Topic: Beta industry

beta industry used to have:

The best station facilities in the game

Big red spots of every mineral at a time when minerals were not infinite and alpha had smaller green / yellow spots

Between 3 and 5 big red epriton spots within 1200m of every beta station

Every mineral on island

In order to make living on beta viable from an industry point of view I would suggest:

Having four times the mineral spawns per beta island - the increased frequency will give you a much better chance of a mining location close to 'safety'. This will encourage risk.

Bring Titan back to beta - we shouldn't encourage alpha Indy at all

Rebalance station services, it was fine before you brought in alpha 2's, go back to that

The overall aim is to provide within a relatively safe distance of every beta outpost everything you need to run a corporations industry. Get people off alpha and living in Beta where the reward is good and the risk is worth it. Stop industry on alpha being the standard. Discourage doing just epi mining on beta and the transport of minerals.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta industry

Zoom mentioned, he will look into Island balancing after the missions revamp is done if I right.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

3 (edited by Burial 2015-07-19 11:03:33)

Re: Beta industry

Jita wrote:

Having four times the mineral spawns per beta island - the increased frequency will give you a much better chance of a mining location close to 'safety'. This will encourage risk.

Bring Titan back to beta - we shouldn't encourage alpha Indy at all

Rebalance station services, it was fine before you brought in alpha 2's, go back to that

+

Mining/harvesting on Betas should also be more efficient than currently, and not just to station owners.

Re: Beta industry

Jita wrote:

Rebalance station services, it was fine before you brought in alpha 2's, go back to that

contradicting with your "unlock all station argumentation.
Pre- and After Intrusion 2.0 a corp "living" on beta, was forced into having either all three outposts or beeing allied with the owner of the other stations.
simply because you could never do the whole industry in one outpost alone with the desired efficiency.

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Re: Beta industry

Annihilator wrote:
Jita wrote:

Rebalance station services, it was fine before you brought in alpha 2's, go back to that

contradicting with your "unlock all station argumentation.
Pre- and After Intrusion 2.0 a corp "living" on beta, was forced into having either all three outposts or beeing allied with the owner of the other stations.
simply because you could never do the whole industry in one outpost alone with the desired efficiency.

Thats rubbish. We did the whole industry thing from initia just fine.

It is true that if you live on the same island you are probably going to have some sort of agreement. Thats not to say  you have too - look at when Norhoop was opened for new people, multi factions on the same island can happen. Its more likely to be one faction per beta island though. I'm of the opinion six factions are better than two.

There are more mechanics for this now too - if they increased the mineral spawn rate it would be feasible to box your station in with walls and an entrance and have .. relative .. safety with minimal scouting.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta industry

still, your approach is simply... boring.

what does increased mineral spawn rate solve? nothing, because for the time you have to stand still in one location with a 200% defenseless Mining mech. 200% because he cannot defend himself, and he is not allowed to (pvp flag mechanics).

so for beta attractivity, it doesn't really matter if the mining ground is right under the outpost, or a few km away.

ontop of that, the field terminals will provide you with a drop-off location max 2km away from any point on the island. Most likely , you can even mine directly into them instead of a field can.

walls?
useless NIC sink. ist almost embarrasing to remember that i am responsible that they made it into the game...

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Re: Beta industry

Annihilator wrote:

still, your approach is simply... boring.

what does increased mineral spawn rate solve? nothing, because for the time you have to stand still in one location with a 200% defenseless Mining mech. 200% because he cannot defend himself, and he is not allowed to (pvp flag mechanics).

so for beta attractivity, it doesn't really matter if the mining ground is right under the outpost, or a few km away.

ontop of that, the field terminals will provide you with a drop-off location max 2km away from any point on the island. Most likely , you can even mine directly into them instead of a field can.

walls?
useless NIC sink. ist almost embarrasing to remember that i am responsible that they made it into the game...

Of course it matters. Its the difference between double plate shield making it back to station or not. sure you will die sometimes but not all the time. Walla kind of have their place as an anti roamer mechanic. bombs imbalance that somewhat but nothing is perfect.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta industry

bomb for walls? that was last year...

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9 (edited by Ville 2015-07-19 16:58:59)

Re: Beta industry

I was sure Titan was on Beta?

Also pretty much plus one across the board.

What gets me is the complete balance of the system.  Alpha1 are terrible, rightfully so.  The outposts on alpha1s have some facilities that are comparable with alpha2.  But the others facilities are terrible.  Then we have alpha2s across the board decent facilities across the board.  Then you move into Pvp area.  You have beta 1s and 2s that have either two facilities a little better than alpha and the rest on par with alpha2s or two really good ones and the rest on par with alpha 1s...  Then gamma has the best of the best.  Anything in a Pvp area should be the best of the best.  Betas should have more facility points period.  I said this very thing 3 years ago dynamic ore systems don't work on beta.  Because: fixed red spawns, too dangerous and logistics heavy.  Why risk miners and transport on the field for HOURS when I can mine semi afk on alpha and do just a quick logistics run into beta to refuel?  Same thing goes for gamma and annoying roaming npcs,  the packs are too big on gamma for a single combat to handle so you either have two choices:  force group play, good luck with server population or mine it on alpha and haul it in.  Forcing group play is good in some instances but if I need a sequer load of HDT And I roll a riveler out to mine it, I shouldn't get pushed away from my mining area by roaming npcs every 5 minutes, it's bullshit.

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Re: Beta industry

Well ideal scenario would be the return of the big red fixed spots ofc but knowing how the devs feel about reverting things I think a happyish medium would be lots more spots and so a greater chance of one in a decent place

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta industry

the risk of beeing killed afk needs to be the same on all islands.

robots need to explode on regular basis - thats the core of the ingame industry.
since PvP is to unreliable to achieve that, it needs to be solved via NPCs.

the game has not, and will probably never get, the critical mass of players to remove assets from storages at least as fast as they are produced...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Beta industry

Annihilator wrote:

the risk of beeing killed afk needs to be the same on all islands.

robots need to explode on regular basis - thats the core of the ingame industry.
since PvP is to unreliable to achieve that, it needs to be solved via NPCs.

the game has not, and will probably never get, the critical mass of players to remove assets from storages at least as fast as they are produced...

While the begining of that is mainly true its nothing to do with the topic. If Beta provides an environment where industry is worthwhile but risky then more will die anyway.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta industry

99% of suggestions revolves around reverting years of development with zero idea or consideration for the problems that resulted in community outcry for the features we have now.

It will be entertaining to watch how far will zoom go with his appeasement, which after the Gamma revamp would pretty much be flat out admitting every development decision in the last 3-4 years has been a mistake.

Re: Beta industry

Jita wrote:

While the begining of that is mainly true its nothing to do with the topic. If Beta provides an environment where industry is worthwhile but risky then more will die anyway.

it has lots to do with the topic. there are lots of cross-connection that DO matter.

Naismith wrote:

99% of suggestions revolves around reverting years of development with zero idea or consideration for the problems that resulted in community outcry for the features we have now.

QFT,
though, somehow i feels wrong to read a non-insulting sentence about the DEVs work from you, which made me read it wrong at first: tongue

notice how the meaning is shifted just by adding a "," and finishing earlier?:

Naismith wrote:

99% of suggestions revolves around reverting years of development with zero idea or consideration for the problems, that resulted in community outcry ...

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Re: Beta industry

If they listened to community outcry the terrible balancing patch would be reverted.

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Re: Beta industry

Naismith wrote:

99% of suggestions revolves around reverting years of development with zero idea or consideration for the problems that resulted in community outcry for the features we have now.

It will be entertaining to watch how far will zoom go with his appeasement, which after the Gamma revamp would pretty much be flat out admitting every development decision in the last 3-4 years has been a mistake.

While I understand what you say and can see how you would see it this way from your point of view i'm open to other suggestions as i'm sure is everyone.

I do think that the features put in place for beta 1 were a stop gap before gamma. They have their place but on a sliding scale and thats why we think not on beta 1, yes on beta 2. That aside i'd like to hear your opinions.

How in your opinion can it be possible for small corps to take part in beta without being allies / having agreements with the alliances??

What can be done to break from the current two alliance cycle?

What incentives does beta need and disincentives does alpha need?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta industry

Jita wrote:
Naismith wrote:

99% of suggestions revolves around reverting years of development with zero idea or consideration for the problems that resulted in community outcry for the features we have now.

It will be entertaining to watch how far will zoom go with his appeasement, which after the Gamma revamp would pretty much be flat out admitting every development decision in the last 3-4 years has been a mistake.

While I understand what you say and can see how you would see it this way from your point of view i'm open to other suggestions as i'm sure is everyone.

I do think that the features put in place for beta 1 were a stop gap before gamma. They have their place but on a sliding scale and thats why we think not on beta 1, yes on beta 2. That aside i'd like to hear your opinions.

How in your opinion can it be possible for small corps to take part in beta without being allies / having agreements with the alliances??

What can be done to break from the current two alliance cycle?

What incentives does beta need and disincentives does alpha need?

*Watching the wheel be reinvented

Opening Beta 1's wont address any of your above mentioned questions on its own, and in the current state will only change how players are being herded and purged. (especially the two alliance one)



New players have no mechanics to combat a vet players like myself targeting them on a Beta 1. The only way to overcome me would be superior numbers 10+ and some fundamental knowledge.

Back when Beta was populated, alpha based players had the golden triangle as a economic foundation for combats on top of industry. (Hopefully new assignments achieve this access to nic?)

Until new players can support their basic needs in a cost effective way(INTUITIVE METHOD) to grow and learn they will continually leave the game.

Vets spend 1 day of effort for a month worth of supplies. I remember having to organize 20+ players to produce a few days worth of supplies.

Now you have a worse situation than launch as a new player but the added pressure of hardcore players free of any obligations besides seeking a 'thrill' or 'pvp' hunting. (The same feeling the server had fighting M2S dupped fleets)

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Re: Beta industry

The gap between what newbies field and what a maxed out Heavy MK2 character can do is immense, and they should definitely look into ways for shrinking it.

Re: Beta industry

Lemon wrote:
Jita wrote:
Naismith wrote:

99% of suggestions revolves around reverting years of development with zero idea or consideration for the problems that resulted in community outcry for the features we have now.

It will be entertaining to watch how far will zoom go with his appeasement, which after the Gamma revamp would pretty much be flat out admitting every development decision in the last 3-4 years has been a mistake.

While I understand what you say and can see how you would see it this way from your point of view i'm open to other suggestions as i'm sure is everyone.

I do think that the features put in place for beta 1 were a stop gap before gamma. They have their place but on a sliding scale and thats why we think not on beta 1, yes on beta 2. That aside i'd like to hear your opinions.

How in your opinion can it be possible for small corps to take part in beta without being allies / having agreements with the alliances??

What can be done to break from the current two alliance cycle?

What incentives does beta need and disincentives does alpha need?

*Watching the wheel be reinvented

Opening Beta 1's wont address any of your above mentioned questions on its own, and in the current state will only change how players are being herded and purged. (especially the two alliance one)



New players have no mechanics to combat a vet players like myself targeting them on a Beta 1. The only way to overcome me would be superior numbers 10+ and some fundamental knowledge.

Back when Beta was populated, alpha based players had the golden triangle as a economic foundation for combats on top of industry. (Hopefully new assignments achieve this access to nic?)

Until new players can support their basic needs in a cost effective way(INTUITIVE METHOD) to grow and learn they will continually leave the game.

Vets spend 1 day of effort for a month worth of supplies. I remember having to organize 20+ players to produce a few days worth of supplies.

Now you have a worse situation than launch as a new player but the added pressure of hardcore players free of any obligations besides seeking a 'thrill' or 'pvp' hunting. (The same feeling the server had fighting M2S dupped fleets)

Lemon we know the problems, you don't like my solution (which is fair enough), come up with a better one. If this station *** doesn't work in the next six months we need a plan c, d, e etc.

It has to be low dev work, potentially high impact. If its gonna work we'll ofc support it.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta industry

Burial wrote:

The gap between what newbies field and what a maxed out Heavy MK2 character can do is immense, and they should definitely look into ways for shrinking it.

^^ So true. The problem is the DEVs go & add dumb skills like combat robot & Hi-tech robot specialist extensions which do nothing but extend the gap between new & old players.

I would love to know the thinking behind that move sad

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

21 (edited by Burial 2015-07-21 13:08:23)

Re: Beta industry

Mining could be fixed by something as simple as increasing the amount of fields on an island and adding an island-wide public aura for yield that stacks with outpost auras.

Re: Beta industry

why not allow mining towers to be built on Betas & have them give a general mined amount boost. Just make it so they can run off a small charge for a few hours

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Beta industry

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

why not allow mining towers to be built on Betas & have them give a general mined amount boost. Just make it so they can run off a small charge for a few hours

This is the same stuff I'm talking about, you could cross over Gamma and Beta All day long with things like deployable turrets for defense and Offense that are 15 ~60 minutes long.  That you have to Power Manually.

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Re: Beta industry

imho they should put in filler islands between alpha beta and beta gamma connections.

small stuff with no place to build, no artefacts, but plants and rare npcs...

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