Topic: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Just for the creativity and freedom there was nothing like this in other mmo's . The free roaming around was an issue but could have been fixed with better or more specialized bots for sieges.

I think this killed the game basically also lost a lot in game persistence.

Advice for the future: Balance the game with the help of players by giving them the tools needed.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

I miss it too!

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

I know it was over powered but I just want to be able to carve out a mountain.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Celebro wrote:

Just for the creativity and freedom there was nothing like this in other mmo's . The free roaming around was an issue but could have been fixed with better or more specialized bots for sieges.

I think this killed the game basically also lost a lot in game persistence.

Advice for the future: Balance the game with the help of players by giving them the tools needed.

You think this killed the game...

Ok.

I am Perpetuum.

5 (edited by Celebro 2015-03-04 17:24:17)

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Perpetuum wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Just for the creativity and freedom there was nothing like this in other mmo's . The free roaming around was an issue but could have been fixed with better or more specialized bots for sieges.

I think this killed the game basically also lost a lot in game persistence.

Advice for the future: Balance the game with the help of players by giving them the tools needed.

You think this killed the game...

Ok.

For me it did, free terraforming and decent safety on gamma was one of the only reasons I kept playing, the recent balancing changes was the last nail in the coffin.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Decent safety.

You can say that with a straight face?  It was complete safety.  100 Percent!

I am Perpetuum.

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Dude, if they kept erosion and the anti base sprawl the old terraforming mechanics can work.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Yea dude, totally.  Could work.

Lets waste another year, and find out!

I am Perpetuum.

9 (edited by Burial 2015-03-05 13:14:45)

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Island-wide terraforming with hardly any restrictions was broken as hell. On one hand, we had islands that were horrible to roam on and on other we had bases that needed around-the-clock safekeeping from anyone bored with handfull of alts and some free time.


I spent a lot of time building walls, ramps and passages, the freedom the system had was great, but it's better it's gone.

10 (edited by Celebro 2015-03-05 17:09:44)

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Perpetuum wrote:

Decent safety.

You can say that with a straight face?  It was complete safety.  100 Percent!

Dude the problem was the lack of population and tools needed to make it more risky. There was no such thing as 100% safety many people lost stuff in gamma even ICE.

How safe is Eve in null surrounded by a sea of blues?

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Yea, now I know Celebro is off the rails.

I am Perpetuum.

12 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-03-06 11:57:17)

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Celebro wrote:
Perpetuum wrote:

Decent safety.

You can say that with a straight face?  It was complete safety.  100 Percent!

Dude the problem was the lack of population and tools needed to make it more risky. There was no such thing as 100% safety many people lost stuff in gamma even ICE.

How safe is Eve in null surrounded by a sea of blues?

First off @ the EVE comment... its not safe at all. But in eve theres have never been mechanics that let you block off an entire area like TFing 1.0 Not sure where your trying to go with that comment.

Second population would have made TFing 1.0 even more OP. Terra forming wasn't a population problem is was a mechanic problem.

I think you have forgotten how broken TFing was.

Saying that however what we now have is just sad & very hard to use.which is a shame.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

13 (edited by Celebro 2015-03-06 14:13:21)

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Perpetuum wrote:

Decent safety.

You can say that with a straight face?  It was complete safety.  100 Percent!

Dude the problem was the lack of population and tools needed to make it more risky. There was no such thing as 100% safety many people lost stuff in gamma even ICE.

How safe is Eve in null surrounded by a sea of blues?

First off @ the EVE comment... its not safe at all. But in eve theres have never been mechanics that let you block off an entire area like TFing 1.0 Not sure where your trying to go with that comment.

Second population would have made TFing 1.0 even more OP. Terra forming wasn't a population problem is was a mechanic problem.

I think you have forgotten how broken TFing was.

Saying that however what we now have is just sad & very hard to use.which is a shame.

Yes Tfing is was broken before (not as grim as you put it, but it would have been workable) with a few tweaks, some tools it would have more plausible to siege a gamma, it certainly would have been interesting. Why anyone cared to siege with all the grid involved when you can have your own gamma next door? So there was also an issue with incentive.

The change was a great example how to throw out the baby with the bathwater and remove one of the key features I and many others liked.

Enjoy gamma 2.0 on rails.

Edit: On the Eve subject maybe you forget there is local chat were you can just safe up, and buffer Sov systems made specifically to deter attacks due to the huge grind involved. Does that not ring a bell on what was happening here?. If you know what you are doing Eve Null is 99% safe.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

in regards to gamma and terraforming with the changes made you could have left terraforming how it was and everyone involved in the feedback session that created the new mechanics agreed ... apart from the devs. They just hated vertical walls.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Jita wrote:

in regards to gamma and terraforming with the changes made you could have left terraforming how it was and everyone involved in the feedback session that created the new mechanics agreed ... apart from the devs. They just hated vertical walls.

+12561231230230023023015611230231510560565050561561561

If you had just put erosion in and left the rest it would have been GREAT.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Phantomburn wrote:
Jita wrote:

in regards to gamma and terraforming with the changes made you could have left terraforming how it was and everyone involved in the feedback session that created the new mechanics agreed ... apart from the devs. They just hated vertical walls.

+12561231230230023023015611230231510560565050561561561

If you had just put erosion in and left the rest it would have been GREAT.

yes and no

erosion + a polygon stretch limit would have been enough for a gradual revamp of the system.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Why is Obi the sane one here?

This is worse then the rose tinted glasses of intrusions.

Go ahead and try and make a argument that doesn't include gamma killing the game.

I am Perpetuum.

18 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-03-07 02:12:11)

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Heres the thing. These DEVs have always failed when it comes to game balance. Why? They always have tended to make LARGE changes to the game instead of small tweaks to game mechanics over a number of weeks until the right equilibrium has been hit.

First off. Terra Forming. As it is now is sadly under powered / horrible to use. what would have been nice to see was some tweaking of those mechanics over a little bit of time to something was is enjoyable to use but not game breaking. I think where TFing is now is actually a good place to start. its under powered & its always better to Buff a mechanic rather than nerf it. Players like getting a buff smile

Second. Bots / Mech Balance.   AGAIN the DEVs went for MASSIVE changes not small focused balancing. During one of our podcasts gremrod & I talked about a few bots we thought were underused & that could do with some love.
Taking a small number of bots or a class of bots like say light bots & buffing / balancing it the best way to go. It lets you make some changes & see how they effect game play & if you happy move onto the next class or group.

What we have now has just reintroduced new problems & imbalances that could have been avoided if they were smart.

Hate to say it but CCP has nailed this approach really well & its a good lesson for any DEVs to take note of.


Perhaps the only they they got Kinda right was the PBS rework. I think they is P nice. tho it seems the energy wells need more attention & HWYs are broken as hell & useless.  neutral

An all or nothing approach will tend to annoy your players base more than make it happy.

And we wont see anything done to fix any of the above now due to the DEVs attention on PVE (which lets be honest is needed really badly) but i fear this to probably will be a let down with the same old boring style of game play. I hope they have more planned than just a mission revamp & that they actually introduce more open world & Group PVE content

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

We should go back to CIR bashing, that usually makes everyone feel better about themselves.

I am Perpetuum.

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

More open world content...

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Heres the thing. These DEVs have always failed when it comes to game balance. Why? They always have tended to make LARGE changes to the game instead of small tweaks to game mechanics over a number of weeks until the right equilibrium has been hit.


Amen. 
DEVs take notice. Smaller movement on balancing (or any update). 1. it provides the fascade that you are doing continual work on the game (vs no updates for months) and 2. it gives the players time to adjust to smaller changes (google 'putting the  frog in a pot of boiling water') and 3. You can see if the small tweek moves you in the direction you wanted.

22 (edited by Celebro 2015-03-09 22:59:43)

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Heres the thing. These DEVs have always failed when it comes to game balance. Why? They always have tended to make LARGE changes to the game instead of small tweaks to game mechanics over a number of weeks until the right equilibrium has been hit.

First off. Terra Forming. As it is now is sadly under powered / horrible to use. what would have been nice to see was some tweaking of those mechanics over a little bit of time to something was is enjoyable to use but not game breaking. I think where TFing is now is actually a good place to start. its under powered & its always better to Buff a mechanic rather than nerf it. Players like getting a buff smile

Second. Bots / Mech Balance.   AGAIN the DEVs went for MASSIVE changes not small focused balancing. During one of our podcasts gremrod & I talked about a few bots we thought were underused & that could do with some love.
Taking a small number of bots or a class of bots like say light bots & buffing / balancing it the best way to go. It lets you make some changes & see how they effect game play & if you happy move onto the next class or group.

What we have now has just reintroduced new problems & imbalances that could have been avoided if they were smart.

Hate to say it but CCP has nailed this approach really well & its a good lesson for any DEVs to take note of.


Perhaps the only they they got Kinda right was the PBS rework. I think they is P nice. tho it seems the energy wells need more attention & HWYs are broken as hell & useless.  neutral

An all or nothing approach will tend to annoy your players base more than make it happy.

And we wont see anything done to fix any of the above now due to the DEVs attention on PVE (which lets be honest is needed really badly) but i fear this to probably will be a let down with the same old boring style of game play. I hope they have more planned than just a mission revamp & that they actually introduce more open world & Group PVE content

Good post +1

Edit: I'll make an effort in ignoring people hiding behind alts.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

...You know. I missed it too. But to be more precise, i missed the abilities that ga - not mechanic. There was too good terraforming and too weak PBS. No PBS walls, no another good worked infrastructure.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

The gem of the old terraforming was the creativity it had. The problem was no rules. Who doesn't want the ability to build their own base in their own style? There were some fantastic creations in Gamma 1.0 that allowed for different styles (UltraMarine, Come at me Bro) some worked and some didn't. Instead of creating rules that prevented the largest complaints; walling off islands and 1km high vertical walls, the Devs threw the entire system out and neutered everything with a much more cumbersome and limited system, with the predicted bland results.

What a waste of something that set this game apart from others.

25 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2015-03-15 22:51:27)

Re: I miss old terraforming mechanic.

Celebro wrote:
Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Heres the thing. These DEVs have always failed when it comes to game balance. Why? They always have tended to make LARGE changes to the game instead of small tweaks to game mechanics over a number of weeks until the right equilibrium has been hit.

First off. Terra Forming. As it is now is sadly under powered / horrible to use. what would have been nice to see was some tweaking of those mechanics over a little bit of time to something was is enjoyable to use but not game breaking. I think where TFing is now is actually a good place to start. its under powered & its always better to Buff a mechanic rather than nerf it. Players like getting a buff smile

Second. Bots / Mech Balance.   AGAIN the DEVs went for MASSIVE changes not small focused balancing. During one of our podcasts gremrod & I talked about a few bots we thought were underused & that could do with some love.
Taking a small number of bots or a class of bots like say light bots & buffing / balancing it the best way to go. It lets you make some changes & see how they effect game play & if you happy move onto the next class or group.

What we have now has just reintroduced new problems & imbalances that could have been avoided if they were smart.

Hate to say it but CCP has nailed this approach really well & its a good lesson for any DEVs to take note of.


Perhaps the only they they got Kinda right was the PBS rework. I think they is P nice. tho it seems the energy wells need more attention & HWYs are broken as hell & useless.  neutral

An all or nothing approach will tend to annoy your players base more than make it happy.

And we wont see anything done to fix any of the above now due to the DEVs attention on PVE (which lets be honest is needed really badly) but i fear this to probably will be a let down with the same old boring style of game play. I hope they have more planned than just a mission revamp & that they actually introduce more open world & Group PVE content

Good post +1

Edit: I'll make an effort in ignoring people hiding behind alts.

You got me, im a ville alt sad

Cassius wrote:

The gem of the old terraforming was the creativity it had. The problem was no rules. Who doesn't want the ability to build their own base in their own style? There were some fantastic creations in Gamma 1.0 that allowed for different styles (UltraMarine, Come at me Bro) some worked and some didn't. Instead of creating rules that prevented the largest complaints; walling off islands and 1km high vertical walls, the Devs threw the entire system out and neutered everything with a much more cumbersome and limited system, with the predicted bland results.

What a waste of something that set this game apart from others.

I have to agree with Cassius. But i hated how BS & OP it could be at the same time. Sad to see the baby being thrown out with the bath water.

RIP beacon terraforming

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue