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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Weedy wrote:

My PERSONAL opinion is that sparks in their current form are actually damaging the game, and 77CIR controlling the whole beta is the best example devs can have on their hands as to understand how EASY it can be for one organized entity to have such a huge impact (something that Gunner has been pointing out to you FOR AGES). It is not much about new corporations even, though it can have an effect if 77CIR decided it so (there are almost none new corps in the game atm anyway, nor the population to contest 77CIR utter dominance).


I can agree with that. As it is now, cir/phm/77 get to decide who has fun in the game and who doesn't by denying 2/3rds of the game world to anyone they choose to. If that's NOT something wrong with game mechaincs then what would be?

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

I've said before

Remove sparks tomorrow

No escape is good big_smile

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128 Reply by Cassius (edited by Cassius 2014-10-05 19:32:49)

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Weedy, huh?

I have the same position as before.

I'm not happy with the current SpT format, but its far better than eliminating it entirely.
I thought and still think the base problem with power projection is the entity controlling the game has 15 people while the opposition has 5. Therefore the opposition can't do ***. The overall game population is far too low for any game mechanics to work properly, therefore the value of force projection thru simple numerical superiority is quite magnified.

The mechanic of SpT does very little to multiply power projection,

THERE SIMPLY IS NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE PLAYING THE GAME TO ALLOW MECHANICS TO WORK PROPERLY.

Not sure where or what gave you the impression my position changes, now that (if I played) I am on the minority side.
Show me since you are good at quoting old forum posts.

In the end it doesn't matter. I don't play anyways.

129 Reply by Rex Amelius (edited by Rex Amelius 2014-10-05 20:17:27)

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Cassius wrote:

I'm not happy with the current SpT format, but its far better than eliminating it entirely.
I thought and still think the base problem with power projection is the entity controlling the game has 15 people while the opposition has 5. Therefore the opposition can't do ***. The overall game population is far too low for any game mechanics to work properly, therefore the value of force projection thru simple numerical superiority is quite magnified.

The mechanic of SpT does very little to multiply power projection,

THERE SIMPLY IS NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE PLAYING THE GAME TO ALLOW MECHANICS TO WORK PROPERLY.


Power Projection
POWER is the 15 guys ability to stomp 5 guys, or 150 guys stomp 50, or 1500 stomp 500 etc.
PROJECTION is more less the distance or logistics of how FAR that power can go in the game map. In perpetuum sparks allow ANY power regardless the size to be anywhere in minutes VERY EASILY ...FAR TOO EASILY.

Sparks don't multiply POWER. Sparks eliminate the distance restriction  power can dominate. The population is IRRELEVANT.

I want a game with regions or at least more restrictions on moving pvp forces so it become too much pain in the *** to bother. This way smaller less effective forces can still be a factor in there region, if not the whole server.

Game world is too small and needs more Islands. Sparks add insult to the small world injury.

No one power ever dominated the server territorial ownership before sparks.

Sparking to other games

130 Reply by Ville

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Rex Amelius wrote:

No one power ever dominated the server territorial ownership before sparks.

Umm..  Yeah they did.... three times actually.

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Ville wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

No one power ever dominated the server territorial ownership before sparks.

Umm..  Yeah they did.... three times actually.

Who, M2S pre - asset wipe when there were 6 islands in all of Nia. Please, history lesson, giveth.

Sparking to other games
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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Ville wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

No one power ever dominated the server territorial ownership before sparks.

Umm..  Yeah they did.... three times actually.


Yup and the tactic of those not in the power block has always been to not play and hope those in power get bored and leave, so they can return and be in power as they get the inactivity treatment.

Problem is people wont play unless victory is easy.  Right now the easiest thing to do when not on top is to stop playing and hope the other people get bored and leave.  Which im not sure is possible as a tactic now that the game is free, hopefully that sets in and people try to unseat with activity.

Power projection stops when there is more than one power block.  Maybe some on this thread and others should try logging into more than just the forums, get active, take players under their wing and actually try.

Last honest try ended in the leader having a mental breakdown due to a handful of losses, while others sit on years worth of farming in materials and nic afraid to lose a few bots out the stash of thousands...its sad.

Problem is the current playerbase, the vets.  They would rather have the devs solve in game politics than do it via game mechanics.

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133 Reply by Ville

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Rex Amelius wrote:
Ville wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

No one power ever dominated the server territorial ownership before sparks.

Umm..  Yeah they did.... three times actually.

Who, M2S pre - asset wipe when there were 6 islands in all of Nia. Please, history lesson, giveth.

RG/CIR/Chaos....

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Ville wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

No one power ever dominated the server territorial ownership before sparks.

Umm..  Yeah they did.... three times actually.


No, they didn't. You're utterly wrong.

@danger stranger - Let's take a step back and actually use our brains here instead of just spouting nonsense about "try-harder!" Okay? You remember just a short 6 months ago when there was all these vets returning and new people getting into it? Yeah? Well, they're all gone and YOUR CORP is to blame, like it or not. So what makes you think that JOKE at it's hay-day that could pull 20+ pilots in mech+ with an allied corp of 20+ noobs, and the Russians that could field 10+ and we couldn't win then, that we'll be able to pull something together now? With what? It's pretty much Jita, beastmode and I left. Suppose we can imagine up some new 1m+ EP vets and put them in bots?

The problem is the current playerbase, the vets. They would rather lord over an empty game with nothing to do and no one to fight, than take a risk to break up into smaller factions and fight. What else is there to do but ask the devs step in, when it's obvious you're not interested in taking any of the responsibility for the decline in the playerbase. Joke has owned up to it's failings, it's role it played. When will you?

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Smokeyii wrote:
Ville wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

No one power ever dominated the server territorial ownership before sparks.

Umm..  Yeah they did.... three times actually.


No, they didn't. You're utterly wrong.

@danger stranger - Let's take a step back and actually use our brains here instead of just spouting nonsense about "try-harder!" Okay? You remember just a short 6 months ago when there was all these vets returning and new people getting into it? Yeah? Well, they're all gone and YOUR CORP is to blame, like it or not. So what makes you think that JOKE at it's hay-day that could pull 20+ pilots in mech+ with an allied corp of 20+ noobs, and the Russians that could field 10+ and we couldn't win then, that we'll be able to pull something together now? With what? It's pretty much Jita, beastmode and I left. Suppose we can imagine up some new 1m+ EP vets and put them in bots?

The problem is the current playerbase, the vets. They would rather lord over an empty game with nothing to do and no one to fight, than take a risk to break up into smaller factions and fight. What else is there to do but ask the devs step in, when it's obvious you're not interested in taking any of the responsibility for the decline in the playerbase. Joke has owned up to it's failings, it's role it played. When will you?

They don't care Smokey, your attempt is fruitless. They play as if the server is teeming with players, instead of thinking; hey this game is on life support and needs space for others players other than as dominating to grow.

Next time I talk to a new players/leaders interested in taking a station , I will tell them; you have 2 choices you grind 6 months in alpha and probably get slaughted time and time again after that or join the dominating alliance.

RIP PERPETUUM

136 Reply by Ville

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Smokeyii wrote:
Ville wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

No one power ever dominated the server territorial ownership before sparks.

Umm..  Yeah they did.... three times actually.


No, they didn't. You're utterly wrong.

@danger stranger - Let's take a step back and actually use our brains here instead of just spouting nonsense about "try-harder!" Okay? You remember just a short 6 months ago when there was all these vets returning and new people getting into it? Yeah? Well, they're all gone and YOUR CORP is to blame, like it or not. So what makes you think that JOKE at it's hay-day that could pull 20+ pilots in mech+ with an allied corp of 20+ noobs, and the Russians that could field 10+ and we couldn't win then, that we'll be able to pull something together now? With what? It's pretty much Jita, beastmode and I left. Suppose we can imagine up some new 1m+ EP vets and put them in bots?

The problem is the current playerbase, the vets. They would rather lord over an empty game with nothing to do and no one to fight, than take a risk to break up into smaller factions and fight. What else is there to do but ask the devs step in, when it's obvious you're not interested in taking any of the responsibility for the decline in the playerbase. Joke has owned up to it's failings, it's role it played. When will you?

Yeah they did, you might not have been playing then when CIR/RG/Chaos were allied together.  I specifically remember showing up to Nauwy when RG owned the station.

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137 Reply by Stranger Danger (edited by Stranger Danger 2014-10-05 23:43:14)

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Celebro wrote:
Smokeyii wrote:
Ville wrote:

Umm..  Yeah they did.... three times actually.


No, they didn't. You're utterly wrong.

@danger stranger - Let's take a step back and actually use our brains here instead of just spouting nonsense about "try-harder!" Okay? You remember just a short 6 months ago when there was all these vets returning and new people getting into it? Yeah? Well, they're all gone and YOUR CORP is to blame, like it or not. So what makes you think that JOKE at it's hay-day that could pull 20+ pilots in mech+ with an allied corp of 20+ noobs, and the Russians that could field 10+ and we couldn't win then, that we'll be able to pull something together now? With what? It's pretty much Jita, beastmode and I left. Suppose we can imagine up some new 1m+ EP vets and put them in bots?

The problem is the current playerbase, the vets. They would rather lord over an empty game with nothing to do and no one to fight, than take a risk to break up into smaller factions and fight. What else is there to do but ask the devs step in, when it's obvious you're not interested in taking any of the responsibility for the decline in the playerbase. Joke has owned up to it's failings, it's role it played. When will you?

They don't care Smokey, your attempt is fruitless. They play as if the server is teeming with players, instead of thinking; hey this game is on life support and needs space for others players other than as dominating to grow.

Next time I talk to a new players/leaders interested in taking a station , I will tell them; you have 2 choices you grind 6 months in alpha and probably get slaughted time and time again after that or join the dominating alliance.

ahh yes the standard issue "if only CIR wasn't playing" rant that assumes the game would be teeming with players if it wasn't for us.  Just like back when CIR wasn't playing and STC ruled the game and there were 15 people in general chat....you remember that don't you?

If it wasn't for us, there would be zero active organized alliances in game.

The rest of you, especially you celebro, should be organizing the server and trying to play the game rather than begging your enemies to quit.

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138 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2014-10-06 00:05:24)

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Stranger Danger wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Smokeyii wrote:

No, they didn't. You're utterly wrong.

@danger stranger - Let's take a step back and actually use our brains here instead of just spouting nonsense about "try-harder!" Okay? You remember just a short 6 months ago when there was all these vets returning and new people getting into it? Yeah? Well, they're all gone and YOUR CORP is to blame, like it or not. So what makes you think that JOKE at it's hay-day that could pull 20+ pilots in mech+ with an allied corp of 20+ noobs, and the Russians that could field 10+ and we couldn't win then, that we'll be able to pull something together now? With what? It's pretty much Jita, beastmode and I left. Suppose we can imagine up some new 1m+ EP vets and put them in bots?

The problem is the current playerbase, the vets. They would rather lord over an empty game with nothing to do and no one to fight, than take a risk to break up into smaller factions and fight. What else is there to do but ask the devs step in, when it's obvious you're not interested in taking any of the responsibility for the decline in the playerbase. Joke has owned up to it's failings, it's role it played. When will you?

They don't care Smokey, your attempt is fruitless. They play as if the server is teeming with players, instead of thinking; hey this game is on life support and needs space for others players other than as dominating to grow.

Next time I talk to a new players/leaders interested in taking a station , I will tell them; you have 2 choices you grind 6 months in alpha and probably get slaughted time and time again after that or join the dominating alliance.

ahh yes the standard issue "if only CIR wasn't playing" rant that assumes the game would be teeming with players if it wasn't for us.  Just like back when CIR wasn't playing and STC ruled the game and there were 15 people in general chat....you remember that don't you?


If it wasn't for us, there would be zero active organized alliances in game.

The rest of you, especially you celebro, should be organizing the server and trying to play the game rather than begging your enemies to quit.

I think you need a course in reading comprehension. I was mad too when STC ruled due the game imbalance, just ask Ville about it.

RIP PERPETUUM
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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Celebro wrote:
Stranger Danger wrote:
Celebro wrote:

They don't care Smokey, your attempt is fruitless. They play as if the server is teeming with players, instead of thinking; hey this game is on life support and needs space for others players other than as dominating to grow.

Next time I talk to a new players/leaders interested in taking a station , I will tell them; you have 2 choices you grind 6 months in alpha and probably get slaughted time and time again after that or join the dominating alliance.

ahh yes the standard issue "if only CIR wasn't playing" rant that assumes the game would be teeming with players if it wasn't for us.  Just like back when CIR wasn't playing and STC ruled the game and there were 15 people in general chat....you remember that don't you?


If it wasn't for us, there would be zero active organized alliances in game.

The rest of you, especially you celebro, should be organizing the server and trying to play the game rather than begging your enemies to quit.

I think you need a course in reading comprehension. I was mad too when STC ruled due the game imbalance, just ask Ville about it.


Yes but what did you do about it?  A stern forum post?

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Stranger Danger wrote:

Yes but what did you do about it?  A stern forum post?

You can check Ville's thread about OP sparks, I agreed that something had to be done. As far as STC goes they didn't bother most players that much, they even let OPs open for some time. There were less players anyways and remember back then the game had a sub. What got me nuts back then, was the denial sparks was a problem. Now it seems mostly but not all player from your side the table has reversed and some of you are now in denial.

Spark won't fix all the problems but nerfing it will be a good start.

RIP PERPETUUM
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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Celebro wrote:
Stranger Danger wrote:

Yes but what did you do about it?  A stern forum post?

You can check Ville's thread about OP sparks, I agreed that something had to be done. As far as STC goes they didn't bother most players that much, they even let OPs open for some time. There were less players anyways and remember back then the game had a sub. What got me nuts back then, was the denial sparks was a problem. Now it seems mostly but not all player from your side the table has reversed and some of you are now in denial.

Spark won't fix all the problems but nerfing it will be a good start.

Nah will just make it harder for people with one combat account.  Don't care about villes thread.  You guys are, as usual, seeking permanent dev intervention for short term problems.

Wait until the game has all its islands before you start begging to make the game world harder to move across.  They already nerfed sparks lets see how it works with a full game first.

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

CIR is not the reason people didnt stay and play. I heard it was lag and a few tryhards raging on vent that did it in for most.

Get the facts straight.

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Aye Pod wrote:

CIR is not the reason people didnt stay and play. I heard it was lag and a few tryhards raging on vent that did it in for most.

Get the facts straight.

Oh yeah when Lucian threatened Jita on teamspeak...good times...

Leadership 101

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144 Reply by Rex Amelius (edited by Rex Amelius 2014-10-06 01:10:40)

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Stranger Danger wrote:

Don't care about villes thread.  You guys are, as usual, seeking permanent dev intervention for short term problems.

Wait until the game has all its islands before you start begging to make the game world harder to move across.  They already nerfed sparks lets see how it works with a full game first.

After suffering through the 50 page Spark thread I noticed that no matter how many ways it was explained some people just did not understand the issue.

I have no doubt there are people currently asking for spark change who don't get it but see the potential political convenience. So yeah some people have poor motivations for wanting ~dev intervention~ as occurs far too often on way too many game mechanics. On sparks they are accidentally right this time, and likely opposed it last time.

Sparking to other games

145 Reply by Stranger Danger (edited by Stranger Danger 2014-10-06 01:10:22)

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Rex Amelius wrote:
Stranger Danger wrote:

Don't care about villes thread.  You guys are, as usual, seeking permanent dev intervention for short term problems.

Wait until the game has all its islands before you start begging to make the game world harder to move across.  They already nerfed sparks lets see how it works with a full game first.

After suffering through the 50 page Spark thread I noticed that no matter how many ways it was explained some people just did not understand the issue.

I have no doubt there are people currently asking for spark change who don't get it but see the potential political convenience. So yeah some people have poor motivations for wanting ~dev intervention~ as occurs far too often on way too many game mechanics. On sparks they are accidentally right this time, and likely opposed it last time.

Celebro has been consistent for the MECHANICS of good gaming. Others have not for POLITICAL expediency.


agree but I think we need to see what happens when the game is populated and has all its islands. 

you have to agree, no sparks is a huge advantage to people with multiple combat accounts.  that's my only concern. removing sparks (or massively nerfing them again) wont matter to people who can put accounts across all the islands, and plenty here can.

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

I'll flat out say it, the game would be 1000x better off if cir/phm wasn't playing. Hands down, if you guys disappeared tomorrow, Perp might actually grow again.

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Smokeyii wrote:

I'll flat out say it, my game would be 1000x better off if cir/phm wasn't playing. Hands down, if you guys disappeared tomorrow, I may stop crying on the forums.


Fixed it for you. big_smile

148 Reply by Ville

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Smokeyii wrote:

I'll flat out say it, the game would be 1000x better off if cir/phm wasn't playing. Hands down, if you guys disappeared tomorrow, Perp might actually grow again.

We didn't play for two weeks, still 60 in gc.  We haven't actively played in almost a month...  Still no growth.

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149 Reply by Weedy

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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Smokeyii wrote:

I'll flat out say it, the game would be 1000x better off if cir/phm wasn't playing. Hands down, if you guys disappeared tomorrow, Perp might actually grow again.

I am victory,
I write history.
Feel my fist
On your face.
You hate this,
I feel great.

(c) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5xVTkyOq28

I believe pvp could be very exciting and the game has what it takes. But this is game is ruined and we all know  by who, it´s by corps like CiR, -77- and PHM. - by Fu ManChu
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Re: Dear Devs - Why no discussion/action to balance the game?

Smokeyii wrote:

I'll flat out say it, the game would be 1000x better off if cir/phm wasn't playing. Hands down, if you guys disappeared tomorrow, my shrunken Perpetuums might actually grow again.

Guys. YOU NEED BALLS OF STEEL TO WIN PERP!

For 6 months you've been losing bots at a rate of 10 - 1, maybe worse?

4 years in Perp is a long time. No reason now why PoE won't be here in another 4 years.

In that time, somebody will rise to the challenge.

Your puny rag-tag ensemble of has-beens and forum PVPers suck at doing Perp, as displayed once again at South *** last Saturday. Losing to weekend warriors like me.

Perhaps if YOU and your ilk leave perp it would be 1000x better when the server and forum is free from whiny babies, pathetic attempts to win via obvious manipulation of opinions, BS propaganda, trolling and attempts to influence developmental directions. You simply do not need to use such methods.

Tl;dr
Just play the game, play to the best of your ability and enjoy your wins or 10-1 losses with zero access to end-game.

Or gtfo.

Have a nice day, Roboteers...

There has been an awakening... Have you felt it?