Topic: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Since a couple people fail to comprehend my condensed version, here is the long, explained one.

Afk mining is referred to when people go afk for at least a couple hours and their bot continues to mine. Without using illegal software, this can be done by either sequers or scarabs.
As these 2 bots have low mining capacity, they can NOT influence the market in any significant way. If you dont believe me, i can show you what 8 rivelers do in an hour. So, the ore is nice, but not big enough to cause game-wide imbalance.

Multiboxing is referred to when a person uses multiple clients (accounts) to play the game. No illegal software used. The balancing around this one is fragile. If you dont limit the multiboxers, they are going to run over the "normal" one-account people. On the other hand, if you limit the multiboxers too much you 1) piss off the biggest donators of the game and 2) the corp suddenly lose a lot of miners and producers (for example, gamma is unminable right now due to reds and energy usage by bases isnt negligible)

Botting is referred to when a player uses illegal software to automate his accounts. He can go to bed or do something else while his robots continue to farm as if he was manually controlling them. This is a major problem. Botting isnt even that hard from technical aspect, especially with farming npcs and old missioning. This creates massive imbalances to the game economy and should be controlled asap.


Now that we have the basic terminology down, here's my gripe:

1) The DEVs absolutely refuse concrete proof of botting that would get players banned in pretty much every other game. If players are able to see a guy's botting, then the DEVs should be able to see it from a mile using game codes.

2) The DEVs would rather implement some mechanics that indeed make botting hard and yet makes every other legit account feel like taking a bullet to the head.
The reintroduction (or "fix" as some call it) of reds on gamma made it inferior to mine there. Yet the buildings arent cheap and the upkeep takes many a cryoperine that the corp members are apparently going to be forced to mine at alpha freaking 2. Do you understand what this means for gameplay? You are finally a nullsec, gamma, base-owning corp that is forced to go to carebear islands because gamma and beta just arent worth it. (The field size is not even a close enough buff for reds out there wanting to kill your ***)

3) Upcoming reds on alpha 2. Again, by trying to combat botters, you are putting all accounts to risk. Especially the multiboxers. When I go to beta mining with 8 rivelers, im not going to run away from reds. I am going to die if they find me. But thats ok, im mining epriton and i am willing to take the risk. But on alpha, mining ore that is 20x less worth than epi? Nobody sane would want to do that. You are hurting everyone, especially the multiboxers that indeed supported your game. (past tense if you dont stop introducing changes that outright tell us to uninstall perpetuum)

4) Get a freaking botting detection sofware and start banning people. This is one of the few games i know that doesnt ban botters. I mean, why shouldnt i use botting software to get ahead? Its against the tos, but im not gonna get banned, so i might as well do it. <-- this kind of mentality is killing both the economy and the game

5) Stop making such extreme balancing changes. I dont see any DEVs playing. Which is ok, if they are busy coding, giving us new stuff. But if its balancing, please STOP doing it so quickly and harshly. It looks good on paper. But when it comes to real gameplay, it most often isnt how you want it. For example, getting reds to alpha 2 is just going to make my mining operations change to alpha 1, where i know you wont introduce reds due to n00bs and all.

6) The scarab incident - the scarab was able to use 3 nexuses that depleted his accumulator yet still managed to give us buffs. I have been to the game since october last year. The "bug" has been there since october last year at least (probably longer, but i can safely tell you this long). How can you make high-level balancing changes if you cant even find a bug that every player that is at least 2 weeks old knows? Disappointing.

7) The "it was intended" speech. Yeah, "it" might have been intended, but what good is it if its bad as hell and makes the game worse for everyone? (replace "it" with many of the balancing changes you disliked)

8) Good job on missions, but please, get your act together for balancing. Or at least start listening to the players when they tell you stuff about the reds and how its going to affect the game. Because apparently the devs dont play the game they are coding.

9) And the summary for botting: by trying to lower the botters using game mechanics, they are basically giving the middle finger to multiboxers (the biggest donators to the game). And if you believe a corp of 10-20 people can get any gamma rolling without some multiboxers mining, you're up for a surprise.

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

+ to it all

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

1) if you have proof post it

2) Gamma mining is fine, you lack perspect. Its literally impossible to die to rats or PvP if you are not afk

3) Resource accumulation ANYWHERE should have risk.

4) I agree. I would also say if you have proof post it. I also think when your talking about how you have abused a bug for months and done nothing about it you are just as bad.

5) I think its important that Alpha 1 mining, ratting and missions are nerfed to prevent exactly this

6) see 4, your a hypocrite

7) I'm more bothered about stuff that wasn't intended and still isn't fixed

8) reds were around long before you and they worked fine

9) I've built two gamma bases on my own using multi boxing while dealing with red rats. Sometimes you will die, get over it.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Jita wrote:

1) if you have proof post it

2) Gamma mining is fine, you lack perspect. Its literally impossible to die to rats or PvP if you are not afk

3) Resource accumulation ANYWHERE should have risk.

4) I agree. I would also say if you have proof post it. I also think when your talking about how you have abused a bug for months and done nothing about it you are just as bad.

5) I think its important that Alpha 1 mining, ratting and missions are nerfed to prevent exactly this

6) see 4, your a hypocrite

7) I'm more bothered about stuff that wasn't intended and still isn't fixed

8) reds were around long before you and they worked fine

9) I've built two gamma bases on my own using multi boxing while dealing with red rats. Sometimes you will die, get over it.

1) proof has been shown by corp members, the devs did not respond well

2) its impossible to die of reds with 1 account, when you multibox, you will inevitably die, no matter how much you try to avoid them.

3) I believe that only higher tier resource should have risk, but both point are valid.

4) I havent used any software, I never will until its legal

5) Mining isnt nerfed, you only have smaller fields. For ratting, we have beacons. For missions, we have beta outposts.

6) I dont understand your reasoning

7) I'm genuinely bothered about both

8) Then why did they get removed? Also, they might have worked with higher game population. The game that is balanced for 500 people might not be balanced for 50.

9) Sure, but you've been around for a long time. When NSE first started, we went through blood and tears to get a seth, now we can produce gamma terminals with ease.

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Posting proof is against the EULA and forum rules.

Botting has been widespread on Alpha 2 islands, particularly Hershfield and Shinjalar.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

The red rats got removed because your allies were abusing the me hanics to grief people on alpha.

Its impossible to die on gamma to rats. Drop a base on the mining spot, rats come you just dock.

I'm saying Alpha 1 should be nerfed MORE. No liquids. No Titan.

If you have bptting proof then post it. Put it on YouTube. I've heard so many accusations about people its all become bullshit really, I've had some dumb CIR people accusing me.  Proof or STFU already.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Red NCPs on alpha2 were removed as a band aid fix due to rampant griefing. As AI stuff is now fixed, I hope they're coming back asap. Made alpha2 life much more interesting.

9) Sure, but you've been around for a long time. When NSE first started, we went through blood and tears to get a seth, now we can produce gamma terminals with ease.

Yet your corp still had to sell me 40 ICE few days ago, to acquire some NIC. I'm not judging, but get off your high horse, son.

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Jasdemi wrote:

Red NCPs on alpha2 were removed as a band aid fix due to rampant griefing. As AI stuff is now fixed, I hope they're coming back asap. Made alpha2 life much more interesting.

9) Sure, but you've been around for a long time. When NSE first started, we went through blood and tears to get a seth, now we can produce gamma terminals with ease.

Yet your corp still had to sell me 40 ICE few days ago, to acquire some NIC. I'm not judging, but get off your high horse, son.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5 … 2B07bL.jpg

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

9 (edited by Illiathos 2015-06-23 10:31:29)

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Jasdemi wrote:

Red NCPs on alpha2 were removed as a band aid fix due to rampant griefing. As AI stuff is now fixed, I hope they're coming back asap. Made alpha2 life much more interesting.

9) Sure, but you've been around for a long time. When NSE first started, we went through blood and tears to get a seth, now we can produce gamma terminals with ease.

Yet your corp still had to sell me 40 ICE few days ago, to acquire some NIC. I'm not judging, but get off your high horse, son.

So goth went on shopping spree and we have secured beta and gamma. Our wealth has nothing to do with balance. And the last sentence contradicts itself.

CORRECTION: Person in corp sold, not because he had to, but because he chose to.

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Illiathos wrote:
Jasdemi wrote:

Red NCPs on alpha2 were removed as a band aid fix due to rampant griefing. As AI stuff is now fixed, I hope they're coming back asap. Made alpha2 life much more interesting.

9) Sure, but you've been around for a long time. When NSE first started, we went through blood and tears to get a seth, now we can produce gamma terminals with ease.

Yet your corp still had to sell me 40 ICE few days ago, to acquire some NIC. I'm not judging, but get off your high horse, son.

So goth went on shopping spree and we have secured beta and gamma. Our wealth has nothing to do with balance. And the last sentence contradicts itself.

Secured against who? The minute anyone can be bothered to pull 25 people together any gamma in the game is dead. If you believe more turrets etc will help your in for a surprise. Your real security is in blueing anyone who would present a threat. Spend money on that.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

11 (edited by Illiathos 2015-06-23 10:35:49)

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Jita wrote:
Illiathos wrote:
Jasdemi wrote:

Red NCPs on alpha2 were removed as a band aid fix due to rampant griefing. As AI stuff is now fixed, I hope they're coming back asap. Made alpha2 life much more interesting.


Yet your corp still had to sell me 40 ICE few days ago, to acquire some NIC. I'm not judging, but get off your high horse, son.

So goth went on shopping spree and we have secured beta and gamma. Our wealth has nothing to do with balance. And the last sentence contradicts itself.

Secured against who? The minute anyone can be bothered to pull 25 people together any gamma in the game is dead. If you believe more turrets etc will help your in for a surprise. Your real security is in blueing anyone who would present a threat. Spend money on that.

But you people arent pulling 25 people together. And until you do, I'm calling it secure. Not saying you cant, saying you arent.

EDIT: secure against the random groups of 2-3 people that skirmish.

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Illiathos wrote:
Jita wrote:
Illiathos wrote:

So goth went on shopping spree and we have secured beta and gamma. Our wealth has nothing to do with balance. And the last sentence contradicts itself.

Secured against who? The minute anyone can be bothered to pull 25 people together any gamma in the game is dead. If you believe more turrets etc will help your in for a surprise. Your real security is in blueing anyone who would present a threat. Spend money on that.

But you people arent pulling 25 people together. And until you do, I'm calling it secure. Not saying you cant, saying you arent.

EDIT: secure against the random groups of 2-3 people that skirmish.

if it takes 40 ice to do that with a squad of fifty people your in real trouble there sonny jim.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Jita wrote:
Illiathos wrote:
Jita wrote:

Secured against who? The minute anyone can be bothered to pull 25 people together any gamma in the game is dead. If you believe more turrets etc will help your in for a surprise. Your real security is in blueing anyone who would present a threat. Spend money on that.

But you people arent pulling 25 people together. And until you do, I'm calling it secure. Not saying you cant, saying you arent.

EDIT: secure against the random groups of 2-3 people that skirmish.

if it takes 40 ice to do that with a squad of fifty people your in real trouble there sonny jim.

We've got enough of everything as it is. 40 ice is just the topping.

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Illiathos wrote:
Jita wrote:
Illiathos wrote:

But you people arent pulling 25 people together. And until you do, I'm calling it secure. Not saying you cant, saying you arent.

EDIT: secure against the random groups of 2-3 people that skirmish.

if it takes 40 ice to do that with a squad of fifty people your in real trouble there sonny jim.

We've got enough of everything as it is. 40 ice is just the topping.

I suppose its nice to keep the devs in ramen and toast.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

The difference between NSE and JOKE is a fine example of the difference between using diplomacy and being insolent.

Gunner approves.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Syndic wrote:

The difference between NSE and JOKE is a fine example of the difference between using diplomacy and being insolent.

Gunner approves.

As do we all. No regrets.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

17 (edited by Annihilator 2015-06-23 12:02:46)

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

there are probably 100 more reasons for the changes that don't fit into your head - you just concentrate on a few that have been mentioned, and even there, you concentrate on single phrases.

there is a fool-proof evidence that everything they changed or will change in the near future has not worked up to now: <100 active player in a single shard open world online game.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Jita wrote:

Secured against who? The minute anyone can be bothered to pull 25 people together any gamma in the game is dead. If you believe more turrets etc will help your in for a surprise. Your real security is in blueing anyone who would present a threat. Spend money on that.

Yall can't even be bothered to put 20-25 people together to defend an allies base.  Instead of dropping people in the terminal with bots and equipment while everyone was sleeping, they decided to evac instead of defend.  Who is Jita? does he play this game?  Or is he just a forum troll?

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Rovoc wrote:
Jita wrote:

Secured against who? The minute anyone can be bothered to pull 25 people together any gamma in the game is dead. If you believe more turrets etc will help your in for a surprise. Your real security is in blueing anyone who would present a threat. Spend money on that.

Yall can't even be bothered to put 20-25 people together to defend an allies base.  Instead of dropping people in the terminal with bots and equipment while everyone was sleeping, they decided to evac instead of defend.  Who is Jita? does he play this game?  Or is he just a forum troll?

if they had 25 people they would be there i'm sure. But you had fifty so that would have ended badly.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

20 (edited by Celebro 2015-06-23 15:26:08)

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Nothing new, I didn't know already.

In regards to Reds on alpha2 you are incorrect it is badly needed to add some risk even some on alpha1. Alpha does not equate to a testing server, and this is what alpha islands are like now. Risk will involve some increase on demand for ores and will be worth much more including the need to replace bots due to the higher risks.

Btw liquids needs to be removed from alpha1. We need an active community in game to make it grow not 20 odd afk.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Annihilator wrote:

there are probably 100 more reasons for the changes that don't fit into your head - you just concentrate on a few that have been mentioned, and even there, you concentrate on single phrases.

there is a fool-proof evidence that everything they changed or will change in the near future has not worked up to now: <100 active player in a single shard open world online game.

Then give me those 100 reasons. You realise you havent given me a single concrete argument?

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Jasdemi wrote:

Red NCPs on alpha2 were removed as a band aid fix due to rampant griefing. As AI stuff is now fixed, I hope they're coming back asap. Made alpha2 life much more interesting.

9) Sure, but you've been around for a long time. When NSE first started, we went through blood and tears to get a seth, now we can produce gamma terminals with ease.

Yet your corp still had to sell me 40 ICE few days ago, to acquire some NIC. I'm not judging, but get off your high horse, son.

Do you really think 'NSE' is selling ICE cause we are strapped for NIC.  Everyone knows NIC is a joke in this game.  We (NSE) are sitting in a fully T3 Gamma base for production, we are raking in SAP loot on a half dozen of our betas, we have active online players mining, missioning and actually playing the game, we aren't getting killed often in PVP/PVE, do you really think that ICE was sold to keep us out of bankruptcy??  I can tell you I am not sitting up all night worried that a tow truck is gonna come repo my Gropho.

Use your brain, you gotta be able to think of a couple of other reasons why someone sold that ICE.  If we needed a bailout, we would do like the EU and just go ask Germany for a big bailout wink

Don't be a troll, leave that work to Joke.

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

1. afk mining is normal (if you want start observers on alpha and no problem)
2. multibox - i will be use what i want, and if it stop for me, i out.
3. botting - stop the paranoia (static NPC will be soon remove)

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

Illiathos wrote:

Then give me those 100 reasons. You realise you havent given me a single concrete argument?

sorry, i am not one of those who can explain e=mc² to backyard kids, nor do i have any reason to do so...

and well:

Altera wrote:

Do you really think 'NSE' is selling ICE cause we are strapped for NIC.  Everyone knows NIC is a joke in this game.  We (NSE) are sitting in a fully T3 Gamma base for production, we are raking in SAP loot on a half dozen of our betas, we have active online players mining, missioning and actually playing the game, we aren't getting killed often in PVP/PVE, do you really think that ICE was sold to keep us out of bankruptcy??  I can tell you I am not sitting up all night worried that a tow truck is gonna come repo my Gropho.
Use your brain, you gotta be able to think of a couple of other reasons why someone sold that ICE.  If we needed a bailout, we would do like the EU and just go ask Germany for a big bailout wink
Don't be a troll, leave that work to Joke.

your corpmates already explain in their posts from time to time, why things have to change.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

25 (edited by Kayin Prime 2015-06-23 18:09:41)

Re: The whole balancing around afking, mutiboxing and botting

lol, the devs can't ban a majority of the game's population.

Nor would they want to. Buying more accounts is the primary revenue stream.  This game isn't subscription based, how did you think this worked?