which gives me the max possible dispersion reduction before modules are added, and that only drops it to 8.4. My short range med lasers have a dispersion of 5.6 before modules and even EM guns would be around 7 something. Neither of those would need to equip a weapon stab to reliably hit mechs, emechs & heavies. Firearms need weapon stabs, which means they get hit by the demob penalty for equipping them. Imo the wheel base seems like it would make for a more stable firing platform. This made me think of the Manticore's new robot bonus. The current heavies all have faction weapon bonuses & a pure damage bonuses. This bot has the faction bonus for Firearms but instead of the pure damage bonus it gets 1.5%-3% hit dispersion per level adv. robotics. That would give it a 15%-30% hit dispersion reduction at lvl 10 which is the same as 1-2 T4 stabs which are 15% each.

I like Ville's idea of ERP onboard as well and it could be turned into a robot bonus. You could make it 2-3% per level of adv. robotics to all damage types. A T4 ERP converts 70/30/15/15 for 130 across all 4. 30% ERP effect verse all damage types would be 120. The specific numbers could be debated. However the bot would not be allowed to equip an ERP module. It trades the always on ability for the better results the others get by equipping damage type specific ERPs.