Topic: Reworked terraforming

As you might know already, along with the gamma revamp we're removing beacon terraforming from the game.

We're left with module terraforming, which was quite cumbersome before, so we've been working on improving it. The latest incarnation is already out on the test server.

What's new:

  • Instant tile locking. There is no way around this, module terraforming would tremendously suffer if there was a timed lock. In the past your main concern about this was related to "aggressive terraforming" during sieges, which is not that feasible anymore. Of course this affects all features that need a tile lock positively, like mining and harvesting.

  • The terraforming module is the same, but instead of using different types of charges, there is now only one, called "Terraforming charge".

  • The method of terraforming (raise, lower, smooth, level) is now selected from the reworked terraforming panel, available from the top-right terrain windows dropdown menu.

  • The process looks like this: lock a tile, then click on a terraforming method and adjust the size and falloff of the desired area to be terraformed. The method and settings are tied to a lock, not the module. So if you activate "Raise" on a lock, your modules will always raise that tile, until you change the method on it. (This can also be done mid-cycle, you don't have to turn off the module. The new settings will be effective at the start of the next module cycle.)

  • Like before, the red overlay on the terrain shows the affected terrain, which is also the area where other players can't stand during terraforming.

  • And of course the maximum slope angle that you can terraform is limited. Unfortunately the module doesn't "know" when it reaches this point, so you have to stop it manually in this case.

  • There is also a "Terrain height display" available in the terrain windows dropdown, which helps you visually compare terrain altitudes while terraforming.

Re: Reworked terraforming

You need some "what do these actually do" or a help button.  Like what does fall off do?  What happens when I click smoother, versus leveler.  There should be a side pane that says:  Smoother - Removes rough texture, Levelers - Levels things.  In the beginning it was very confusing and cumbersome for me, until I played around with it, then I realized what each one did.  Please, Please, please put just a hair more Polish on the interface before turning it lose.  It feels like its 97% of the way done. 

BTW, Terraforming is not fun.  It's not worth the time to use it but to level a small area imo , and it's too slow on the amount it does very small area.  IMO, Its very painful and I would rather not have it in its current iteration.  But if we must have it this way can we up the amount the charge does per tick, or the cycle time of the terraformers?  It just seemed Painfully slow.

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Re: Reworked terraforming

It is probably slow for one man. But 4-5 Symbionts full with terraforming modules can make a decent sized hill disappear in no time. (We tried.)

And I think terraforming is the most empirical mechanic in the game, you need to see it in action to get a feeling how it works.

4 (edited by Cassius 2014-08-20 14:41:04)

Re: Reworked terraforming

I think Zoom you have eliminated one of the greatest features the game had. The creativity and detail you could build with beacon terraforming, and the subsequent bases will never be duplicated. All you had to do was adjust the terraforming limits.

Saying 4 or 5 Symbionts can terraform reasonably quickly with the new system is like saying 4 or 5 arkhes can kill a heavy in a reasonable time. Maybe it can be done, but who is really going to bother with all this extra work and time?

With the new system people will do the least terraforming required, a big fat pyramid base structure with maxed slope for defense to build your terminal and facilities on, or simply level the ground enough to place a structure.

Goodbye creativity. If you thought the old bases were ugly, youre gonna be surprised. People are really going to miss the PLANNING stage of base building.

Re: Reworked terraforming

While they may have removed the beacon terraforming. It doesn't mean it is gone for good. They could still figure a way to do it and slowly put it back into the game.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Reworked terraforming

Beacon terraforming was awesome. Given the new terraforming limits I don't understand its removal.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Reworked terraforming

i agree with ville when he says its painfully slow and cumbersome.

the new system removes the link between the activated module, and the tile your working on - why do i still "lock" anything?
why cant you make it work exactly like "planning" interface of the beacon terraforming, where you use your mousecurser like brush, and it only terraforms as long as you keep the mousebutton down? The active Terraforming modules will only consume ammo as long as you click, and the number of modules affects the cycle time, that is automatically set to "single TF cycle / number of TF modules"

(somehow i think thats how SMGs work in Robocraft..)

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Re: Reworked terraforming

Cassius wrote:

I think Zoom you have eliminated one of the greatest features the game had. The creativity and detail you could build with beacon terraforming, and the subsequent bases will never be duplicated. All you had to do was adjust the terraforming limits.

I still think you Devs could have kept the old 'unlimited' slope terraforming with Beacons AND used ZONES to contain the crazy island-wide terraforming graffiti. Unfortunately I have so little time for in-game play, much less time for in-game testing. I hope the new system works out.

Sparking to other games

Re: Reworked terraforming

Rex Amelius wrote:
Cassius wrote:

I think Zoom you have eliminated one of the greatest features the game had. The creativity and detail you could build with beacon terraforming, and the subsequent bases will never be duplicated. All you had to do was adjust the terraforming limits.

I still think you Devs could have kept the old 'unlimited' slope terraforming with Beacons AND used ZONES to contain the crazy island-wide terraforming graffiti. Unfortunately I have so little time for in-game play, much less time for in-game testing. I hope the new system works out.

What ever they do they need to move. Steamchart shows the game @ almost the same level of players on steam as before it was released as EA in April.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Reworked terraforming

DEV Zoom wrote:

And I think terraforming is the most empirical mechanic in the game, you need to see it in action to get a feeling how it works.

I sat my wife down on the ttest server and said try to figure this out, she has never played perpetuum before and within 5 minutes she was like wtf are these buttons, why is there no mouse over tool tips, why is there no help?

All I am suggesting on your interface is a little mouse over tooltip that says:  This will raise stuff, this will lower stuff, and this is to level, and this is to smooth.

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Re: Reworked terraforming

ok

Re: Reworked terraforming

<3

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Re: Reworked terraforming

After messing with Terraforming a bit, I'd like to ask the question, how close can I terraform to buildings?

In the old days I remember getting a plan and havering 8 multiboxed symbionts gang tackle it and GG.  Done in under an hour.

But with this new system I see a terminal getting dropped then built then terraforming being performed because of the time it takes to terraform.

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Re: Reworked terraforming

The last mode of the terrain slope display shows you the red areas around buildings that can't be terraformed.

Re: Reworked terraforming

That's handy to know.

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Re: Reworked terraforming

Ville wrote:

After messing with Terraforming a bit, I'd like to ask the question, how close can I terraform to buildings?

In the old days I remember getting a plan and havering 8 multiboxed symbionts gang tackle it and GG.  Done in under an hour.

But with this new system I see a terminal getting dropped then built then terraforming being performed because of the time it takes to terraform.

Not everyone can bite off more than they can chew like you Ville. You can hardly balance based on 8 alt symbiants.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Reworked terraforming

You can replace the word multibox with "other dudes you like playing games with". The problem is there's no group play in single tile terraforming and it can be easily messed up by one miss clicker, who's like wtf does smoothers do?

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Re: Reworked terraforming

well one thing i have asked for since the start of the beacon terraforming removal is a reverse charge. That way if you make a mistake you can reload and reverse it back.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Reworked terraforming

It happens too quickly though.  Before you even figure out its *** 5 more charges happen.

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Re: Reworked terraforming

so the reverse charges would have to be small and cheap.

ideally ofc it would show you what its going to look like 5 or 10 charges from now but that would probably be another month.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Reworked terraforming

Jita wrote:

so the reverse charges would have to be small and cheap.

ideally ofc it would show you what its going to look like 5 or 10 charges from now but that would probably be another month.

Wouldn't this cause a problem by making offensive terraforming an enemy base far easier?

Re: Reworked terraforming

Isn't terraforming linked to having a station there anyway?

Re: Reworked terraforming

Tonnik wrote:

Isn't terraforming linked to having a station there anyway?

since terraforming is eventually necessary to place down a terminal... no.
there could be a no-hostile-terraforming zone around a terminal, that i haven't noticed next to -77-'s base.

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Re: Reworked terraforming

Can you have the terraforming module save its settings?  With Single tile terraforming there is a lot of moving to do it effectively.  Right now its:

Select Tile ->  Select Terraforming options -> Cycle modules.

Rinse and Repeat.

Two things that will make this 200% better.

Decrease the cycle time of terraformers.  (Even if its just a T4 variant) AND
Have the terraforming automatically default to the last terraforming performed.

So Lock tile, Select type, cycle modules, unlock tile, select tile, (cut out a step)cycle Modules, unlock tile

Those two changes would make my Gamma experience 200% better.

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Re: Reworked terraforming

the terraforming with the slope limit is anoying because of the limited AoE of the terraforming.
if you raise a single tile so high, that it results in a pyramid with all sides max slope, you have to continue down at the bottom of the pyramid.

if you think about it - its in line with the crafting system. lots of clicks and running, just to build a single item.... wink

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