1 (edited by Rex Amelius 2014-10-06 21:32:16)

Topic: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Break the Monopoly - Well at least crack it.
1.) Remove Sparks from Beta
2.) Add simple 2-3 second clicky-type activity for Point Accumulation on Successful SAP Defense.

Reignite Small Gang Activity - Sneaky Sneak Hit n Run
3.) Eliminate Detection Module
4.) Buff Assault Base Masking
5.) Eliminate Armor Mobile TP
6.) Buff Masking on remaining Mobile TP
7.) Nerf Probe Masking & Prohibit placement within 1000 of TPs
8.) Increase Interference over time on ANY bot sitting under TPs

Note these are all very quick changes (except #8 - likely complicated). Revamping entire Intrusion system, creating more islands, and creating/balancing incentives are all more involved topics that will take a long time to develop. So please keep the focus, if possible.

Inspired mostly by Gremrod's recent posting.

Sparking to other games

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Rex Amelius wrote:

Break the Monopoly - Well at least crack it.
1.) Remove Sparks from Beta
2.) Add simple 2-3 second clicky-type activity for Point Accumulation on Successful SAP Defense.


Actually, I like most of the comments in your Sig..

1 Spark in each Alpha, Beta (corp owned only), Gamma

that sounds reasonable, although with the new spread of the Islands (interzone nerf) , I'd make it 1 alpha 2 sparc and give the 3 alpha 1 sparcs as a freebie for the new players.
also I wouldn't go so far as to say corp owned only, if you can dock there you should be able to sparc there.

There are 6 beta islands, 18 terminals (3 public, 15 contested)
1 sparc for beta does not sound like it provides an unreasonable advantage.

To help the monopoly situation make it so you have to actively live there,
Make it so that the saps HAVE to be taken and remove the automatic stability gain for un taken saps.

Owner takes sap, stability goes up
Attacker takes sap stability goes down.
No-one takes sap, stability goes down (probably have an owner bonus of reduced point loss here).

With only 1 sparc over 6 islands/15 contested terminals and no automatic stability gain, it should be much harder to own stations you are not actively living in.

/fireproof suit on

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Yesterday i saw a SAP beeing "defended" by an of NPC Zerg. I wonder if they could also take SAPs tongue

i wonder for what you need alpha sparks.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

4 (edited by Burial 2014-10-04 10:58:03)

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Rex Amelius wrote:

Break the Monopoly - Well at least crack it.
1.) Remove Sparks from Beta
2.) Add simple 2-3 second clicky-type activity for Point Accumulation on Successful SAP Defense.

Reignite Small Gang Activity - Sneaky Sneak Hit n Run
3.) Eliminate Detection Module
4.) Buff Assault Base Masking
5.) Eliminate Armor Mobile TP
6.) Buff Masking on remaining Mobile TP
7.) Nerf Probe Masking & Prohibit placement within 1000 of TPs
8.) Increase Interference over time on ANY bot sitting under TPs

Note these are all very quick changes (except #8 - likely complicated). Revamping entire Intrusion system, creating more islands, and creating/balancing incentives are all more involved topics that will take a long time to develop. So please keep the focus, if possible.

Inspired mostly by Gremrod's recent posting.

1. Agreed. Also, more enters-exits to Betas.
2. Agreed.
3. I agree that something further still needs to be done.
7. Agreed.
8. You want to hit gate scouting and I agree something needs to be done. I'm not sure if that's the best option.

Good post btw.

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

8) should be relatively easy to do - suggested that already some time ago, with Intrusion 2.0.

the "passive hacking" SAP already counts how long individual agents are standing i a certain location. adding a debuff based on that number should be not something complicated to implement.
They also have already experience now in sending such status data between instances (aka if someone jumps between two islands, the accumulated iterference needs to carry over and decrease over time)

but to make this work, they would also need to add a masking bonus to molecular instability or else the scouts would just stay next to the teleport outside the interference-zone and still see everyone comming through.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

I'd be fine with scouts sitting outside of the interference range but still within range to see people coming in... The whole point is to keep people from being in perfect safety by scouting alpha/beta teles. I also think jumping between alpha and beta should have a longer destabilty timer like if they were aggressing while jumping. Jumping on to a beta should never be 100% safe.

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

How bout allowing the ability to jump through tp's when flagged again? Would go a long way in allowing smaller units the ability to roam...

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Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Shadowmine wrote:

How bout allowing the ability to jump through tp's when flagged again? Would go a long way in allowing smaller units the ability to roam...

Nah. With a speed buff and masking buff would be IMPOSSIBLE to catch. There has to be some sport still. I did recommend to at least reduce that 4k tp visual range.

Sparking to other games

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

btw, the interference mehtod is an already succesfully tested one: Arkhe's once got that nice interference based nerf.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Annihilator wrote:

btw, the interference mehtod is an already succesfully tested one: Arkhe's once got that nice interference based nerf.

But thats when they are around any thing bot tp terminal, so funny you see a masked bot then you get maxed interference it vanishes then you see it again.

This was one of the Nerfs that they went alittle to far with.

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Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

I like your ideas Rex, but in all honesty the only thing that is really going to ignite small gang activity is small gangs, and the only way you're going to get small gangs is if you reset cir/phm. Other small gangs might decide to start roaming then.

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

-1

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Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Armored TPs allowed small gangs to attack big ones and have a chance to escape. But it was nerfed, killing hit and run PvP.  Not sure why you think eliminating armoured TPs will help small gang PvP Rex.

Not a troll btw, I am curious your reasoning on this.

14 (edited by Rex Amelius 2014-10-06 21:14:45)

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Cassius wrote:

Armored TPs allowed small gangs to attack big ones and have a chance to escape. But it was nerfed, killing hit and run PvP.  Not sure why you think eliminating armoured TPs will help small gang PvP Rex.

Not a troll btw, I am curious your reasoning on this.

Speed is buffed. Requesting masking buff on assaults and TPs. Requesting elimination detection. Requesting elimination of Sparks on Beta so blob force can't so easily drop on your head. Basket is mostly full of what I believe can help smaller invasion forces. But I'm NOT looking to ELIMINATE the small invasion force RISK.

Armor TP is broken for pvp. Period. It's too easy to escape with, even with the new flag mechanic which just disincentivizes engagement. I'm looking for ACTIVE evasion buffs, not playing Patty Cake on a nearly invulnerable escape route.

Sparking to other games

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Armored tps gave players a 100% out.  Castel mk2s never died.

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Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

I guess I just never got that argument. If you see someone drop an armored, why didn't you just drop one of your own as soon as you see them drop it? Then you just follow them if they jump... Really not that hard of a concept...

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

17 (edited by Smokeyii 2014-10-07 22:32:12)

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Shadowmine wrote:

I guess I just never got that argument. If you see someone drop an armored, why didn't you just drop one of your own as soon as you see them drop it? Then you just follow them if they jump... Really not that hard of a concept...


Probably because if you're by yourself you've got like a 1 in 5 (or more on some islands) of actually picking the same teleport they jumped too unless you have probes and such, and if they hit an alpha portal, it's cya later even if you do pick the right teleport.

And if you're not by yourself you'll have to split your forces to jump after him/them.

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

I guess, but you can still do that exact thing if you are not flagged. So all you really did was discourage people from flagging up unless you KNOW it will be a competitive fight. While before there would be a chance of a kill or some pvp action, now the small gang never flags and goes home.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

19 (edited by Celebro 2014-10-07 23:30:19)

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Doesn't Eve give you multiple and far exceeding ways at running away, maybe that's why there is more players and pvp going on there. If you are smart enough and aware there should be choices to GTFO, and the predator need to use the heads to catch them.

PVP flag on armoured tp change was I think the reason STC went mostly inactive. Bad call IMO, but the whiners keep whining and call others whiners for trying to balance the game.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Celebro wrote:

Doesn't Eve give you multiple and far exceeding ways at running away, maybe that's why there is more players and pvp going on there. If you are smart enough and aware there should be choices to GTFO, and the predator need to use the heads to catch them.

PVP flag on armoured tp change was I think the reason STC went mostly inactive. Bad call IMO, but the whiners keep whining and call others whiners for trying to balance the game.

Hit&Run was never accepted as a valid tactic by Perp DEVs CEO's. Nothing else was removed as fast as any way to pvp flag and then escape.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Celebro wrote:

Doesn't Eve give you multiple and far exceeding ways at running away, maybe that's why there is more players and pvp going on there. If you are smart enough and aware there should be choices to GTFO, and the predator need to use the heads to catch them.

No, if you know what you are doing in Eve, your targets will not get away.

22 (edited by Cassius 2014-10-09 03:03:36)

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

As often mentioned the game is intended to have some risk v reward. ANY full loot drop pvp mmo will always show a large portion of the active player base is risk averse, I wouldn't expect to see a difference in how Perp was played. I agree that Armoured TPs were a pain in the *** for the defender, but their availability allowed for risk adverse players to have more incentive to set foot on beta without guaranteed death. EvE does this very well with full cloaking, bubbles, random wormholes.  The rewards of Null sec were more than enough incentive for me to run 8 bill isk worth of deadspace fitted ships to farm complexes and high value NPCs. For years. As a solo player.

the current set up of Perp does not allow much in the way of this type of ninja farming.


tl;dr Armoured encouraged more PvP opportunities than nerfing them prevented escape.
Also Rex, the other changes you mentioned are a step in the right direction for sure, but I havent played since the detector reworking, I dont know how the current mechanincs play or if they are effective.

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Nooodlzs wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Doesn't Eve give you multiple and far exceeding ways at running away, maybe that's why there is more players and pvp going on there. If you are smart enough and aware there should be choices to GTFO, and the predator need to use the heads to catch them.

No, if you know what you are doing in Eve, your targets will not get away.

I wished I still played EvE. Would love to show you what a clever mouse can do to escape the cat. I loved being hunted and pursued in that game, relentlessly.

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

Teleports and detectors make hitting and running impossible. Your only useful tactic is waiting out your PvP flag and,logging because anyone competent just sits on teleporters, engages with detectors and tackle and then jumps to where the battle is. Even in the small scale fights that happen now it's impossible, if there were a thousand people on an island it would be laughable.

Once again it's a problem derived by space. If there were a hundred more islands and / or islands were a hundred times bigger half of these balancing issues wouldn't exist. Because everything is so close it makes it imbalanced.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Beta - Break the Monopoly / Reignite Small Gang Activity

The new speed changes have improved the gameplay experience drastically. big_smile

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