Topic: Post Balancing Patch.

You've asked us to give us some time to work on the new Mechanics and I want to give you some Facts.  Listed below is information pulled from http://Sequer.nl .

Facts:

March 2015 (Top 6):
Seth Mk2  56 Kills
Mesmer Mk2 55 Kills
Vagabond Mk2 43 Kills
Artemis  40 Kills
Seth  39 Kills
Artemis Mk2  37 Kills

Interesting Facts:  Sequers have more kills than an Ictus and Arkhes have more kills than a Waspish

Feb 2015 (Top 6):

Seth 95
Artemis 69
Artemis Mk2 57
Arbalest Mk2 47
Seth Mk2 46
Kain Mk2 40

Scarabs's had more kills this month than an Ictus mk1.

Jan 2015(Top 6):

Artemis Mk2 143
Arbalest Mk2 121
Seth Mk2 119
Baphomet Mk2 113
Seth 86
Artemis 76

No Ictus were used in the killing of robots this month.

December 2014(Top 6):

Arbalest Mk2 262
Artemis Mk2 128
Artemis 101
Kain Mk2 94
Castel Mk2 85
Baphomet Mk2 70

Only month were a green combat topped the 6, and its a tackle bot.

November 2014(Top 6):

Gropho Mk2 124
Arbalest Mk2 121
Mesmer Mk2 118
Kain Mk2 102
Cameleon Mk2 99
Castel Mk2 69

Hey look pre patch players actually used green robots in PVP!

Interesting take aways:  Clear imbalance between the races.  Green combat pilots are not being utilized in pvp.  Enwar is not being utilized in pvp.

Possible reasons: 
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … the-patch/

I told you in November that the Ictus would be deemed obsolete.  It infact in the past three months has become obsolete. 

Why don't players use Ictus?  Theres no need in them, the Flavor of the month is a Seth MK2.  The Seth has such a massive buffer to compensate for energy cells(Lazers) AND has the most amount of leg and head slots.  So you can create a platform that has Great tank AND AND with autocannons can have GREAT DPS!  So now you have a platform that can laugh at Ewar and Enwar with 1 ECCM and 1 Enwar.  Add an Injector + autocannons BAM!  You got an ultimate powerhouse platform that negates ALL forms of Ewar/Enwar and you have plenty of DPS Slap some plates, ERP, repper, 2 sensor amps and GG ***!  So basically you have walking death platform marching at you with zero *** given.

I want the developers to understand something.  The Ictus role in PVP was to create space.  The Ictus were usually the ones control the distance of the fight.  They created buffer zones.  This buffer zone is the limited engagement Zone.  The limited engagement zones were created to allow for pushing and allow for retreat.  The Zenith Long range demobilization did the same thing.  It allows you to fight out number and become tactical.  You don't have tactical pvp in this game anymore.  Let me repeat this, You, the developers, have removed the greatest part of pvp in this game.  The ability to move over terrain and fight and move through zones is fun, amazing, pulse gripping and some of the most heart pounding fun in any game.  You removed that.  You did this in a number of steps un knowingly attempting to balance other aspects of the game.

1.  You rebalanced the game around to create a better more forgiving environment.  But you didn't.  You turned the game into a solid numbers game.  Who has the most online at the time wins the war, and don't ANYONE tell me that it's always been that way because it hasn't.  I personally was involved in small pvp environments with Eharmony and the rebuilding of CIR. 
2.  You added more LOS obstacles, you have halfed the trees, but its still an issue.
3.  You increased the speed of the game, this pains me to say this but this makes it too easy for everyone and their mother to just throw on as many plates as possible and cruise around an island.  There is a difference when you had to walk at 43 KPH with plates and resistance with heavys and now at 75 KPH...  Flipping the script on this the logistics are too easy now to move massively plated fleets.  Well Ville!  Aren't huge fleets what you wanted in pvp?? Yes, but the first time someone goes boom in the middle of the fleet it can be the death to the entire group and it turns into who has the most people.
4.  Sparks, The game is too small for it.  Please for the love of god remove this feature.
5.  Removing tactical roles from robots.  I get it you don't want people to be held down and rolled in a pvp fight, we get it.  I agree.  But they are purely negated with 1 anti tuning(Enwar/ECCM).

I'll Suggest it again to bring balance to the force:

Ictus Roles need to go from 3% to 5% on neutralized and Drained amount.
Vagabond Needs a better masking bonus:  Or a Small Shield bonus 3%
Zenith Needs Demob bonus back. And better masking bonus/Shield bonus
Gropho/Tyr need help in some area:  DPS or Tank.  both need help. 

In Closing:  I feel like this game was better in 2011.  Thanks

TL:DR

There was 15 in general chat when I logged off last night, 3 of them where Miss Chivas, 4 Alts of an NSE guy and 4 Alts of an Uncorped guy, Grave Digger, Inda and like 2 other dudes. ...

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

DEV Zoom wrote:

Ictus:

The Ictus was very overpowered before the patch and needed a straight nerf, we're not denying that. But we don't think it's obsolete, even with the Seth coming very close to it in its own role. You need to understand that it's bad gameplay to shut down someone's accumulator in a few seconds without being able to do anything. We're trying to move away from these extremities, and this also applies for ECM (we have a few incoming changes there too).

The Ictus is still more agile and more efficient in neutralizing than the Seth, but if you really think they're too close then the solution isn't to boost the Ictus back, but perhaps to remove a misc slot from heavies.

For Reference.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

3 (edited by Annihilator 2015-03-16 19:39:19)

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

who cares?

so bitter about your loss yesterday?

*edit: on topic*

how much of that statistics makes up CIR+pets ?
all runs i participated recently have been just to robots everyone was trained into for years. Only Jita switched to a seth because he believes you big_smile

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

4 (edited by Celebro 2015-03-16 19:37:36)

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Great post Ville, right on the the issues, with facts to back it up!

RIP PERPETUUM

5 (edited by Phantomburn 2015-03-16 20:02:36)

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Annihilator wrote:

who cares?

so bitter about your loss yesterday?

*edit: on topic*

how much of that statistics makes up CIR+pets ?
all runs i participated recently have been just to robots everyone was trained into for years. Only Jita switched to a seth because he believes you big_smile

haha good one Anni!  I look forward with having lots of more fights with you in the future as I have returned in the US timezone.

To answer your Second Question:
CIR was very inactive during February and March. I guess some of the fights included Joke, Chaos,Remedy and Beastmode, but those are the only people we keep chained like pets to Alpha.

I am not referring to you guys directly, I predicted this in November.  Prior to everyone stop playing.  And only 20 die hards staying in claiming lands after everyone leaves.

@Celebro:  Thanks smile

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

you dont get to the point.

there are simply not enough player for any of those statistics you bring as "facts" matter. Simply because the majority of those statistics consist of subjective teachings.

the only fact that counts for the last four month is the lack of follow up patches and that there was no montly blog in february.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Annihilator wrote:

you dont get to the point.

there are simply not enough player for any of those statistics you bring as "facts" matter. Simply because the majority of those statistics consist of subjective teachings.

the only fact that counts for the last four month is the lack of follow up patches and that there was no montly blog in february.

Dear ***,  How can you even begin to argue that the last "balance" patch DIDn't *** everything up.

This will be good, this has to be good.

I am Perpetuum.

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Phantomburn wrote:

December 2014:

Arbalest Mk2 262

SUP BRUH IM LOOKIN AT YOU

Good post, Ville.

Funny about people saying we have no numbers to back up real statistics. You realize that those people are THE ONLY ones playing the game and devs alienate them even further with this kind of *** balance? Besides, most of the vets who are capable of running plenty of different robots, stick just to several currently useful ones because there's no sense in fielding other bots for limited number of units you have. For example, Zenith, the easiest bot to *** killmails with, is not even anywhere in statistics post patch because its usability is 0 - rather field another DPS-bot.

GGWP devs.

I believe pvp could be very exciting and the game has what it takes. But this is game is ruined and we all know  by who, it´s by corps like CiR, -77- and PHM. - by Fu ManChu

9 (edited by BeastmodeGuNs 2015-03-16 21:46:15)

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Phantomburn wrote:

. I guess some of the fights included Joke, Chaos,Remedy and Beastmode, but those are the only people we keep chained like pets to Alpha.

I'm just sitting here amused that this is what you think you've been doing, yet your allies are on the verge of failscade. in the same manner as CONS too.

Reading this signature fills you with determination.

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

While I agree balance is terrible pulling numbers off the ten guys who PvP is dumb.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Jita wrote:

While I agree balance is terrible pulling numbers off the ten guys who PvP is dumb.

Well, I could swear there would be more pvping stats, if those obsolete green accounts like mine weren't sitting idle.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

BeastmodeGuNs wrote:
Phantomburn wrote:

. I guess some of the fights included Joke, Chaos,Remedy and Beastmode, but those are the only people we keep chained like pets to Alpha.

I'm just sitting here amused that this is what you think you've been doing, yet your allies are on the verge of failscade. in the same manner as CONS too.

They are??  News to me last night when we were forming fleets we had this stuff rolling.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Sad to see how 1:3 of the combat mechs in this game are now useless. RIP green mechs. you were fun.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Nerf Seth! big_smile

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Burial wrote:

Nerf Seth! big_smile

Boost Devs.

16 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-03-17 12:13:15)

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Phantomburn wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

Ictus:

The Ictus was very overpowered before the patch and needed a straight nerf, we're not denying that. But we don't think it's obsolete, even with the Seth coming very close to it in its own role. You need to understand that it's bad gameplay to shut down someone's accumulator in a few seconds without being able to do anything. We're trying to move away from these extremities, and this also applies for ECM (we have a few incoming changes there too).

The Ictus is still more agile and more efficient in neutralizing than the Seth, but if you really think they're too close then the solution isn't to boost the Ictus back, but perhaps to remove a misc slot from heavies.

For Reference.

Ok why the Hell would you intentionally put the Seth & Ictus so close to each other in this role?

First off Nueting & Draining are LOS no? lets see now mechs in general move faster theres a hell of alot more trees around.  Smart players can always keep in cover OR maybe just ECM / suppress the Ictus??

All i remember is the Ictus Mk2 could be a real tanky SOB to kill.  Did i miss howls of "NERF this mech" on the forums?

But wait theres more!
Instead of addressing the "problem" aka the ictus or energy neutralization in general maybe? Your happy to turn around and nerf ALL heavies???? by removing their misc. slot??
http://community.spiceworks.com/attachm … cepalm.jpg

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Phantomburn wrote:

They are??  News to me last night when we were forming fleets we had this stuff rolling.

According to SunnyJester himself they are, we had a chat about it in general chat on the weekend. Can't quote right now since I'm at work.


On Ictus': I never understood why they nerfed the ictus this hard. Yes, I remember it being enourmously annoying (Lemon during golden newbie-STC times in his ictus mk2 especially); yet as far as I know there is a counter-module to energy warfare ingame. If we want to shield ourselves from ECM/sensor suppressor we use ECCM and sensor amplifiers, yet I've never seen a single fit with the reactor sealer (I think that's what it is named?) in use.
For me personally it was due to the lack of use compared to other low slot modules (lwf+shield+accu stuff with ewar / plates and hardeners in dps), yet if people complained that much, why didn't they counterfit against an ictus like they do against a vagabond?
I would have debated an additional lowslot to some mechs to give them the option to fit against ictus ewar as they have the possibility to fit against a vagabond with the significantly larger number of headslots.

As for Tyrannos and Gropho I can not comment since I don't have a clue on green dps bots big_smile

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Ictus was fine post energy drainer change. The only time it was overpowered was the oldschool curse fitting that was virtually unkillable.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

good analysis. good.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

also Khetar a lot of fits would use an energy injector over a reactor sealing as a counter to neuts. They get used a lot more.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

21 (edited by Syndic 2015-03-17 16:54:39)

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

When we actively play, we dominate and everyone fighting us quits.

When we don't actively play, reformed rag-tag alliance #26763363 talks about fits and stuff on the forum.

Patch pattern:
Good Balance -> nerf EWar -> Ictus OP -> Nerf Ictus -> Heavy OP -> Heavy n+1 OP (CURRENT)

Thats how you flush your game down the toilet. Population didn't leave by accident, you don't take 30$ then play whackamole and obliterate entire PVP niches without consequences.

OH I FORGOT

I *** TOLD YOU SO AND YOU WERE BEING A SMART-ASS MAKING REMARKS ABOUT REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY.

GG lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Syndic wrote:

When we actively play, we dominate and everyone fighting us quits.

When we don't actively play, reformed rag-tag alliance #26763363 talks about fits and stuff on the forum.

Patch pattern:
Good Balance -> nerf EWar -> Ictus OP -> Nerf Ictus -> Heavy OP -> Heavy n+1 OP (CURRENT)

Thats how you flush your game down the toilet. Population didn't leave by accident, you don't take 30$ then play whackamole and obliterate entire PVP niches without consequences.

OH I FORGOT

I *** TOLD YOU SO AND YOU WERE BEING A SMART-ASS MAKING REMARKS ABOUT REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY.

GG lol

quoting this as a good example of your incredible lack of self analysis.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Post Balancing Patch.

Khetar wrote:
Phantomburn wrote:

They are??  News to me last night when we were forming fleets we had this stuff rolling.

According to SunnyJester himself they are, we had a chat about it in general chat on the weekend. Can't quote right now since I'm at work.


On Ictus': I never understood why they nerfed the ictus this hard. Yes, I remember it being enourmously annoying (Lemon during golden newbie-STC times in his ictus mk2 especially); yet as far as I know there is a counter-module to energy warfare ingame. If we want to shield ourselves from ECM/sensor suppressor we use ECCM and sensor amplifiers, yet I've never seen a single fit with the reactor sealer (I think that's what it is named?) in use.
For me personally it was due to the lack of use compared to other low slot modules (lwf+shield+accu stuff with ewar / plates and hardeners in dps), yet if people complained that much, why didn't they counterfit against an ictus like they do against a vagabond?
I would have debated an additional lowslot to some mechs to give them the option to fit against ictus ewar as they have the possibility to fit against a vagabond with the significantly larger number of headslots.

As for Tyrannos and Gropho I can not comment since I don't have a clue on green dps bots big_smile

They are suffering the same