Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Rasnath wrote:

The idea of retreat is decent, but its being ABUSED by gate camping. By raising movement speed of the bots, a lot of people can run a click away from tp and get back to it (undemobbable arbalests, anyone?). It would be a lot less worse to lose an occasional bot for haulers than to lose pvp alltogether. But you should know that by keeping this mechanic, there is practically no more decent pvp. Now because jita and all vets have all pve mats in the game they'd ever want (make a T5 ffs!), the only thing left to do is pvp. And by allowing this to continue, you're going to kill pvp in the game. Now a game where you've accomplished pve and dont have pvp, you're gonna lose customers. And i freaking spent 300+ euros on this game. But that's gonna stop if i get bored because of broken mechanics.

Ahhhh you're starting to get bored (and probably more NSE guys)? Who would have guessed big_smile?!

It sure as hell has nothing to do with:
- running a dozen clients
- NSE activity on non-Pelistal islands is close to zero
- NSE blue napping 3/4 of playerbase
- NSE trying to bring max. amount of bots to every fight.

Of course it DOES have to do with:
- jumping mechanics from beta to alpha.

And your proposed solution to "your" problem is: increased ganking possibilities ... in a game, where ganking is already pretty strong.

And btw., naming explicitly Jita as one of the filthy rich vets in context with an unreachable race for wealth for younger players is ... a clumsy attempt at propaganda.
Jita was one of the very few vets, who openly requested/supported the idea of a server reset timed for STEAM launch. Your overlords on the other side...

@Dev Zoom
While the current beta-alpha jumping isn't perfect, it's ok on a large scale. This game has other - much more urgent - issues, which needs to be addressed asap (like 30% demob resistance on Arbalests).

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

TBH: I liked to kill Ville under TMB, walk to FB3, wait until everyone flag on me and jump to other side. Yes, there was impossible jump even to other beta when flag is up. It's removed, but i can't see a problem here.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Error wrote:
Rasnath wrote:

The idea of retreat is decent, but its being ABUSED by gate camping. By raising movement speed of the bots, a lot of people can run a click away from tp and get back to it (undemobbable arbalests, anyone?). It would be a lot less worse to lose an occasional bot for haulers than to lose pvp alltogether. But you should know that by keeping this mechanic, there is practically no more decent pvp. Now because jita and all vets have all pve mats in the game they'd ever want (make a T5 ffs!), the only thing left to do is pvp. And by allowing this to continue, you're going to kill pvp in the game. Now a game where you've accomplished pve and dont have pvp, you're gonna lose customers. And i freaking spent 300+ euros on this game. But that's gonna stop if i get bored because of broken mechanics.

Ahhhh you're starting to get bored (and probably more NSE guys)? Who would have guessed big_smile?!

It sure as hell has nothing to do with:
- running a dozen clients
- NSE activity on non-Pelistal islands is close to zero
- NSE blue napping 3/4 of playerbase
- NSE trying to bring max. amount of bots to every fight.

Of course it DOES have to do with:
- jumping mechanics from beta to alpha.

And your proposed solution to "your" problem is: increased ganking possibilities ... in a game, where ganking is already pretty strong.

And btw., naming explicitly Jita as one of the filthy rich vets in context with an unreachable race for wealth for younger players is ... a clumsy attempt at propaganda.
Jita was one of the very few vets, who openly requested/supported the idea of a server reset timed for STEAM launch. Your overlords on the other side...

@Dev Zoom
While the current beta-alpha jumping isn't perfect, it's ok on a large scale. This game has other - much more urgent - issues, which needs to be addressed asap (like 58% demob resistance on Arbalests).

QFT

Reading this signature fills you with determination.

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Solution.

If Demobed.  No Jumpy Jumpy.

I am Perpetuum.

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Perpetuum wrote:

Solution.

If Demobed.  No Jumpy Jumpy.

Sounds like something that could be broken and exploited. :s

Reading this signature fills you with determination.

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

HOW THE *** COULD THAT BE EXPLOITED OTHER THEN BEING USED TO KILL ***.

THE POINT IS FOR IT TO BE EXPLOITED, HENCE TO BE *** USED.

I am Perpetuum.

32 (edited by Goffer 2015-01-05 10:09:06)

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

DEV Zoom wrote:
Kayin Prime wrote:

Then it seems like a more consistent step would be to force a PvP flag after you come back from beta whether you engaged in PvP or not.

That's an interesting idea, but would it matter?

Yes, it would bring a real lot of PV^Wganking at the alpha side of teleports leading to beta.
And this would affect some mineral prices enormously.

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

somewhere up there someone made it sound like you couldn't jump back to beta with a pvp flag.
Thats not true. The thing that prevents you from jumping back, is an extenden instability if you jump with a pvp flag
(a feature requested by elite PvPer that know how to play the game)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

"To flag in beta you have to demonstrate your willingness to PvP"
Actually, just by being on Beta, you show willingness to PvP.
You don't have to be flagged to be shot at.

" I didn't understand why we're allowed to jump when flagged."
You can jump when flagged because you stay flagged.
The only restrictions are on using mobile TP and extended instability (to reduce gate jump games).
Go ahead, chase them down and kill them.


If they are not flagged and jump out, good job on their part on escaping.
You need to kill them (catch them far enough away from the TP) before they jump.
It is already possible to kill people that jump onto beta in the time between syndicate ending and instability dropping.
(As several people in your alliance with Mk2 heavies have shown.... repeatedly)

What's the problem ? Everyone knows how it works and the same rules apply to everyone.

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

btw, if there is a "serious" pvp flag issue,
then its NEXUS buffs from non-pvp flagged agents are beeing applied to PvP flagged ones.
(unlike other remote support stuff that flags).

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Annihilator wrote:

btw, if there is a "serious" pvp flag issue,
then its NEXUS buffs from non-pvp flagged agents are beeing applied to PvP flagged ones.
(unlike other remote support stuff that flags).

Good point. I had not considered this, it seems only fair that if a support bot (remote rep/energy transfer) flags when supporting combats, then bots running NEXUS that support flagged combats, should get flagged as well.

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Blocker wrote:

Good point. I had not considered this, it seems only fair that if a support bot (remote rep/energy transfer) flags when supporting combats, then bots running NEXUS that support flagged combats, should get flagged as well.

there was a reason i did not write it the way you did.

a single nexus can cover an area of 800m diameter. Getting PvP flagged just because someone with PvP flag ran into the zone would be to harsh, because you would need to stop the support for all other non-flagged ones just to get rid of your flag.

the way i wrote it would be a softer nerf that requires active timing of nexus agent.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

38 (edited by Race Drones 2015-01-05 16:49:58)

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Kayin Prime wrote:

... slow boat it to the teleport in your quad plate demob-immune heavy,  jump through, and tank all damage until your flag's up. ...

Mechanic is NOT the problem, the last ""REBALANCE"" patch IS.

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.
The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.
All is in "The Matrix".
See Beyond the Obvious.

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Blocker wrote:

...Why can't you jump back to beta if flagged ?...If you can jump flagged from beta to alpha, you should be able to jump flagged from alpha to beta.

Perp FATIGUE.

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.
The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.
All is in "The Matrix".
See Beyond the Obvious.

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Error wrote:

- NSE blue napping 3/4 of playerbase

Wrong!, NSE are 3/4 of playerbase!.

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.
The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.
All is in "The Matrix".
See Beyond the Obvious.

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

As I said no need imo.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

New mod time teleport jammer works like a demob but just prevents a robot flagged or not from using a tp. Is considered a hostile act there fore only useable on beta and gamma has a 20 sec cycle with a 15 sec cooldown or off cycle 300m range @ t4 level.
Eve has webs scrams and points. Why dont we.

Anonymous: lobo is the only hero left in this god foresaken game / :also, Lobo is god among men
http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=agent-his … mp;month=7 Best month 104 to 1 k/d

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

I don't see a problem here.  The developers have made it very clear with their mechanics that hell camping of a station or gate is fine:

1.  Just look to the protection versus stability timer.  We've seen people get killed before they even loaded on terrain, sad

2. 20% ewar strength nerf.

So the only way to take and clear out a hell camp is by getting more dudes in heavys and out blob them.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

44 (edited by Perpetuum 2015-01-05 19:18:42)

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Lobo wrote:

New mod time teleport jammer works like a demob but just prevents a robot flagged or not from using a tp. Is considered a hostile act there fore only useable on beta and gamma has a 20 sec cycle with a 15 sec cooldown or off cycle 300m range @ t4 level.
Eve has webs scrams and points. Why dont we.

Hook, Line, and sinker.

I knew I could get this terrible Idea out of ya.

Ok, ok maybe not "you" persay but someone, perchance.

Eve does have Demobs, yet nothing, but those do not keep said flying bot from jumping through a gate.  Only a 30 Second aggression time can, and does.  For well 30 Seconds, until you, you know, de-agress.

Trollo

Edit:  Please move this to Features and Ideas Thanks!

I am Perpetuum.

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Phantomburn wrote:

So the only way to take and clear out a hell camp is by getting more dudes in heavys and out blob them.

Specifically, Yellow Heavys with a lot of plates.

Like World of Warcraft flavour, but in perp (WoP).

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.
The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.
All is in "The Matrix".
See Beyond the Obvious.

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

I don't understand why the current mechanic is a problem. If your flagged there is already a hefty penalty with stability timers. What about the mechanic don't you like?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Jita wrote:

I don't understand why the current mechanic is a problem. If your flagged there is already a hefty penalty with stability timers. What about the mechanic don't you like?

My guess is with current lag situation is there's a hefty tax on players with ISPs that have had lag issues.  And jumping through gates can cause significant load times, ~15 to 20 seconds which equals enough time for a tanked heavy to get away.

And since the last patch killed tackling in this game, AND since dps was nerfed... 

The only bots that can catch it can't dps it enough.

I think once the lags fixed this issue will go away.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

The problem is the terrible patch not jump mechanics.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

Jita wrote:

The problem is the terrible patch not jump mechanics.


Agreed.

Race Drones wrote:

Mechanic is NOT the problem, the last ""REBALANCE"" patch IS.

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.
The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.
All is in "The Matrix".
See Beyond the Obvious.

50 (edited by Kayin Prime 2015-01-05 22:38:59)

Re: Jumping to Alpha when Flagged - Serious discussion

- You are NOT committing to PvP by jumping to Beta alone. You have to get a few thousand meters off the TP before you're committing anything.

- You can go from 100% certain death to 100% safety via the click of a button and then reengage 30 seconds later when circumstances are in your favor.

- Attackers will constantly refresh PvP flag whereas defenders will not.  The game mechanics favor running away rather than fighting.   

These are the problems with the current jump mechanics.  These were not created by the patch.  The patch only makes them worse.

-K