Topic: My take on the state of the game

What I am going to be talking about today is the alpha-beta-gamma risk/reward balance.

Alpha

As there is no pvp allowed here, the risk is minimal. As such, players always use the best equipment as possible, many times t4+.

When it comes to ratting, the robots dont do any explosion. As such, a guy like me with a bunch of accounts can easily and reliably do 3 star mech beacon. Yes, 3 star mech beacons. As such, i make 150-200 million nic and hour. This is game breaking and needs to be fixed. A note to take: i have no t4+ and my skills arent even that high.

When it comes to harvesting/mining, alpha provides all the resources in the game anyone ever needs but epriton. Which is in beta. Gamma has colixum, which could not have been more useless to this point in the game.

As you can see, anyone can be self-sufficient in alpha, with beacons fueling the player's nic income to buy epriton.

Beta

It serves for 3 purposes:

It is the only island with epriton, highly profitable.

It has outposts and the sap loot is great.

The most important part of the beta are the terminals and its role as the first line of defence of the gamma islands. When the opposing faction that assaults gamma islands gets wiped, they have to attack again from alpha islands, making the offensive much more managable.

Gamma

As the pinnacle of power and prestige, it is the best island in the game. I thought. I was sorely mistaken. I could not have been more wrong. Now I know why Jita doesnt care about Gamma.

With absence of epriton, the resource repertoire of gamma is the same as alpha. Although it does have bigger fields, with the recent update, it will also feature red mobs, making the mining and harvesting on gamma a joke.

I personally dont believe there is a need to set up a base of operations just to artifact.

When it comes to production, gamma is the icing of the cake. But then again, are you ready to lose a bunch of rivelers to reds just so you could produce with a couple % better efficiency? (or haul your *** off from alpha to gamma) Not to mention the bases are extremely power hungry.

For the absolute protection of gamma island, you need 12 terminals. The resource cost is immense and i do not know if it is worth it to set up the base with extreme resource consumption just so you could produce a bit better with the constant threat of reds, players and mineral consumption.


So, to summarize:

As a multi-account kind of guy, i can make a billion nic in meager 5-10 hours in alpha, that will fuel my needs for anything in the game. I will have enough pvp bots for a month with a quarter a day of beaconing. Alpha is freaking op.
With the release of iron shackle CIR had on beta islands, epriton has lost value and now, almost everybody can ninja mine epriton. What this means is that even less ratting is required in alpha to be the top gun.
So, what's the main reason for me to be in gamma? The ease of mining and industry. I have to change fields less and i need to haul little to get a good production going. NOT ANYMORE. With the NPCs being reintroduced to gamma, that will not be happening anymore.
In essence, for a multi-account type of a guy, there is no real incentive for me to stay in gamma. Mostly due to the recent nerf. I am not going to say bug fixing, because if it took devs at least 9 months to fix this, then that is not a bug, but a game feature being removed/added (depending on how you look at it)



Now, where am i going to be at? Unless my awesome corp has some megasuperduper plans, im staying in alpha. What does this mean? We have another carebear that the veterans will not be able to pvp with. The majority of the population will go back to alpha. In alpha, the pvpers cant pvp. Hence, the activity of those people will lower, until they quit. When the carebears get a milestone of for example a thousand scarabs, they'll call it a day as well. 

Due to extremely overpowered alpha and gamma being lackluster at best, this game turned from a pvp-industrialist game to a hoard game that the vets told me about.

So unless you fix alpha and gamma (reintroduce epi as beta should serve as a line of defence), the game will plummet. For real, why would anyone want to get a moderate reward/high risk on gamma if they can get high reward/no risk from alpha.

So fix it, before i settle down in alpha, wait for a while and then finally pull the plug on my 15 accounts.

2 (edited by T3xasp3t3 2015-05-11 17:39:00)

Re: My take on the state of the game

On alpha i agree 100% that needs to be nurfed put a limit on the kinds of beacons you can run there or something idk how to fix it 

Beta is in my eyes are the most balanced islands on the game

As for Gamma and the red mobs i for one agree with them respwaning other wise the mining is just printing money. You're right is is more dangerous for solo mining acts, but for corp mining it adds in something for combat guys to help the miners. If some one is to laze to watch for red mobs or move out of the way then they deserve to die. it is the same way as epi mining on beta avoid the reds.

As for that worthless *** gamma mineral well it is worthless

Re: My take on the state of the game

Illiathos wrote:

What I am going to be talking about today is the alpha-beta-gamma risk/reward balance.


When it comes to ratting, the robots dont do any explosion. As such, a guy like me with a bunch of accounts can easily and reliably do 3 star mech beacon. Yes, 3 star mech beacons. As such, i make 150-200 million nic and hour. This is game breaking and needs to be fixed. A note to take: i have no t4+ and my skills arent even that high.

You will have to give me a number breakdown  on that cause the numbers seem grossly exaggerated. How much plasma, how many modules, fragments.

I do have statistics about npc farming in high end fitted bots but they never reach near 150 millions.


Otherwise many things you mentioned are correct. The thing is that this game cant be balanced around a low player count it has to be balanced around bigger numbers. The paradigma that beta is needed for gamma is not true. It takes 10 minutes at max to move a fleet from alpha to a gamma base with little chance of anyone intercepting them.

4 (edited by Chemist 2015-05-11 17:40:40)

Re: My take on the state of the game

15 accounts? Dude, it's a game, not a job. From here you have all the trouble.
But i agree - alpha overpowered. )

Re: My take on the state of the game

Herpus Derpus wrote:
Illiathos wrote:

What I am going to be talking about today is the alpha-beta-gamma risk/reward balance.


When it comes to ratting, the robots dont do any explosion. As such, a guy like me with a bunch of accounts can easily and reliably do 3 star mech beacon. Yes, 3 star mech beacons. As such, i make 150-200 million nic and hour. This is game breaking and needs to be fixed. A note to take: i have no t4+ and my skills arent even that high.

You will have to give me a number breakdown  on that cause the numbers seem grossly exaggerated. How much plasma, how many modules, fragments.

I do have statistics about npc farming in high end fitted bots but they never reach near 150 millions.


Otherwise many things you mentioned are correct. The thing is that this game cant be balanced around a low player count it has to be balanced around bigger numbers. The paradigma that beta is needed for gamma is not true. It takes 10 minutes at max to move a fleet from alpha to a gamma base with little chance of anyone intercepting them.

I farm with 2 t4 fit seths, a logi, a remote sensor amp bot, and a nexus. I kill 3 stripe beacons really fast. I get a bunch of plasma, but most money comes from hitech kernels. Ive been soloing those beacons like a month ago and i calculated approx. 400-500 million profit in the timespan of 3 hours

Re: My take on the state of the game

Chemist wrote:

15 accounts? Dude, it's a game, not a job. From here you have all the trouble.
But i agree - alpha overpowered. )

I usually mine with 8 rivs, 1 nexus and 1 scanner. The rest are for pvp/combat, so i dont use them all at the same time. Still, perp feels like a chore a lot of times.

Re: My take on the state of the game

I don't think alpha needs to be nerfed. Just make it more profitable on gamma

Re: My take on the state of the game

Gwyndor wrote:

I don't think alpha needs to be nerfed. Just make it more profitable on gamma

In essence, the profitability of the gamma/alpha needs to be raised. Be it by nerfing alpha or buffing gamma.

Re: My take on the state of the game

T3xasp3t3 wrote:

On alpha i agree 100% that needs to be nurfed put a limit on the kinds of beacons you can run there or something idk how to fix it 

Beta is in my eyes are the most balanced islands on the game

As for Gamma and the red mobs i for one agree with them respwaning other wise the mining is just printing money. You're right is is more dangerous for solo mining acts, but for corp mining it adds in something for combat guys to help the miners. If some one is to laze to watch for red mobs or move out of the way then they deserve to die. it is the same way as epi mining on beta avoid the reds.

As for that worthless *** gamma mineral well it is worthless

For a corp to set up shop in gamma, you need a lot of terminals for protections with steady supply of cryo. You are exposing your bots to danger. Will you always get the combat guys for protection? Is it more profitable to do all that just to have a bigger field than on alpha? And the combat guys could be beaconing at that time. If that is actually more profitable with better production, i dont know. I do know though that if you're solo, getting/paying for protection can make alpha ores on gamma less profitable than just simply mining on alpha.

10 (edited by Kaitzu 2015-05-11 18:09:28)

Re: My take on the state of the game

so you paid $450 to make getting NIC easy, and now your complaining it's too easy.  What about the game from the angle of the players that have just one account.  Gamma is for industry, but often just not worth it due to how "easy" a coordinated attack can take even the best base down.  Beta is a middle ground for industry, and has Epri, but as for SAP's... only real SAP loot that is worth fighting heavy for is Active Hack.  The rest you can get with less time focused on other projects then trying to manage and complete SAPs.  Alpha is the "primary" basic playing location, Beta/Gamma is the PvP zone for increased industry to keep up with the losses from battle.  As for Alpha being overpowered, your then using beacons as the example.. which have no connection to alpha other then that is where your running them.  So mabye they just need to make Beacon running only allowed on beta and gamma.

i do think Epri should also be on gamma though.. would make more sense.

11 (edited by Celebro 2015-05-11 18:16:13)

Re: My take on the state of the game

And now you know why only a few are left playing this game.

I said thousands of times to leave epriton on gamma 2.0 now that's free roaming, but no it will leave beta with too little incentives. They need to break up pvp ores into 3 or 4 different ones. The foundations of the game (which is balancing risk/reward) is completely out of whack , the devs know, but no time for that, they have to complete PVE 2.0. fuuu

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: My take on the state of the game

Illiathos spent $450.   
I can't even begin to imagine how much money Peanut spent.

Who's "winning" Perpetuum?  The devs obviously.   

I think I get what happened here. They got pwn3d in Eve, so they created a clone which is *really* a $$ scam for former Eve players.

+1 devs.

Re: My take on the state of the game

Kayin Prime wrote:

Illiathos spent $450.   
I can't even begin to imagine how much money Peanut spent.

Who's "winning" Perpetuum?  The devs obviously.   

I think I get what happened here. They got pwn3d in Eve, so they created a clone which is *really* a $$ scam for former Eve players.

+1 devs.

They might be getting more money if more people joined due to the game being more balanced tongue

14 (edited by Kayin Prime 2015-05-11 18:50:16)

Re: My take on the state of the game

In all fairness to the devs.  You  *CAN* still mine on Gamma and it's not all *that* risky.  You just have to move if you see a pack coming. I know not all of your accounts are miners. tongue

You just can't AFK mine like you can on alpha. You actually have to do some small effort of activity involving a thought or two - almost like - you know - playing a game?  As crap-tacular of an experience as mining in Perp is. Mining with a small bit of risk is still more exciting than being asleep on your keyboard racking in the worthless NIC. That's not an exaggeration - I have literally been asleep while mining.   In fact I think everyone here has.

Truthfully, I'd rather watch netflix and grind trade on elite dangerous,  even go insane mining an asteroid belt on Elite Dangerous, or engage in a much much more satisfying mining experience in a ship I personally designed and built in space engineers than watch a bunch of stacked Johnny 5 / Wall-E  rip offs circle jerk to a red stream of nothingness.

That's just me though.    Seriously though - anyone? space engineers?  I host on the cloud (f u Anni)  big_smile

Re: My take on the state of the game

Oh - and my official recommendation to the Devs to 'balance' alpha's obvious and ridiculous OP-ness:

- Make all NPCs Roam Red on alpha
- Add a wandering Beastmode Boss NPC as a superior observer with +33% damage and drops.  Homage to BMG.

Re: My take on the state of the game

Hey look Dev Zoom, it's not just me anymore.....

Gamma is plagued with a few problems:

- Terraforming is just not fun and entertaining as it once was.  God it was so much fun in the original system.
- Energy wells need to be a lot more efficient, PERIOD.  And honestly I would do a trade off for an energy well that created three times the amount output from one field that DOES NOT have reinforcement timers.
- Red mobs move TOO FAST, if I am out mining and I have to pee.  And I walk to the bathroom, urinate and comeback observers can be on top of me in a 25 second window.  And they follow you forever, which leads me to:
- NPCs need to have their AI fixed, this follow people forever as long as they see them is bullshit.  And to be honest quite ridiculous in nature.  This one mechanic has caused so much grief and you guys simply ignore fixing it.  "teleporting NPCs" are a joke(a bad one).
- No need for colixum
- Costs too much to put it all on the line to be zerged by highest member count alliance.

Benefits of Gamma:

-  Noralgis farms.
-  Staging for pvp.

Honestly, there is NO reason to be or own a gamma unless it is strategically used to position for pvp.  There is 0 need to do production out there.  You can't run a successful production outfit unless you have fragments, there is not enough npcs for fragments and adding more roaming spawns is not the answer for it.  You also can't get the decoders you need for production.  You would have to do beacons out there.  But the problem with doing beacons is you never know when that wondering observer is just going to show up and kill everything on the field, then you lose money...

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: My take on the state of the game

Ville wrote:

Hey look Dev Zoom, it's not just me anymore.....

Gamma is plagued with a few problems:

- Terraforming is just not fun and entertaining as it once was.  God it was so much fun in the original system.
- Energy wells need to be a lot more efficient, PERIOD.  And honestly I would do a trade off for an energy well that created three times the amount output from one field that DOES NOT have reinforcement timers.
- Red mobs move TOO FAST, if I am out mining and I have to pee.  And I walk to the bathroom, urinate and comeback observers can be on top of me in a 25 second window.  And they follow you forever, which leads me to:
- NPCs need to have their AI fixed, this follow people forever as long as they see them is bullshit.  And to be honest quite ridiculous in nature.  This one mechanic has caused so much grief and you guys simply ignore fixing it.  "teleporting NPCs" are a joke(a bad one).
- No need for colixum
- Costs too much to put it all on the line to be zerged by highest member count alliance.

Benefits of Gamma:

-  Noralgis farms.
-  Staging for pvp.

Honestly, there is NO reason to be or own a gamma unless it is strategically used to position for pvp.  There is 0 need to do production out there.  You can't run a successful production outfit unless you have fragments, there is not enough npcs for fragments and adding more roaming spawns is not the answer for it.  You also can't get the decoders you need for production.  You would have to do beacons out there.  But the problem with doing beacons is you never know when that wondering observer is just going to show up and kill everything on the field, then you lose money...

+1 and on second note... VILLE IS UNBANNED!! BEST DAY EVER! <3

Re: My take on the state of the game

<3

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

19 (edited by Burial 2015-05-11 19:47:47)

Re: My take on the state of the game

The game is going nowhere as long as risk/reward system is not fixed.

Re: My take on the state of the game

Yea. Gamma is near worthless. Can't even artifact after 5/12

Re: My take on the state of the game

On people *** about red mobs just move out of there way. On a side note they do move waaaay to fast for how beefy they are

Re: My take on the state of the game

T3xasp3t3 wrote:

On people *** about red mobs just move out of there way. On a side note they do move waaaay to fast for how beefy they are

only if you are alone

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: My take on the state of the game

Artifacters are almost always alone

Re: My take on the state of the game

Well my 8 miners arent alone tongue

Re: My take on the state of the game

The artifacters i know move faster then npc, and are barely noticed by them.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear