Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Oh and since your fixing the missions.

Dev Zoom do you plan on adding to the token shop with the mission change?  Since they are kind of the reason why we do missions?

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Phantomburn wrote:

Oh and since your fixing the missions.

Dev Zoom do you plan on adding to the token shop with the mission change?  Since they are kind of the reason why we do missions?

Yes, that will be part of the finishing touches, more details soon.

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Phantomburn wrote:
Jita wrote:
Phantomburn wrote:

And not to derail your little love taps but I'd love to buy credits but I have nothing to spend them on.  Can you make something for me to Spend Credits on?

Give some to noodlez so he can quit spurting tears out of his eyes about how he cant do anything but the ictus.

I am glad you pointed this out.  Theres only TWO options to spend credits, I boost!  Or I Respec, which is a nice pay to win option for FoTM.

Besides that theres nothing.

*edit: Inappropriate. - DEV Zoom

What do you think you should be able to spend credits on?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Jita wrote:
Phantomburn wrote:
Jita wrote:

Give some to noodlez so he can quit spurting tears out of his eyes about how he cant do anything but the ictus.

I am glad you pointed this out.  Theres only TWO options to spend credits, I boost!  Or I Respec, which is a nice pay to win option for FoTM.

Besides that theres nothing.

*edit: Inappropriate. - DEV Zoom

What do you think you should be able to spend credits on?

Paint jobs, collector items, vanity decals and backgrounds.  Etc...

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

DEV Zoom wrote:
Phantomburn wrote:

Oh and since your fixing the missions.

Dev Zoom do you plan on adding to the token shop with the mission change?  Since they are kind of the reason why we do missions?

Yes, that will be part of the finishing touches, more details soon.


Thank you.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

31 (edited by Danil Arilaes 2015-03-20 21:59:07)

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

I know this a no-no, but has it been considered to do a re-launch with wipe?

The new mission system doesn't matter one bit as long as the persistent corps remain. When you can't get anywhere without being part of one of the few corps that literally control everything. I want to come back and I want to play... but I also know stepping in that everything is both spoken for and crazily defended.

So I stay on Alpha and mine or PvE or whatever... I imagine a lot of players have a lot less patience than I do even when all I'm doing is coming back and checking forums for the promised monthly update that never gets published.

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Danil let me explain what's happening.  Older corps have amassed large amounts of everything.  They stockpile it.  Because they have billions of nic too.  So the nature cycle in a mmo when this happens is another step is added to make older corps have to participate in industrial endeavors.  For example

Adding new robots/modules T5.  This would force veteran player corps to put their industry back on the field.  Opening up opportunity for smaller corps to not only get Pvp but slow the snowballing effect.  And it would slow the overall relentless assault from pvpers.  Because they would have to grind for the better gear.  It also creates market flow as veteran corps would invest in the market to gain things they need like kernals, raw ores and other things.  But alas we can only dream about new content.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

personally for me i always thought the internal markets was a terrible thing to have so early on, dont get me wrong i see the benefit of it but in terms of growth its one of things that might have gimped the game abit

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

helios wrote:

personally for me i always thought the internal markets was a terrible thing to have so early on, dont get me wrong i see the benefit of it but in terms of growth its one of things that might have gimped the game abit

you still need to explain, why without internal market the game would do better. with an realistic example of what you expect to happen.

Same as Ville needs to explain how making vet corps stronger by giving them even better equip (that they don't need to grind for because they already have so many resources that they will mass-produce it right away) would be beneficial for the game.
Well, Zoom can copy&paste all robots, make a mk3 version that has 1% better stats and make them require two 2 fully built mk2 robots as component in their production, additionally to their already doubled epri and colixium mats.
two month later he will add another tier of robots that has another 1% better stats for 4x the cost.

and the best part... you can't use that gear in PvP at all, since who do you want to face with it?

first thing the DEVs need to fix, is giving existant stuff value.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Annihilator wrote:
helios wrote:

personally for me i always thought the internal markets was a terrible thing to have so early on, dont get me wrong i see the benefit of it but in terms of growth its one of things that might have gimped the game abit

you still need to explain, why without internal market the game would do better. with an realistic example of what you expect to happen.

Same as Ville needs to explain how making vet corps stronger by giving them even better equip (that they don't need to grind for because they already have so many resources that they will mass-produce it right away) would be beneficial for the game.
Well, Zoom can copy&paste all robots, make a mk3 version that has 1% better stats and make them require two 2 fully built mk2 robots as component in their production, additionally to their already doubled epri and colixium mats.
two month later he will add another tier of robots that has another 1% better stats for 4x the cost.

and the best part... you can't use that gear in PvP at all, since who do you want to face with it?

first thing the DEVs need to fix, is giving existant stuff value.

but to be honest this game has been the same for 2 years... nothing has really changed that could make the game more interesting. besides that the stockpiling and faceroll is what costs us people to stay in the game.
and the last remove of loot on AOE destruction has struck so many vets (or medium advanced players)  to not being able to get to the point of that stockpile and research anymore. basically if u havent played before the removal of beacon pits. ur research will go 1000x slower than what the vets did.

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Stockpiles by themselves aren't the problem.

The problem is there is nothing to use them on.

Beta has been steadily nerfed into the ground so the only real difference is +50 NIC on plasma and local epriton. Missions are more or less worthless money-wise for the effort required.

The most efficient way to generate liquid NIC is to do what a lot of dudes are doing all-day-erry-day build or pick one of the available botting programs, run it on Alpha for a week or so, cash in the plasma. No risk no effort except micromanaging ammunition and schedule for reloading.

Existing stuff has a value. The Devs simply removed any and all reasons (besides epeen) for using up existing stockpiles, so the only natural thing to happen is that stockpiles are drastically growing. Perpetuum was fun when we went to war for territory that was actually useful back in '10, now a days it's just bored botters fighting bored infinite-stockpiles and random noobs dreaming about overcoming 4-5 years of hardcore stockpiling.

Wipe won't solve it. It would just reset the stockpiling timer, until there's a reason to really spend resources the stockpiles will just keep on growing. To solve it the Devs would have to understand their own game and redesign the Alpha & Beta reward systems, which is a lost battle. Every time they removed a source of income (kernel sales, transport missions, beacon pits 1-2-3-4-5-6-7) the only thing they really did was insure nobody will ever be able to catch up to the existing stockpiles.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Annihilator wrote:
helios wrote:

personally for me i always thought the internal markets was a terrible thing to have so early on, dont get me wrong i see the benefit of it but in terms of growth its one of things that might have gimped the game abit

you still need to explain, why without internal market the game would do better. with an realistic example of what you expect to happen.

Same as Ville needs to explain how making vet corps stronger by giving them even better equip (that they don't need to grind for because they already have so many resources that they will mass-produce it right away) would be beneficial for the game.
Well, Zoom can copy&paste all robots, make a mk3 version that has 1% better stats and make them require two 2 fully built mk2 robots as component in their production, additionally to their already doubled epri and colixium mats.
two month later he will add another tier of robots that has another 1% better stats for 4x the cost.

and the best part... you can't use that gear pin PvP at all, since who do you want to face with it?

first thing the DEVs need to fix, is giving existant stuff value.

If I as a player have to login and do more industry side stuff, mining and grinding kernels etc...  I have less time to pvp.  If I have less time to pvp then smaller entity's have a chance of striking out in pvp zones ninjaing saps, mining epriton etc..  The thing is when new stuff comes out there's always this bucket down grind for it get to work type feeling.  veteran corps always turtle back to one island and focus hard on their industrial base. 

Look at games like DOTA.  Same map different characters, vanity items, skins...  Stuff like that can work in Perpetuum.  Imagine if you could build customizable skins on individual robots.  How many pink kains would be running around.  How many different camo schemes.  Hell at this point I'd like to see faction ammo crates you can buy with perp credits.  in essence you kinda have it already.  Buy ICE sell ICE then buy faction ammo.  But instead for 500 perp credits you could buy 2500 med and small ammo of a faction color..

And where's our large guns?  Not capable of hitting small targets.  Long optimal ranges and only 4 slots on a heavy 2 on a mech???

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

I don't ever agree with syndic normally, but he is right when he talks about the lack of demand for territory and the lack of demand for risking assets for anything other than epeen. Gamma is easy to defend because there aren't enough tools for small groups to siege with and there aren't enough people to zerg the bases with the small tools available. Gamma is fine as is but its because there isn't much risk. If the tools were made available to siege a gamma base then there needs to be benifit appropriate to the risk. Beta is too easy to block off or at least scout to where there is no risk farming. Even the smallest player could drop prox probes as eyes and mine epriton all day because of the low population. But if there is no risk of losing assets it just becomes a stockpile activity.

39 (edited by Jita 2015-03-21 17:51:41)

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Lab Geek wrote:

I don't ever agree with syndic normally, but he is right when he talks about the lack of demand for territory and the lack of demand for risking assets for anything other than epeen. Gamma is easy to defend because there aren't enough tools for small groups to siege with and there aren't enough people to zerg the bases with the small tools available. Gamma is fine as is but its because there isn't much risk. If the tools were made available to siege a gamma base then there needs to be benifit appropriate to the risk. Beta is too easy to block off or at least scout to where there is no risk farming. Even the smallest player could drop prox probes as eyes and mine epriton all day because of the low population. But if there is no risk of losing assets it just becomes a stockpile activity.

You don't know what your talking about. 10 dedicated people can take any base in the game

Ville has the right idea. Stockpiles only make a different when there is no power and money inflation. If new stuff were added then old stuff would be worth less and you would be required to do industry or fall behind.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

10 could pve a base but if anyone is defending its quite the force multiplier. If that's all it takes why don't you attack any of the dozens of terminals around?

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

One peanut can take any base in game.  I do mean any.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Lab Geek wrote:

10 could pve a base but if anyone is defending its quite the force multiplier. If that's all it takes why don't you attack any of the dozens of terminals around?

Because what would be the point? Also there aren't 10 dedicated people left in the game.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

if you take gamma as an example how "implementing something new as material sink" -> you see how much worth that idea is, mr. "i have to move my energy wells to often".

if you wouldn't sit on millions of units of T4 equip and MK2 mechs of all classes, you would actually see the worth of an ictus. If there would be large scale fights, you would actually see the worth of all green robots.
if you wouldn't ally the majority of the server you would have a use for all the assets you produce endlessly for the fight you will never get.
you know, diplomacy works...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

I would gladly use all assets available for PvP but the only people I have run into in 16 hours playing peep the last few days are pakaw and opium. I see ten available players that post in the forums and can't organize to be on at the same time more than once per week.

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Speaking of PvP, I seem to have missed the best fight in a while xD keep em coming and ill be recruiting all my friends to come to perp. We need more action like that!

46 (edited by Burial 2015-03-21 21:02:24)

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Phantomburn wrote:

Danil let me explain what's happening.  Older corps have amassed large amounts of everything.  They stockpile it.  Because they have billions of nic too.  So the nature cycle in a mmo when this happens is another step is added to make older corps have to participate in industrial endeavors.  For example

Adding new robots/modules T5.  This would force veteran player corps to put their industry back on the field.  Opening up opportunity for smaller corps to not only get Pvp but slow the snowballing effect.  And it would slow the overall relentless assault from pvpers.  Because they would have to grind for the better gear.  It also creates market flow as veteran corps would invest in the market to gain things they need like kernals, raw ores and other things.  But alas we can only dream about new content.

Works until new tech is hoarded to the same extent. If the only drawback to stronger equipment is higher production cost then adding new tech is actually making the issue worse.

It's easy to T4 fit most robots with minor drawbacks. Should it be that easy with T5? Wouldn't it give more value to lower tier equipment if players had to choose what's worth upgrading and what's not besides considering it's cost?

Jita wrote:

Ville has the right idea. Stockpiles only make a different when there is no power and money inflation. If new stuff were added then old stuff would be worth less and you would be required to do industry or fall behind.

Bomb diggity.

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Annihilator wrote:

if you take gamma as an example how "implementing something new as material sink" -> you see how much worth that idea is, mr. "i have to move my energy wells to often".

if you wouldn't sit on millions of units of T4 equip and MK2 mechs of all classes, you would actually see the worth of an ictus. If there would be large scale fights, you would actually see the worth of all green robots.
if you wouldn't ally the majority of the server you would have a use for all the assets you produce endlessly for the fight you will never get.
you know, diplomacy works...

Oh I'm sorry did you finally get brave when the cats away?  let me tell you about diplomacy.  The leadership of NSE and Ethos can to us with an idea.  An idea to let another faction join the game and have fun.  We knew if we didn't say yes it would destroy the game.  Let's talk diplomacy Annihilator,  you and your fellow 2 million + EP accounts stomp all over 4 to 5 dudes with 750 k EP in the sake of a good fight!  It's funny when I and 4 to 5 others login and wait you don't show up for a good fight.  You only want to take and roll over noobs.  Hell I make the other 77 and CIR guys wait at a login screen now.  It's so amusing to watch.  The evolution of STC 2.0.  Lead by Zoltan.  Heh.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Burial wrote:
Phantomburn wrote:

Danil let me explain what's happening.  Older corps have amassed large amounts of everything.  They stockpile it.  Because they have billions of nic too.  So the nature cycle in a mmo when this happens is another step is added to make older corps have to participate in industrial endeavors.  For example

Adding new robots/modules T5.  This would force veteran player corps to put their industry back on the field.  Opening up opportunity for smaller corps to not only get Pvp but slow the snowballing effect.  And it would slow the overall relentless assault from pvpers.  Because they would have to grind for the better gear.  It also creates market flow as veteran corps would invest in the market to gain things they need like kernals, raw ores and other things.  But alas we can only dream about new content.

Works until new tech is hoarded to the same extent. If the only drawback to stronger equipment is higher production cost then adding new tech is actually making the issue worse.

It's easy to T4 fit most robots with minor drawbacks. Should it be that easy with T5? Wouldn't it give more value to lower tier equipment if players had to choose what's worth upgrading and what's not besides considering it's cost?

Jita wrote:

Ville has the right idea. Stockpiles only make a different when there is no power and money inflation. If new stuff were added then old stuff would be worth less and you would be required to do industry or fall behind.

Bomb diggity.

This is were steady content, proper balancing and linear progress keeps coming in every 6 months to a year.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

I'm really digging the stealth server wipe topic.

It has been foretold, and so it will come to pass.

I am Perpetuum.

50 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-03-22 09:34:05)

Re: Reality check - Features & Balance

Perpetuum wrote:

I'm really digging the stealth server wipe topic.

It has been foretold, and so it will come to pass.

I know if I lost EVERY thing Bar my Ep I could live with that tho losing my Tech would make me sad.I would be willing to make that sacrifice for the good of the game.
But If i lost my EP as well. would be the end of perpetuum for me for good.  my Ep is the most Basic thing I have gotten in return for handing over a $1000.00 in Subscriptions to the DEVs smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue