Topic: Ratting on Beta

Why is ratting on beta worthless?  As in Why is killing orange npc's on beta not worth wild?  Mr. Zoom why do you allow alpha to be better than beta?

Re: Ratting on Beta

because...

well, because glorious PvP inventions like AoE explosions.

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Re: Ratting on Beta

T5 Mobs, should have their plasma drop like tripled.

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Re: Ratting on Beta

Red Gamma mobs should have a big boost to drops.  As it stands the only thing worth killing are the observers and even then its hard to track them down with such a big island.

5 (edited by Blocker 2015-06-10 05:19:26)

Re: Ratting on Beta

Rovoc wrote:

Red Gamma mobs should have a big boost to drops.  As it stands the only thing worth killing are the observers and even then its hard to track them down with such a big island.

I would argue that even observers are not worth chasing. Consider the amount of plasma/kernels dropped and it's value and compare that to the cost of replacing your bot should you lose it. Also superior observers are the highest difficulty NPC in the game and in that context compare the value of the loot they drop.. Given those two considerations alone, why would anyone bother with them ?

Forgot to mention the fun factor.. Need to disregard the fun factor. Some peeps find it fun to chase them down and kill them even if the loot is crap.

Re: Ratting on Beta

Everything good should be on beta.

Alpha should be so bad it forces all the new players, and veterans alike to beta. 

Their should be a rule that if you are over the one year age you cannot go back to beta, makes sense really.

I am Perpetuum.

7 (edited by Blocker 2015-06-10 06:08:37)

Re: Ratting on Beta

Perpetuum wrote:

Everything good should be on beta.

Alpha should be so bad it forces all the new players, and veterans alike to beta. 

Their should be a rule that if you are over the one year age you cannot go back to beta, makes sense really.

I acknowledge that there is a big imbalance with risk/reward for beta/alpha islands. However I don't agree that "forcing" people into this or that play style is the solution. Generally this will have a negative impact on the game as people leave because they are forced into a particular play style, especially with a game that labels itself as a sandbox.  Can you imagine the impact on player numbers in EvE if all empire dwellers were "forced" into low or null sec?

In the end everyone has to accept some sort of compromise as that is the best way to make the game appealing to the widest range of players.

Re: Ratting on Beta

Blocker wrote:

Forgot to mention the fun factor.. Need to disregard the fun factor. Some peeps find it fun to chase them down and kill them even if the loot is crap.

QFT

@Celebro - try to report him, quoting a forum/game/EULA rule that he violates with his name wink

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Re: Ratting on Beta

Anyone living on Alpha should be making the most of their income by mining titan ore and selling it on the market.

Nerf it until it is so.

Meanwhile, botting continues.

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Re: Ratting on Beta

As it stand right now most spawns on beta are tier 4, i can farm that on Alpha .. in complete safety ( no explosion damage, no pvp ) so why should i take my 100+ mil MK2 farming setup out to beta for the same NIC i get on Alpha. this affects more than just the PVE "Carebear" the PVP minded sharks are affected by this as well, if i wont farm NPC's on beta they cant come and hunt me down. right now the only thing beta is good for is mining epi/nora. i dont know exactly what the mission change is going to bring but i can say that unless the beta missions are significantly more rewarding than alpha there is NO incentive to risk bots to run missions.

TL:DR if you want people on beta make it worth the risk ..... instead of thinking how can we FORCE people to beta think how can we make people WANT to go to beta

Re: Ratting on Beta

If they made beta the way it was before they nerves the *** out of it then it would be fine.

It had:

Big red spawns of every mineral
Static spawns with normally four Epi spots within 1400m
Red mobs that didn't cause explosion damage
Observer robots that, while difficult, dropped an observer kernel that gave a great increase to tech
Stations couldn't be locked so you could set your industry up there without risk of losing it all
The best production in the game

They ruined all of that and now beta is ***.

Bring it all back and beta is worthwhile again. Yes not having station locks can leave you open to ninja ganking but if your that bothered about it then get a gamma. Gamma should be close to as lucrative as beta but safer as you can build your own defences, wall off your base and lock people from stations.

Re: Ratting on Beta

And remove spark teleports.

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Re: Ratting on Beta

Tonnik wrote:

If they made beta the way it was before they nerves the *** out of it then it would be fine.

It had:

Big red spawns of every mineral
Static spawns with normally four Epi spots within 1400m
Red mobs that didn't cause explosion damage
Observer robots that, while difficult, dropped an observer kernel that gave a great increase to tech
Stations couldn't be locked so you could set your industry up there without risk of losing it all
The best production in the game

They ruined all of that and now beta is ***.

Bring it all back and beta is worthwhile again. Yes not having station locks can leave you open to ninja ganking but if your that bothered about it then get a gamma. Gamma should be close to as lucrative as beta but safer as you can build your own defences, wall off your base and lock people from stations.

Your changes would make Gamma useless and we would have to start all of these threads over again and change 'beta/gamma is not worth' it to 'gamma is not worth it'.

We all agree the Risk-v-Reward of beta (and gamma) is way out of level, but you just want free and open beta that is too OP. Balance is needed.  You propose moving the Risk-v-Reward needle on beta to little risk/lots of reward.

Re: Ratting on Beta

i would propose ensuring a tier 5 mech/heavy mech spawn on each beta ( by faction OFC ), mining can stay as it is there is epi you just gotta look for it ( static spawns of epi works to the hunters advantage once they know where it is ). if for example someone on alpha can make 30 mil NIC per hour farming tier 4 spawns that same person on beta should be making 50 mil per hour farming that tier 5 spawn. The ripple effect this could have is immense, once PVE players find it worth it to be on beta the PVP players will find it worth it to roam, once bots start to die players buy bots/fits from the market, this drives the need for miners to be on beta to make said bots/fits and the cycle starts over. With the markets at a standstill the players need a way to earn NIC that is in balance with the risk they take, so they can buy better stuff and not be afraid to fight a bit because they know they can replace what they risk.

Gamma is already undesirable untill something more than gamma structures can be made with colixium so buffing beta to be the best in production would kill the last edge gamma has.

Re: Ratting on Beta

jita, did you actually play before station locks got introduced? i cant remember fuuu

the reason for orange static spawns are history as soon as the new mission system hits beta islands. then all static spawns can be removed, and there is no "i cannot mine that epi under that red spawn" argument anymore.

leaves the 2km detection range 160 kph bots with intra-zone teleports all over the place to scout every beta island in a matter of a few minutes,
proxy probes without any placement restriction at any teleport and spark teleport to cover several islands in a matter of seconds.

oh, forgot... 100+ kph t4 mk2 heavy mechs.

yay...

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16 (edited by Burial 2015-06-10 23:13:09)

Re: Ratting on Beta

Dude, even I played before station locks and Jita started long before me. big_smile

On topic, assignments rewards are probably the easiest thing to adjust and could be the saviour of Betas, time will tell.

Re: Ratting on Beta

Annihilator wrote:

jita, did you actually play before station locks got introduced? i cant remember fuuu

the reason for orange static spawns are history as soon as the new mission system hits beta islands. then all static spawns can be removed, and there is no "i cannot mine that epi under that red spawn" argument anymore.

leaves the 2km detection range 160 kph bots with intra-zone teleports all over the place to scout every beta island in a matter of a few minutes,
proxy probes without any placement restriction at any teleport and spark teleport to cover several islands in a matter of seconds.

oh, forgot... 100+ kph t4 mk2 heavy mechs.

yay...

Of course I did, I was here in closed beta.

Nine of that makes any difference really, an organised and scouted mining op on an island with open stations sat 1400m from the undock is very hard to catch and kill. Not impossible, just hard. This combination of lucrative and safe encourages beta population. Its just like 0.0 really, if your awake your almost always safe unless your moving between atations. People will still die in droves.

Re: Ratting on Beta

Burial wrote:

On topic, assignments rewards are probably the easiest thing to adjust and could be the saviour of Betas, time will tell.

To chime in here, that's the plan yes.

Re: Ratting on Beta

DEV Zoom wrote:
Burial wrote:

On topic, assignments rewards are probably the easiest thing to adjust and could be the saviour of Betas, time will tell.

To chime in here, that's the plan yes.

Yeah but are you going to make it worth it?

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Re: Ratting on Beta

There are already 3 non-lockable terminals on Beta, why is nobody using them if station locks are such a problem? smile

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Re: Ratting on Beta

Syndic wrote:

There are already 3 non-lockable terminals on Beta, why is nobody using them if station locks are such a problem? smile

Because it's not station locks in isolation that are the issue. Its the whole risk reward balance of beta. Right now Beta risk vs reward isn't worth bothering. Even if reward was greatly increased the risk factors are too high compared with alpha for PVE. You need to balance both sides before Beta becomes populated again.

I will also say that by reducing Beta risk and opening stations you make faction breakup more likely. Coalitions are often done out of necessity in order to access higher levels of gameplay.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Ratting on Beta

You are the prime culprit for whining until Zoom removed what little reward on Beta there was with missions and explosion damage.

Creating the problem then offering a solution that benefits you and everyone else in your alliance that can't capture a station, sounds like quality Dev manipulation.

Zoom it's funny how you remove explosion damage in 72 hours after topic & ticket spam from people that couldn't be bothered to go kill scarab mk2's near Moyar, but you let those same people run bots on Alpha for months and that's not a problem.

Favoritism to old Closed Beta GM's much?

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Re: Ratting on Beta

Syndic wrote:

Favoritism to old Closed Beta GM's much?

Wow, one more entry to Perpetuum's conspiracy theories list. I'm not even aware that they are still playing.

Re: Ratting on Beta

Syndic wrote:

idiotic rambling

Beta on release was a whole lot more balanced than now. Thats why it was a whole lot more populated.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Ratting on Beta

Syndic wrote:

blah-blah dev manipulation... blah-blah self-serving blah-blah..

Paranoid ***.