Topic: A Different Sort of Battle

Watched several PerpOnline battles on YouTube the other day and came to the conclusion that – at this moment- the only real outcomes of any battle are mainly dependent on two things:

1) Strength of numbers
2) And which bots were primaried first (with the help of EW).

That's about it… just a matter of attrition after that.

Also, the landscape was really just a hindrance in getting from point A to point B and though it might have played a small role in deterring LOS weapons it offered little if nothing else in deciding the outcome.

So, I was wondering if the Devs' have had any thoughts towards making it where the enemy was seen only by the actual visual sighting of the enemy itself.  And then, once within range - targeting could be implemented, that is… if the enemy failed to spot you. The planets foliage could be used as cover (a type of camouflage) for guards, sentries and also for tactics such as ambushing, guerrilla warfare etc.

As it is now, the enemy can be spotted by their 'Hey Look!!! Here I Am" name tag above their bot even when their not in range so it kind of defeats the purpose of being strategically inclined and tactically sound.

Just a thought

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Cloaking could add another dimension to this type of combat.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

darkfall that way ------>

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

You obviously didnt hear about the intrusion event from last night.  Numbers is not the deciding factor in a fight.

->You just lost The Game<-

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Neoxx wrote:

You obviously didnt hear about the intrusion event from last night.  Numbers is not the deciding factor in a fight.

Agreed. Missing the most epic battle of all time for internet robot supremacy invalidates all PvP opinions.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Neoxx wrote:

You obviously didnt hear about the intrusion event from last night.  Numbers is not the deciding factor in a fight.

Contributing factors in Infestation's favor to counter numbers -

T3-T4 equipment
EA enhanced skills

Granted, those alone are not enough, but if the other side had a majority of pilots (80 out of 100 instead of the 10 of 100 they probably had) with those additional factors + numbers the outcome may have been different.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Arga wrote:
Neoxx wrote:

You obviously didnt hear about the intrusion event from last night.  Numbers is not the deciding factor in a fight.

Contributing factors in Infestation's favor to counter numbers -

T3-T4 equipment
EA enhanced skills

Granted, those alone are not enough, but if the other side had a majority of pilots (80 out of 100 instead of the 10 of 100 they probably had) with those additional factors + numbers the outcome may have been different.

Yes we had some T3-T4 equipment, so did the enemy. (We looted them) So that's invalid.

EA enhanced skills? Seriously? Your suggesting out of their 120 man blob that they didn't have 30 EA players? As that's how many we had in the fight. Your either desperately trying to defend them, or are a complete idiot, or both.

Numbers were estimated at 120 vs 45. It may be as much as +10/-10 from the 120 estimated, but no more or less.

Oldest player still in the game. Perpetuum for life.
Original Founder of M2S, may it rest in peace. sad
"Hungarian Math" is defined by the dictionary as "Just like normal math, but where each equation ends by dividing the sum by Potato."
-Shoutout to "Stranger Danger" for the "potato" comment.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Blackomen wrote:
Arga wrote:
Neoxx wrote:

You obviously didnt hear about the intrusion event from last night.  Numbers is not the deciding factor in a fight.

Contributing factors in Infestation's favor to counter numbers -

T3-T4 equipment
EA enhanced skills

Granted, those alone are not enough, but if the other side had a majority of pilots (80 out of 100 instead of the 10 of 100 they probably had) with those additional factors + numbers the outcome may have been different.

Yes we had some T3-T4 equipment, so did the enemy. (We looted them) So that's invalid.

EA enhanced skills? Seriously? Your suggesting out of their 120 man blob that they didn't have 30 EA players? As that's how many we had in the fight. Your either desperately trying to defend them, or are a complete idiot, or both.

Numbers were estimated at 120 vs 45. It may be as much as +10/-10 from the 120 estimated, but no more or less.

After thorough review and based on previous posting history I vote complete idiot...or both.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

This game needs mind controlling units, forced targeting and general squad leader RTS controls. Why let the mindless noobs lose their robots when you can command them like an elite from the sky.

The Game

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Arga wrote:
Neoxx wrote:

You obviously didnt hear about the intrusion event from last night.  Numbers is not the deciding factor in a fight.

Contributing factors in Infestation's favor to counter numbers -

T3-T4 equipment
EA enhanced skills

Granted, those alone are not enough, but if the other side had a majority of pilots (80 out of 100 instead of the 10 of 100 they probably had) with those additional factors + numbers the outcome may have been different.

What gibberish lol, yeah we had t3/4 equipment, we've worked f'ing hard to get it, that doesn't fix 2.5-1 odds.  It was great intel, great tactics, great team play and great leadership that won the day, fact

11 (edited by Rodger Dodger 2011-01-05 00:37:39)

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Jelan wrote:
Arga wrote:
Neoxx wrote:

You obviously didnt hear about the intrusion event from last night.  Numbers is not the deciding factor in a fight.

Contributing factors in Infestation's favor to counter numbers -

T3-T4 equipment
EA enhanced skills

Granted, those alone are not enough, but if the other side had a majority of pilots (80 out of 100 instead of the 10 of 100 they probably had) with those additional factors + numbers the outcome may have been different.

What gibberish lol, yeah we had t3/4 equipment, we've worked f'ing hard to get it, that doesn't fix 2.5-1 odds.  It was great intel, great tactics, great team play and great leadership that won the day, fact

Ummm sorry but I got a confession to make...

I pretended to be a dying kid and put it in as a request to "Make a Wish Foundation" otherwise things would have been different.

They would have been different, OK?

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Jelan wrote:

What gibberish lol, yeah we had t3/4 equipment, we've worked f'ing hard to get it, that doesn't fix 2.5-1 odds.  It was great intel, great tactics, great team play and great leadership that won the day, fact

the only thing i would amend to that is that you guys definitely had a range advantage that we couldn't take.  when it got down to the last fight we were slightly whittled down and instead of backing off, i feel like we should have just charged in so a lot more folks could get in firing range, we were all goin to go boom anyways so why not? 

I know for myself, i hardly got a shot off at all because the blobs didnt ever get that close.  regardless, hindsight is always 20/20 and I will say this, it was super fun and a great learning experience and it will be very interesting to see what happens in a month or two when the noobs, like myself that didnt find out about this game till after launch, have significantly more EP invested.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Blackomen wrote:
Arga wrote:
Neoxx wrote:

You obviously didnt hear about the intrusion event from last night.  Numbers is not the deciding factor in a fight.

Contributing factors in Infestation's favor to counter numbers -

T3-T4 equipment
EA enhanced skills

Granted, those alone are not enough, but if the other side had a majority of pilots (80 out of 100 instead of the 10 of 100 they probably had) with those additional factors + numbers the outcome may have been different.

Yes we had some T3-T4 equipment, so did the enemy. (We looted them) So that's invalid.

EA enhanced skills? Seriously? Your suggesting out of their 120 man blob that they didn't have 30 EA players? As that's how many we had in the fight. Your either desperately trying to defend them, or are a complete idiot, or both.

Numbers were estimated at 120 vs 45. It may be as much as +10/-10 from the 120 estimated, but no more or less.

Gotta love people who only read part of a short post.

Yes, I'm saying they had less than 30 EA accounts in a blob of 120; but more I'm saying that you had 30/45.
I said they had T3-T4 but few, but that your 'some' is probably more like 'most', again 30/45.

66% of your force was 'advanced', while at most 10-15% of the blob were.

---

Where I said "Granted, those alone are not enough" was as much credit as I was going to give you for tactics because your ego's are already big enough.

---

Who ever said you didn't deserve to be better outfitted? Sensitive much?

I'm saying, lets see a fraps of 120 to 45 bots both with advanced fittings and EA, and while your force may not be wiped out, it will be retreating and losing the objective; but you can continue your fantasy of leadership and tactics overcoming that, as I'm sure you will.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Blorturmur wrote:

the only thing i would amend to that is that you guys definitely had a range advantage that we couldn't take.
I know for myself, i hardly got a shot off at all because the blobs didnt ever get that close..

Nothing like having a 1 or 2 T4 sensor boosters and an extra 2-3 skill points in long range... or wait, those don't matter.

Its not like having even 10 meters of extra range would allow you to just run backwards and kill bots like the first 30 minutes of the video showed; I hope that tactic isn't what you're calling superior, because any idiot can run backwards and keep a target just out of range.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Arga wrote:
Blackomen wrote:
Arga wrote:

Contributing factors in Infestation's favor to counter numbers -

T3-T4 equipment
EA enhanced skills

Granted, those alone are not enough, but if the other side had a majority of pilots (80 out of 100 instead of the 10 of 100 they probably had) with those additional factors + numbers the outcome may have been different.

Yes we had some T3-T4 equipment, so did the enemy. (We looted them) So that's invalid.

EA enhanced skills? Seriously? Your suggesting out of their 120 man blob that they didn't have 30 EA players? As that's how many we had in the fight. Your either desperately trying to defend them, or are a complete idiot, or both.

Numbers were estimated at 120 vs 45. It may be as much as +10/-10 from the 120 estimated, but no more or less.

Gotta love people who only read part of a short post.

Yes, I'm saying they had less than 30 EA accounts in a blob of 120; but more I'm saying that you had 30/45.
I said they had T3-T4 but few, but that your 'some' is probably more like 'most', again 30/45.

66% of your force was 'advanced', while at most 10-15% of the blob were.

---

Where I said "Granted, those alone are not enough" was as much credit as I was going to give you for tactics because your ego's are already big enough.

---

Who ever said you didn't deserve to be better outfitted? Sensitive much?

I'm saying, lets see a fraps of 120 to 45 bots both with advanced fittings and EA, and while your force may not be wiped out, it will be retreating and losing the objective; but you can continue your fantasy of leadership and tactics overcoming that, as I'm sure you will.

Not a fantasy, it happened yesterday wink

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

You were in a fantasy yesterday, did the sheep survive being caught in the fence this time?

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Cloaking could add another dimension to this type of combat.

No need for cloaking. Camouflaged skins could be used.

darkfall that way ------>

Non Sequitur.

You obviously didnt hear about the intrusion event from last night.  Numbers is not the deciding factor in a fight.

Your right Neoxx, I didn't. After reading some of the posts here I wish I had of. Did anybody take FRAPS?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Be that as it may, I think the Devs could find someway to host a battle where the enemies ID's were not revealed to the opposing force - until the enemy was seen and targeted. It would open up a whole new way of planning/coordinating strategies.

The only problem would be the rendering capability of older computers trying to get visuals from far away.

18

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Mars Volta wrote:

darkfall that way ------>


lot good ideas came from that direction..........

<<< REAL POWER CAN NOT BE GIVEN, IT MUST BE TAKEN >>>

Kyr - Perpetuum Online
Helios Norlund - Darkfall Online

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Arga wrote:
Blorturmur wrote:

the only thing i would amend to that is that you guys definitely had a range advantage that we couldn't take.
I know for myself, i hardly got a shot off at all because the blobs didnt ever get that close..

Nothing like having a 1 or 2 T4 sensor boosters and an extra 2-3 skill points in long range... or wait, those don't matter.

Its not like having even 10 meters of extra range would allow you to just run backwards and kill bots like the first 30 minutes of the video showed; I hope that tactic isn't what you're calling superior, because any idiot can run backwards and keep a target just out of range.

A large part of the skill involved in this game is preparation. Knowing how to fit out a robot for the situation your going into. But I do understand how you wouldn't have figured this out yet considering your corp still doesn't know how to fit out robots.

And stop pulling numbers out of your *** concerning who had what equipped when you weren't even there.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

AOE content patch incoming
http://perpetuum-online.blogspot.com/20 … idays.html
http://perpetuum-online.blogspot.com/20 … gress.html
It will bring different sort of battle

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Snowstyle wrote:

A large part of the skill involved in this game is preparation. Knowing how to fit out a robot for the situation your going into. But I do understand how you wouldn't have figured this out yet considering your corp still doesn't know how to fit out robots.

And stop pulling numbers out of your *** concerning who had what equipped when you weren't even there.

Like even being there would let me know which accounts where EA or T4 equipped, so like maybe I was generalizing to make a point, or is that concept too difficult to grasp for you.

Your point about fitting is spot on though, so add that as another non-tactical issue that would have also resulted in 2.5-1 odds resulting in a different outcome.

Your're going to have to put more points into trolling though, your starting to lose your EA advantage.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

The funny part to me is infestation fights 2:1 odds in these intrusions all the time, I would absolutely love to see what would happen in an actual 1:1 fight, you know, even odds.

Also if you're placing more importance on skills/equipment than leadership you are doing it wrong.  There were a couple major errors made on the attackers side that allowed what happened to occur, and also a great deal of excellent maneuvering and calls on the defensive side that turned things around for the underdogs.  Downplay it if you want but m2s has some great tactical leaders in largescale combat and combined with an alliance of non-retarded troops who don't fit autocannons on artemises that is what won the day.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Tiggus wrote:

The funny part to me is infestation fights 2:1 odds in these intrusions all the time, I would absolutely love to see what would happen in an actual 1:1 fight, you know, even odds.

Also if you're placing more importance on skills/equipment than leadership you are doing it wrong.  There were a couple major errors made on the attackers side that allowed what happened to occur, and also a great deal of excellent maneuvering and calls on the defensive side that turned things around for the underdogs.  Downplay it if you want but m2s has some great tactical leaders in largescale combat and combined with an alliance of non-retarded troops who don't fit autocannons on artemises that is what won the day.

And I agree with you on all those points. Your alliance just automatically goes into defensive mode whenever anyone posts something in their thread they percieve as negative.

The only thing I was trying to point out, was the comment about numbers and that if both sides had the same tech and skills level (not player skill, EP skill) that the numbers would have overrun any tactics you could have used. The fact that your alliance has pulled together as a group and brought your all your team up to T4 and properly fit is great and your tactics were sound so you deserved to win this engagement....

But your corp does enough self-promotion, don't need me to, so I add some troll bait to keep us all busy at work.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

My artemis was all standard equipment fit with one t3 frame, the whole argument about equipment is largely irrelevant in my opinion.  I am quite sure most of the mechs were using T1 guns etc.

Quite honestly I don't think many of us thought we could win against those numbers even halfway through the engagement, but there came a critical moment where the enemy split their forces and thus began the dismantling.

Re: A Different Sort of Battle

Arga wrote:
Snowstyle wrote:

A large part of the skill involved in this game is preparation. Knowing how to fit out a robot for the situation your going into. But I do understand how you wouldn't have figured this out yet considering your corp still doesn't know how to fit out robots.

And stop pulling numbers out of your *** concerning who had what equipped when you weren't even there.

Like even being there would let me know which accounts where EA or T4 equipped, so like maybe I was generalizing to make a point, or is that concept too difficult to grasp for you.

Your point about fitting is spot on though, so add that as another non-tactical issue that would have also resulted in 2.5-1 odds resulting in a different outcome.

Your're going to have to put more points into trolling though, your starting to lose your EA advantage.

Yes if you had been there and looted the field you would have seen how much T3 and T4 equipment they left behind. And Joke's alliance definitely has more then 30 EA players. They have been in this game just as long as us.

I understand what a generalization is. But apparently you don't. Giving specific numbers about who in a group is doing what is not a generalization, it's the exact opposite actually.

And who said I was trolling?