Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Tonnik wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Burial wrote:

Zoom, why exactly are you removing the static spawns? Removing content, bad.

It's no good content, I am in favour of removing for abuse and it is really boring stuff, I'd rather mine tbh.

I think grind has its place alongside missions. Adjust the reward perhaps.

You can still do beacons. We need more types of them too, for every level of ability.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Tonnik wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Burial wrote:

Zoom, why exactly are you removing the static spawns? Removing content, bad.

It's no good content, I am in favour of removing for abuse and it is really boring stuff, I'd rather mine tbh.

I think grind has its place alongside missions. Adjust the reward perhaps.


I agree, farming static spawns is enjoyment for some (over mining or what-not), but this was the DEVs answer to the botting issue and until they come up with a better way to stop letting some folks have an unfair advantage in game, this is the best course of action.

This discussion has gone on in many different forum topics.

28 (edited by Burial 2015-06-16 17:51:07)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

I'm pretty sure there's more accusations of botting on the forums than actual botting in game. Nevertheless, punishing botters is a better choice over removing content.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Tonnik wrote:
Syndic wrote:

I'm interested in what the actual Devs have to say, not wannabe Devs.

So salty. Such rage. So funny.

Maybe he should ask his priviledged Beta GMs in corp for infos next time. Diplomacy works!

Regarding Static spawn farming - well, beacons are same. You can buy them on the market or use your mission tokens to buy them. For what else do you want to use your billions of NIC, other then using them on the PLAYER MARKET?

Static spawns are not only an issue for botting, they also have been an issue for making the gameworld dynamic (eg. dynamic mineral spawns). They are bad for the server too (99% of the spawns are dead content because noone farms them, but they still need server power, and bandwidth that interferese with larger scale PvP)

Last but not least - for immersion they are the worst of all...

now... for what are they actually good that can't be done differently already?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

30 (edited by Burial 2015-06-16 17:56:57)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Beacons are not the same. When I deploy one, I need to be there shooting until the end. If there were some beacons with less waves I'd be pretty happy.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

please stay on topic!!  And stop flooding the topic with rift raft!

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32 (edited by Annihilator 2015-06-16 18:02:17)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

on topic:
the downtime had lasted 30mins longer then expected

/close fuuu

edit:
and the server is down for a quick hotfix again?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

33 (edited by Celebro 2015-06-16 18:06:16)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Altera wrote:
Tonnik wrote:
Celebro wrote:

It's no good content, I am in favour of removing for abuse and it is really boring stuff, I'd rather mine tbh.

I think grind has its place alongside missions. Adjust the reward perhaps.


I agree, farming static spawns is enjoyment for some (over mining or what-not), but this was the DEVs answer to the botting issue and until they come up with a better way to stop letting some folks have an unfair advantage in game, this is the best course of action.

This discussion has gone on in many different forum topics.

Farming NPC static spawns is not enjoyment, players do it for the resources/NIC they produce which is the best nic/hr in the game aside from beacons. I think static spawn is the worst gameplay I have ever seen, very few seems to enjoy it, just look at the numbers online and in decline.

I would rather spend an hour hunting an observer which drops 20-40m Nic in loot. Now that sounds much more fun.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Celebro wrote:
Altera wrote:
Tonnik wrote:

I think grind has its place alongside missions. Adjust the reward perhaps.


I agree, farming static spawns is enjoyment for some (over mining or what-not), but this was the DEVs answer to the botting issue and until they come up with a better way to stop letting some folks have an unfair advantage in game, this is the best course of action.

This discussion has gone on in many different forum topics.

Farming NPC static spawns is not enjoyment, players do it for the resources/NIC they produce which is the best nic/hr in the game aside from beacons. I think static spawn is the worst gameplay I have ever seen, very few seems to enjoy it, just look at the numbers online and in decline.

I would rather spend an hour hunting an observer which drops 20-40m Nic in loot. Now that sounds much more fun.

To you perhaps. I've had many a copy io sat on a static dropping beacons for extra eats and just having a laugh rather than moving about a lot. Occasionally you get a Lobo spawn you have to watch explode.

In addition to this your requiring people who farm either damage their relations to other factions or not rat. I don't understand why you would want to remove content.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Syndic wrote:

So how long do we have left to milk the cow before the static spawns are removed from Alpha?


Well, for comments like these, they need to remove content. yikes

To fix the issue just need to add different beacons, like slow waves, as Burial said.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

slow wave beacon = combat missions...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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37 (edited by Syndic 2015-06-16 19:19:16)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

So Zoom, how much time do we have left - roughly - to milk the cow before you remove static spawns? I mean, we've been milking it for months now and it's getting a little bit ridiculous. big_smile

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38 (edited by Burial 2015-06-16 20:50:54)

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Syndic wrote:

So Zoom, how much time do we have left - roughly - to milk the cow before you remove static spawns? I mean, we've been milking it for months now and it's getting a little bit ridiculous. big_smile

That's you trying to manipulate the developers.

Zoom, do you actually have some reliable evidence? If you want to stop botting, there's no choice but to start banning. You can't keep gutting your game like a trout.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

You forgot? All static spawns - property of Russian bots. cool lol

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Burial wrote:
Syndic wrote:

So Zoom, how much time do we have left - roughly - to milk the cow before you remove static spawns? I mean, we've been milking it for months now and it's getting a little bit ridiculous. big_smile

That's you trying to manipulate the developers.

Zoom, do you actually have some reliable evidence? If you want to stop botting, there's no choice but to start banning. You can't keep gutting your game like a trout.

Indeed. The list of content removed because people can't stop trying to cheat success will now include:

Beacon farming on gamma

Red mobs on alpha

Static spawns on Alpha

Red mob ratting on Beta

there are probably a few more.

Don't nerf the content, nerf the people.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

You also need to think about this: MMO's are usually 50 - 70% carebear and 30% PvP. You need high end PVE content on Alpha for these people.

Perhaps high level missions should be on Alpha just without top level tokens or a reduced payout for both. I'd hate for Alpha to be nerfed down to the kind of PVE content you can do with a t1 mech. It needs to be challenging even for groups on Alpha AND Beta.


I remember back in Beta, the biggest corp in the game Ecorp did nothing but take on new people and help them enjoy the game. They did this from Alpha only. Their Beta attempts were few and far between. It absolutely should be the case that Alpha can support end game gameplay, just with significantly less reward and significantly less risk.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Annihilator wrote:

Static spawns are not only an issue for botting, they also have been an issue for making the gameworld dynamic (eg. dynamic mineral spawns). They are bad for the server too (99% of the spawns are dead content because noone farms them, but they still need server power, and bandwidth that interferese with larger scale PvP)

Last but not least - for immersion they are the worst of all...

now... for what are they actually good that can't be done differently already?

Server resources?  Easy fix.  Like an mission, have a radius a player needs to stand in in order to activate the spawn.  Or an switch.  If not activated each random timeframe then the spawn stops producing npcs.  Or have static spawns act like mining fields; where the npcs change locations on the map each day or after a period of time being neglected ...

There are fixes that don't call for removing them because the whiners that abused them for long periods before are crying about it now.

Since you guys are bound and determined to remove fun, are you Going to give out account respecs since your making my fun go away and removing the usefulness of my non-botting accounts that were set-up to enjoy the spawns?  Now they'll be pretty uuseless. Even the nexus scarab . thanks for that 'fix' btw.  Could have waited to do that when you axe the spawns ...

-Ensi

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

or even introducing a beacon that lasts for an hour or two would be fine.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Sorry for those that like the statics spawns, but you are talking about it as if it was the best game play ever. Not only that, the research on alpha2s static spawns is a joke a vet can make complete personal research in less than a month.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Celebro wrote:

Sorry for those that like the statics spawns, but you are talking about it as if it was the best game play ever. Not only that, the research on alpha2s static spawns is a joke a vet can make complete personal research in less than a month.

It wasn't the best gameplay ever but it was another aspect of that gameplay. Much the same as belt rats and mission rats in eve.

I'm all for nerfing them to make them leas valuable than missions (even a heavy nerf to loot tables) but removing them seems like a waste of working content.

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

jita... you are under the assumption, that its "working content" that got removed. Well, it didn't work according the player retention...

currently more content is "locked" by a player-faction that doesnt actively play the game.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Annihilator wrote:

jita... you are under the assumption, that its "working content" that got removed. Well, it didn't work according the player retention...

currently more content is "locked" by a player-faction that doesnt actively play the game.

Come and take it - that's free player-generated content for you in a sandbox game.

I believe pvp could be very exciting and the game has what it takes. But this is game is ruined and we all know  by who, it´s by corps like CiR, -77- and PHM. - by Fu ManChu

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Annihilator wrote:

jita... you are under the assumption, that its "working content" that got removed. Well, it didn't work according the player retention...

currently more content is "locked" by a player-faction that doesnt actively play the game.

It doesn't work on its own but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. PVE is multi layered, we are not removing artifacting or roaming spawns or beacons but that element wasn't enough either.

If the reward is significantly reduced then what's the problem with Jeeping them?

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

I'd take more demand for tokens, thus more people running missions over content for 1-2 players or bots per island.

+1 for removal of static spawns

Re: Scheduled server downtime - 2015-06-15

Given that the only PVE content that's going to be on Alpha is maybe level 3 missions and beacons that seems kinda crazy