Topic: Outpost SAP Missions

Currently Outpost stability automatically raises if the outpost has an owner, and noone completes the SAP.

Why not connect the stability to a mission that the outpost owner (and really only agents of that corp) get a mission generated a few minutes before the SAP timer ends, to retrieve an item that drops into the SAP loot.

and only if that mission was succesfully completed, the stability of the outpost raises.

optionally, if the mission wasn't done several times in a row, the stability falls even without an succesfull attack on the SAP.

most of the code for something like this already exists.

Feedback?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

2 (edited by Celebro 2014-09-08 20:29:02)

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

In a way it makes sense if no one bothers attacking outpost then there is no need to defend it. The sap mechanic works great if someone was always attacking until defenders burn out and just keep to 1 outpost or none. So with no one attacking, the system makes little sense.

Also the locking mechanic of outposts should be separated from ownership intrusion systems for both stability and station access this will make intrusion more frequent and overlaping with other outposts, so harder to defend multiple outposts.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Well I believe the existing ideas floating around that require you to do your own saps to maintain stability are simpler IMO but even with that unless you change sparks it would make no difference anyway.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Jita wrote:

Well I believe the existing ideas floating around that require you to do your own saps to maintain stability are simpler IMO but even with that unless you change sparks it would make no difference anyway.


Just throw away the intrusion system..... It stinks anyway.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

How about we convert all the islands to alpha, so everyone can play!!

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Indeed

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

7 (edited by Burial 2014-09-11 18:31:30)

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Gremrod wrote:
Jita wrote:

Well I believe the existing ideas floating around that require you to do your own saps to maintain stability are simpler IMO but even with that unless you change sparks it would make no difference anyway.


Just throw away the intrusion system..... It stinks anyway.

Why not make outposts generate tax for their owning corporation from facility and market uses?

I have nothing against outpost ownership in general. SAPs are a nice additional CTF mini-game and lighter PVP content, but the ability to lock stations down has to go. It's still beneficial to fight over them while not having something overly big at stake.

Remember...

Saha wrote:

Since you've played quite a few MMOs with consiquence I'm sure you know what happens when something of extreeme value which can be taken away is added to the game. It encorages blobing to defend that value. Nature of human beeings I guess. I've seen it many times as I'm sure you've seen it as well. Do you think the game should go in that direction?
...

Betas can be designed to appeal for small, new and independant corporations, unlike Gammas. If too much is at stake, like keeping the station you use usable, people will be forced to blob.

8 (edited by Gremrod 2014-09-08 21:30:13)

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Burial wrote:
Gremrod wrote:
Jita wrote:

Well I believe the existing ideas floating around that require you to do your own saps to maintain stability are simpler IMO but even with that unless you change sparks it would make no difference anyway.


Just throw away the intrusion system..... It stinks anyway.

I have nothing against outpost ownership in general. SAPs are a nice additional CTF mini-game, just the ability to lock stations down has to go.

Why not make outposts generate tax for their owning corporation from facilities and market?

That way we don't miss out on potential lighter content. It's still beneficial to fight over them while nothing overly big at stake(like Gamma).

I say rip it out and make it a siege system like darkfall.

But really, I think the owner should have the choice on who can use the outpost.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Well, that all boils down to how easy something is to implement. Tweaking old mechanics is usually easier than making something completely new. How does Darkfall siege system work?

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

So if a corp cannot cover all timezones, that corp will constantly loose stability itself? Bad Idea unless we have really a playerbase that allows having a player in each timezone would be possible for far more than just the 2-3 largest corps in game.

11 (edited by Gremrod 2014-09-08 21:40:50)

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Burial wrote:

Well, that all boils down to how easy something is to implement. Tweaking old mechanics is usually easier than making something completely new. How does Darkfall siege system work?

You have to bring a siege stone and plant there. Once 8 or 10 hours is up the stone can be destroyed for two hours making the attacking having to defend the stone before they can attack.

http://www.eu1.darkfallonline.com/help/ … quest.html

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … 3-islands/

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Goffer wrote:

So if a corp cannot cover all timezones, that corp will constantly loose stability itself? Bad Idea unless we have really a playerbase that allows having a player in each timezone would be possible for far more than just the 2-3 largest corps in game.

Taking half the saps would maintain stability. One sap would be missed and drop, the other would be taken and it rise. If you can't do half the saps you don't live there.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

14 (edited by Burial 2014-09-10 12:38:50)

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Annihilator wrote:

Currently Outpost stability automatically raises if the outpost has an owner, and noone completes the SAP.

Why not connect the stability to a mission that the outpost owner (and really only agents of that corp) get a mission generated a few minutes before the SAP timer ends, to retrieve an item that drops into the SAP loot.

and only if that mission was succesfully completed, the stability of the outpost raises.

optionally, if the mission wasn't done several times in a row, the stability falls even without an succesfull attack on the SAP.

most of the code for something like this already exists.

Feedback?

++

Goes to the right direction.

15 (edited by Goffer 2014-09-10 13:47:44)

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Jita wrote:

Taking half the saps would maintain stability. One sap would be missed and drop, the other would be taken and it rise. If you can't do half the saps you don't live there.

If you missed two Specimen in a row, you are very vulnerable. In the end, covering 12h and having no one there 12h, might mean, you loose more than 2 sap in row.

I played on the side locked out with more than often no station to access and long time only limited outpost access for over a year,  and now I play on the side having nearly every station. I really know both sides and I appreciate still a mechanism, that forces you to play there active, but SAP alone is not the solution, nor will it be a removal of locking rights. In the end this discussion is old, and most suggest solutions here would change, but not improve situation.

You as well as most other veterans know exactly that defending is too hard vs attacking even with station locks and it was far more difficult without station lock.
Remember back how easy it was to bring lithus full of bots in enemy terminal, than operate from there. So in the end, it is not just a locking problem. It is a far deeper problem than just focus on SAP and terminal lock.

My beta experience started with our corp using beta outpost for production on an island we could not enter during primetime without getting blown up. We used off-times, and the fact, that good preparation allowed us to reach terminal before enemy could alarm and gather force against us. I don't have the feeling, that this should be normal again.

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Annihilator wrote:

...

optionally, if the mission wasn't done several times in a row, the stability falls even without an succesfull attack on the SAP.
...

i wonder whats so hard to understand on this sentence, especially, since there was no number given in the whole post how MUCH the stability would fall.

All scenarios based on the assumption that the stability would fall as much as if a the sap was finished by an attacking force are exaggerations.

actually my second itteration of this system would have spread other, lesser stability rising "missions" across the the day, independant from the SAP timers. Dynamically created - could even include the tast to kill a player, that has RED standing to the owning corp, that stays within the outposts zone. (or chassis scanning him)
But going to much into details is not worth the effort if the first itteration is not acceptable...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

So you want to add more boring assignments to the existing list of boring assignments?

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Manufactured drama.  If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.  Just like the whole locked out Beta thing.  Some people never learn.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

How about something where there is the 1 hour window currently for an attacker to take a sap. If he takes it stability goes down. If it is not taken, then immediately afterwards the owner of the outpost has to complete the sap in say 15 min to get the loot and stability increase.

You could then have stability decrease if the outpost owner goes more than 2 saps in a row without taking it, or some such. And even tie the station lockout mechanic to it. Where if the outpost owner does not complete his sap he then loses the ability to lock out the station. Do this in conjunction with maybe a 75 stability or better to lock station maybe.

Add in that only the corporation that owns the station can spark into it. And we may just be having things. If the lockout is not gonna be removed, and Im still on the fence about it, tbh. Then it needs to be made much more difficult to do. And really should only be able to be done if a corp is LIVING out of the outpost.

Even a little random 15 minute timer twice a day that only shows up if you are docked in that station to go and do some menial task to keep your lockout ability. That way you need your corp living in that outpost to have a good chance at keeping the lockout up. Idk, just spitballing here.


Just another idea. Anni's idea about the mission being given during the last 15 min of sap or something for a defender would be ok also.

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

20 (edited by Goffer 2014-09-11 06:41:47)

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

If you like to force living there, you could bring something complete different to SAP to enforce activity. But how do you count activity? Owner to have at least 5 different agents docking in Terminal a day? Owner to produce/repair or recycle at least 10 items/week? Force owner to perform at least 1 assignment/day? Kill 10 surrounding NPC/day? Or spend 100k Nora/week to pay stability?

Giving the defender a 15 minute window to perform task after 1h more or less active defense up to 2 times a day is somehow ridiculous and if it is within this hour, you need more power if you are under attack, as we also had several intrusions with two rather equal sides with both sides waiting for the other to show weakness. Someone remembering when we (mainly Chaos) conquered Initia Specimen, while a massive large fleet of HM/M failed to defend SAP?

With the current player base only very few corps are even able to maintain this on their dedicated outpost where they live if there would be no thread of attacker. Or do you prefer to have most ouposts open to everybody and like your enemy to search for you?

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Shadowmine wrote:

How about something where there is the 1 hour window currently for an attacker to take a sap. If he takes it stability goes down. If it is not taken, then immediately afterwards the owner of the outpost has to complete the sap in say 15 min to get the loot and stability increase.

You could then have stability decrease if the outpost owner goes more than 2 saps in a row without taking it, or some such. And even tie the station lockout mechanic to it. Where if the outpost owner does not complete his sap he then loses the ability to lock out the station. Do this in conjunction with maybe a 75 stability or better to lock station maybe.

Add in that only the corporation that owns the station can spark into it. And we may just be having things. If the lockout is not gonna be removed, and Im still on the fence about it, tbh. Then it needs to be made much more difficult to do. And really should only be able to be done if a corp is LIVING out of the outpost.

Even a little random 15 minute timer twice a day that only shows up if you are docked in that station to go and do some menial task to keep your lockout ability. That way you need your corp living in that outpost to have a good chance at keeping the lockout up. Idk, just spitballing here.


Just another idea. Anni's idea about the mission being given during the last 15 min of sap or something for a defender would be ok also.


That punishes the defender for not have 24 hour coverage of his saps. 

And is tedious.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

It's not a bad idea, IMO, but instead of debating on current mechanics like lockouts and stability and sparks, why don't we all find a way to get more people actively playing the game.

Two things to consider.

1. Ville, Abe, Gunner, *** and several others all *** and moaned like crazy in TS and on the forums less than a year ago because one corporation owned all the beta outposts in the game. 90% of the posts in the spark teleport threadnaught were over that very reason.

2. cir/77th now own all of the beta outposts in the game. Shoe is on the other foot, but it seems like all the big talk those people made (well, except for gunner who's said several times that sparks are still massively overpowered) seems to have been forgotten in their new found acquisition of all of the beta outposts.


Maybe it's time for some to take a step back from their egos and have a look at the havoc they've caused and accept responsibility, and figure out a solution as to how to move forward, but the constant back and forth about in game mechanics that would be just fine if there were another 5000 people playing the game is really getting old, and totally misses what truly plagues the game and serves to misguide the attention needed to solve the problem.

edit: Offensive. - DEV Zoom

Reset each other yet?

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

TBH, the quickest way to get CIR and friends to stop owning all the outposts is to remove cortexes from sap loot. big_smile

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

Shadowmine wrote:

TBH, the quickest way to get CIR and friends to stop owning all the outposts is to remove cortexes from sap loot. big_smile

So True..

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Outpost SAP Missions

New idea, only CIR PVP deaths produce cortexes!

<GargajCNS> we maim to please