1 (edited by Kayin Prime 2014-11-15 07:05:06)

Topic: Patch demotivating to new players :(

The patch has seemed to demotivate a lot of newer players.   Several of them have logged in, found they weren't able to drive their mk2 bots anymore, and won't have the EP for the pre-req exts AND the high tech ext for a few days. They subsequently have just stopped playing now that they're forced to take a step backwards when they already felt behind in the first place. Mk2s are not cheap for new players both in terms of EP and NIC.

Basically my corp has been cut by 1/4 or so.  The more dedicated group is still playing but is discouraged by the increase in harvest/mining grind. Our most dedicated miner ran the numbers and found he won't be able to achieve his previous mining 'ability?' for several months due to prioritization of other needed new player skills. 

I'm hoping this is a temporary shock reaction and they'll be back.  It's a dangerous game to play though. Taking people's progress away from them is not a very good idea especially in a game where that progress relies on such heavy grind.  To make it worse, you did it to people who are still undecided on the game.

-2 points guys sad

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

That is your problem.

You guys can barely tie your shoes.

We *** about it, but us and our 38 stations are still here.



All of you people are about 2% to where you need to be to win a game like this.

and I am not talking about EP

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Balance patch always come with somebody who dont like it.

Pls. try to adapt and wait a bit, this is not that bad you think.

Energy to Earth!

18.01.2014. [12:57:58] <BeastmodeGuNs> after that i remembered all those warning about 1v1 you lol, and i found out why xD

4 (edited by Annihilator 2014-11-15 11:44:30)

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Kayin Prime wrote:

The patch has seemed to demotivate a lot of newer players.   Several of them have logged in, found they weren't able to drive their mk2 bots anymore, and won't have the EP for the pre-req exts AND the high tech ext for a few days. They subsequently have just stopped playing now that they're forced to take a step backwards when they already felt behind in the first place. Mk2s are not cheap for new players both in terms of EP and NIC.

I am actually shocked that you guys are in endgame robots without having:
lvl5 Data processing
lvl5 Reactor expansion 
lvl5 Accumulator expansion
lvl5 Energy Management
lvl5 Mechanics

and then don't have 480 EP left to skill one level in hi-tech spec.
i am actually curious which one of the prerequisites youre guys didn't meet, because except the last one, all of them are pretty much what i would expect a player to have after character creation and running missions with an assault.

it totally sounds made up, since i don't know many noobs that run around in mk2s before having basic skills lvl5+

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Mk2 are not requird to plya s a newbie. Using that as an excuse not to play isn't very convincing. As a new player you either would need to be able to keep the Mk2 alive while stil using it or afford to replace it. As a new player neither of those tend to be true. While I usually like seeing ortohogonality as much as possible here the requirements corretly guide to first resort to the more appropriate affordable methods. Giving false hopet that you could somehow afofrdably run Mk2s without a porper EP support would be a misservice tothe players.

It woul dbe cool if Mk2 were a differtn path rather than a a superiro path to robot piloting. HOwever I do not think that requiring only the linear portion of the basic fitting skills ruins it's role of being the NIC heavy option. It's still NIC inefficient enough that it shouldn't worry about it as enew player.

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Dumbing down the game is good for wow, but you know what? The magic formula that attracts gazillions of casuals doesnt work on this kind of game.

Feels like perpetuum shot his own foot and ignored all the blood cause... well blood doesnt know *** about how you should treat your body.

Cant confirm this patch is demotivating for all newbs, it is for most of us.

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

I know that newbs have a very backwards understadnign of a lot of mechanics. I know this because I run contarary to them and make millions of NIC with it. What players want is not always what the players will need. This patch improved the impact newbies actions have but  in the same time required them to actually do actions and not just passively recieve a benefit. The EP gap migth seem like it worsened because the veterans could tank the new EP requirements. But this means actually that their future ability to tank such changes is lessened. Saying that the veteran EP should be damned up in not having any extensions to use it on would be artifical and move the game to a unhealthy direction. You can't hodl the EP useage model hostage and slave to the current amount of EP people have.

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

202,500 EP down the drain, ~60k left. smile

Still more satisfying then flushing 10$ down the drain. lol

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Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

I spent $20..  I feel cheated and beat down, not to post on mmorpg.com.

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Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Hi Ville.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

I'm so suppressed right now.

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Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

I'm talking about Mk2 Assaults:   baphs,  wasps,  arbs.   Not mk2 mechs or heavies.   Mk2 assaults are very reasonable for new players to get into or at least aspire to. It's expensive for them but certainly reasonable and they DO help with early game PVE.   I don't consider them end game by any means.

Annihilator wrote:
Kayin Prime wrote:

The patch has seemed to demotivate a lot of newer players.   Several of them have logged in, found they weren't able to drive their mk2 bots anymore, and won't have the EP for the pre-req exts AND the high tech ext for a few days. They subsequently have just stopped playing now that they're forced to take a step backwards when they already felt behind in the first place. Mk2s are not cheap for new players both in terms of EP and NIC.

I am actually shocked that you guys are in endgame robots without having:
lvl5 Data processing
lvl5 Reactor expansion 
lvl5 Accumulator expansion
lvl5 Energy Management
lvl5 Mechanics

and then don't have 480 EP left to skill one level in hi-tech spec.
i am actually curious which one of the prerequisites youre guys didn't meet, because except the last one, all of them are pretty much what i would expect a player to have after character creation and running missions with an assault.

it totally sounds made up, since i don't know many noobs that run around in mk2s before having basic skills lvl5+

I had almost this exact conversation in corp chat last night.   How the hell do you guys not have lvl 5 in the prereqs at least?  How are you able to fit the robot? 

Most are fitting their mk2 assaults with machine gun / missile fits and haven't prioritized extensions for accumulator.  Again this is for low level PVE.    Apparently it's just what happened.

I was *really* surprised by the response the new players had to the patch. So surprised that I wanted to be sure the devs heard it was happening.  That was my reasoning for the post.  The patch is actually meaningless for me personally. It didn't really effect me much.

-K

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Rolafen Azec wrote:

I know that newbs have a very backwards understadnign of a lot of mechanics. I know this because I run contarary to them and make millions of NIC with it. What players want is not always what the players will need. This patch improved the impact newbies actions have but  in the same time required them to actually do actions and not just passively recieve a benefit. The EP gap migth seem like it worsened because the veterans could tank the new EP requirements. But this means actually that their future ability to tank such changes is lessened. Saying that the veteran EP should be damned up in not having any extensions to use it on would be artifical and move the game to a unhealthy direction. You can't hodl the EP useage model hostage and slave to the current amount of EP people have.

Why do you think only noobs are affected ?  I'm not a noob at all.  But I came back to the game thinking I'll have a rather large pool of points to spend, and oh, oops, I don't.  I MUST spend them to get skills/functionality I had before, let alone use my MK2 bots.  Now I am faced with another 4 to  6 months to start devoting points to what I wanted to do today. And not just for combat, but for my indy bots too.  The double whammy.  Good job dev team !

I'm sorry, and  say this without emotion or anger :: this game is no longer worth my time, as in "why bother".  I'll happily find something else to do where I can feel my invested time has an actual long term payout.  You really want to make it "even" for noobs?  Wipe the server so everybody starts from scratch.  Or, have seasons like in Diablo III, where you as assured that everyone starts in the same impoverished state, with separation occurring via knowledge of the game.

Oh wait, the goal is to help noobs.  So here is notice to all noobs :: it'll now take you twice as long to get into MK2s, except the Arkhe.  This is because harvesting skills are nerfed via new extensions so you will make less cash.  With the added benefit for noobs of heaps of newly required ext's.  ROFLMAO !!! The noobs are SO MUCH better off now.

I'd just like to know how/why the dev team got motivated to do something so utterly stupid for an MMORPG sandbox game.

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Seasons would be cool. New server every two years.

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

At the point were you don't give enough to boot the game once in 3 days or pay in advance to have proper EP pot cooking I fail to see how you should have EP to play around with. Failing to give a d in 3 day is hardly investment. And even if you were to have the you should be USING them to something instead of being happy to sit in a little picker pile of NIC. It's a game not a screensaver.

There are plenty of positive expected NIC outcome activities yet most people think it's the devs job to keep those that are risk challenged afloat in the economy. To keep a man alive you teach him how to fish, not spoonfeed him to his 30s.

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Inda wrote:

Balance patch always come with somebody who dont like it.

Pls. try to adapt and wait a bit, this is not that bad you think.

can you explain to me why noobs have to grind even longer on a already long grind to get anywhere in the game? how is that not bad? we went from a hill to leap over to an actual eve online cliff. the only way to adapt is to.... buy more accounts? thats not increasing the player base, thats just adapting to a problem.

17 (edited by Stranger Danger 2014-11-16 02:26:09)

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

This patch buffed noobs.

Your beloved assaults can now contend with heavies.

The vets got screwed, specifically ictus pilots and some green bots.


I love all the QQ's more than anyone here but the noobs should be dancing in the street right now, all your assaults are now badass.

The noobs are crying about new skills, however the new skills only require a 400-ish EP investment to use any bot, even the mk2, even the mk2 heavies, and all those skills do is stack on bonuses that were not present before. 

Its win win for lower EP accounts.  Vets it doesn't matter for a lot of them, they have multiple roles decked out.

The people who got hurt by this were people who were specialized in one role that got nerfed into the ground.

But hey, last time there was a major balance change that saw lots of bots become useless there wasn't even an option to respect EP.  Its not even as damaging to players as the follow bot nerf that saw anyone with support bots get a major nerf, and people who relied on multiple support bots couldn't use them as before, rendering lots of their accounts 100% useless.

Give it some time an im sure some balance will seep out there....it sucks seeing what was the only use for certain bots be taken away...but to be honest, for the newer players, getting those assault buffs more than makes up for it.


This is the same problem the new players have with pvp.  Just because the vets are upset doesn't mean you should.  Just like how the whiney vets all cried about having to destroy us saw you all jump on that bandwagon.  The whiney vets should be avoided and left alone.

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Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Stranger Danger wrote:

The whiney vets should be avoided and left alone.

You mean all the whiney vets in this thread ?
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … atchnotes/

lol

19 (edited by Stranger Danger 2014-11-16 04:51:24)

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Blocker wrote:
Stranger Danger wrote:

The whiney vets should be avoided and left alone.

You mean all the whiney vets in this thread ?
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … atchnotes/

lol


Yes.

You should always avoid eye contact with Weedy and Syndic.  They are savage beasts.

Stranger Danger / Capital Punishment / Cyberdown
Pillar of the Community
Ruler of Recruit Chat
CIR Ministry of Truth

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Thus speaketh the pillar of the community.

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

I agree with players that have played a long time and should be grandfathered in some of the basics when skills like this are added.

For example, when I played eve online I was a destroyer specialist and was working on destroyers 5 before the skill went from being universal for all 4 races to having gallente dessie, minni dessie, etc. I loved destroyers and since I already had the skill to 5 when the skill was split I was allowed to mirror the level to all the factions so all faction dessie were 5. people that had lvl 4 had all to 4.

its not too big of a difference to to just grandfather the ability to drive certain bots into the game. one level isnt a big deal on ep for noobs and definitely not for vets. Its the principle of being able to drive bots regardless of nerf/buff. Progression gets newbs and vets into bots at some point but that should never ever be taken away regardless of what it costs to fix it.

Fix it zoom and refund 400 ep for everyone who already spent NIC  and ep on it.

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Gwyndor wrote:

For example, when I played eve online I was a destroyer specialist and was working on destroyers 5 before the skill went from being universal for all 4 races to having gallente dessie, minni dessie, etc. I loved destroyers and since I already had the skill to 5 when the skill was split I was allowed to mirror the level to all the factions so all faction dessie were 5. people that had lvl 4 had all to 4.

I think that is overtly generous. You should have only be allowed to choose which skill you wanted to preserve. I fyou want to have EP be timeslved you can't have too much events where you suddenly quadruple some portion of your EP.

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Gwyndor wrote:

For example, when I played eve online I was a destroyer specialist and was working on destroyers 5 before the skill went from being universal for all 4 races to having gallente dessie, minni dessie, etc. I loved destroyers and since I already had the skill to 5 when the skill was split I was allowed to mirror the level to all the factions so all faction dessie were 5. people that had lvl 4 had all to 4.

It should be noted that eve did this after giving people a good six weeks to two months notice. This allowed you to train the skill before it was changed and so not impact you.

That's the big problem with this patch, they never asked what we might like, it was never published what was changing and they didn't listen to feedback. I don't know why it even went to the test server.

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Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

How exactly do you measure "listening to feedback"?

Re: Patch demotivating to new players :(

Silly carebears, the prob with this patch its we newbs shouldnt be on par with veterans, and buffing assaults to the point they look like mechs its bad design, where is the incentive to train for a kain when my arbalest can do just as good and cheaper?

Newb bears dont care about pvp and their farming potential got nerfed heavily. PvP noobs dont care about being weak for a while, so why rebalance what isnt broke?

Devs, you just achieved the very opposite thing you wanted with this patch.