Re: Improved NPC AI

You could maybe learn how to play the game without logi support.
It's actually a valid and profitable playstyle.

Sure it's not max optimization, but you still mine enough and farm enough and make enough running solo bots.

The nature of every MMO game is for the player to figure out within the framework of the game that is presented what is the absolute max reward for min effort. No matter what he rules of any game there will always b a method that will fit this category. Syndic is right in this regard. And it's not a bad thing. It's simply up to the Devs to provide enough content to grow their playerbase. Not nerf content in order to restrict wealth generation.

Re: Improved NPC AI

Cassius wrote:

You could maybe learn how to play the game without logi support.
It's actually a valid and profitable playstyle.

Sure it's not max optimization, but you still mine enough and farm enough and make enough running solo bots.

The nature of every MMO game is for the player to figure out within the framework of the game that is presented what is the absolute max reward for min effort. No matter what he rules of any game there will always b a method that will fit this category. Syndic is right in this regard. And it's not a bad thing. It's simply up to the Devs to provide enough content to grow their playerbase. Not nerf content in order to restrict wealth generation.

translation: hot air. NPC aggro will be fixed and we will put back shields on our RSA bots. (and we all forgot about the Sensor strength extension that makes them less prone to ECM, and with ECCM almost immune to weak npc ECM)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

128 (edited by Kanogi 2014-08-01 23:16:25)

Re: Improved NPC AI

make the npcs red again, and make the mining fields move after a certain time like u already are saying u are going to do on gamma. Better fix than this at least.
And bring back roaming npcs and observers at alpha 2 yarr

[05:36:51] <Lemon> i hate you... just so you know

[15:05:49] <Ville> I have to admit, that was pretty fu**ing pimp ^^
                           http://www.perp-kill.net/related/749

129 (edited by Kaldenines 2014-08-02 00:52:08)

Re: Improved NPC AI

Shadowmine wrote:

You just have to watch out for npcs...

But that's the point, you don't have to watch out for NPCs unless you are running energy transfer.  This change may not be a big deal by itself but there is no reason for creating inconsistencies like this. 

This is the kind of approach that left us for example:
- unable to drop a TP after jumping through a gate flagged.
- made beta spawns/observers even less worth doing becuase they dont drop loot if they blow up on eachother
- gave us the insanely agressive red NPC problem that lead to the orange NPCs in the first place

+1
-Confucius

130 (edited by Cassius 2014-08-02 02:28:44)

Re: Improved NPC AI

Annihilator wrote:
Cassius wrote:

You could maybe learn how to play the game without logi support.
It's actually a valid and profitable playstyle.

Sure it's not max optimization, but you still mine enough and farm enough and make enough running solo bots.

The nature of every MMO game is for the player to figure out within the framework of the game that is presented what is the absolute max reward for min effort. No matter what he rules of any game there will always b a method that will fit this category. Syndic is right in this regard. And it's not a bad thing. It's simply up to the Devs to provide enough content to grow their playerbase. Not nerf content in order to restrict wealth generation.

translation: hot air. NPC aggro will be fixed and we will put back shields on our RSA bots. (and we all forgot about the Sensor strength extension that makes them less prone to ECM, and with ECCM almost immune to weak npc ECM)

Translation of the translation: you are an idiot. When I played the game for 3 years I never ran logi on any of my bots, my computer did not allow it, after Gamma 1.0. So I learned how to play the game with a solo combat, or a solo Ewar, or solo miner ... It can be done. Maybe if you don't know something it's best to shut the *** up?

Also, edit, what Kanogi said.

131

Re: Improved NPC AI

Kanogi wrote:

make the npcs red again, and make the mining fields move after a certain time like u already are saying u are going to do on gamma. Better fix than this at least.
And bring back roaming npcs and observers at alpha 2 yarr

This .... end thread. Put a leash back on the npcs related to lock/ sight.

Anonymous: lobo is the only hero left in this god foresaken game / :also, Lobo is god among men
http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=agent-his … mp;month=7 Best month 104 to 1 k/d

Re: Improved NPC AI

Lobo wrote:
Kanogi wrote:

make the npcs red again, and make the mining fields move after a certain time like u already are saying u are going to do on gamma. Better fix than this at least.
And bring back roaming npcs and observers at alpha 2 yarr

This .... end thread. Put a leash back on the npcs related to lock/ sight.

+ 1

RIP PERPETUUM

133

Re: Improved NPC AI

While I agree I can't help but feel if you guys hadn't been *** trying to kill the game we wouldn't have this issue - and wouldn't be wasting dev time with it. That seems to be a reoccuring theme.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

134

Re: Improved NPC AI

To add to that this is a failure of the devs to deal with the issue properly. If they had said stop doing it or get banned they would have saved hours or work and we would have a better system.

Eve did it when people were suicide ganking noobs in starter systems.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

135 (edited by Syndic 2014-08-02 11:00:30)

Re: Improved NPC AI

It wouldn't be a recurring theme if people like you could play the game without crying your eyes out to the Devs and ex-Devs in your corps to change something every time you lost a fight or two.

Unfortunately you can't. That's why we have to reset each other. And stop using EWar. And stop using EnWar. And stop using Detectors. And Stop using Maskers. And stop doing beacons. And stop doing missions. And stop mining epriton. And stop winning. And give you a station so you feel good.

Because god forbid you actually have to try and evolve your inefficient and impotent corporations. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

136 (edited by Jita 2014-08-02 12:04:41)

Re: Improved NPC AI

Typical Syndic idiocy. We were allied when the red rats thing happened. Since then the mission abuse is the only thing changed and that was two posts in the forum. We reset you, we didn't reset each other. Still glad we did.

I mean what are you trying to say, it's ok for you to keep abusing the game's mechanics because we cant win a fight?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Improved NPC AI

It wouldn't be a recurring theme if people like you could play the game without crying your eyes out to the Devs and ex-Devs in your corps to change something every time you lost a fight or two.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

138 (edited by Burial 2014-08-02 12:27:50)

Re: Improved NPC AI

Grind Cons out of the game and we are back to where we were pre-Steam. That's probably the most harm you can do right now. Keep it up.

139

Re: Improved NPC AI

Stop breaking the game and people wont have to report it

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Improved NPC AI

I like the game and Cons, plus they have done nothing to warrant all-out war.

The only harm we're interested in doing, is to your two corporations. And we have performed spectacularly good so far. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

141

Re: Improved NPC AI

Can we just revert the fixes to red NPCs and beacons and just ban people who abuse it?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

142

Re: Improved NPC AI

Jita wrote:

While I agree I can't help but feel if you guys hadn't been *** trying to kill the game we wouldn't have this issue - and wouldn't be wasting dev time with it. That seems to be a reoccuring theme.

Had the npcs lost intrest after the first 1k meter we wouldn't have this problem or wasted time. The kill or be killed npc ai caused this, stc started the ball rolling by pulling a spawn to tellesis we perfected the art shortly thereafter. We killed the game..... you sound like a old lady screamimg at a shoe sales person. They gave me blisters.

Anonymous: lobo is the only hero left in this god foresaken game / :also, Lobo is god among men
http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=agent-his … mp;month=7 Best month 104 to 1 k/d

143 (edited by Jita 2014-08-02 14:17:04)

Re: Improved NPC AI

Lobo wrote:
Jita wrote:

While I agree I can't help but feel if you guys hadn't been *** trying to kill the game we wouldn't have this issue - and wouldn't be wasting dev time with it. That seems to be a reoccuring theme.

Had the npcs lost intrest after the first 1k meter we wouldn't have this problem or wasted time. The kill or be killed npc ai caused this, stc started the ball rolling by pulling a spawn to tellesis we perfected the art shortly thereafter. We killed the game..... you sound like a old lady screamimg at a shoe sales person. They gave me blisters.

Ha, ok perhaps a little. I have fat feet, sue me.

The fact remains though that they could correct the behaviour just as easy as the mechanic and the behaviour if not corrected will move on and break something else next. I'm not talking about anyone in particular, it's just how sandbox mmo players work. The devs will never fix all the loopholes, they need to correct the behaviours.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Improved NPC AI

Syndic wrote:

I like the game and Cons, plus they have done nothing to warrant all-out war.

The only harm we're interested in doing, is to your two corporations. And we have performed spectacularly good so far. lol

Please show me all the harm you think you've done to STC and I can show you all the harm we've done to your side.

Re: Improved NPC AI

Syndic wrote:

It wouldn't be a recurring theme if people like you could play the game without crying your eyes out to the Devs and ex-Devs in your corps to change something every time you lost a fight or two.

(Cough) Armored Teleports (Cough)

Those of you lucky enough to have your lives, take them with you. However, leave the mods you've lost. They belong to me now.

Scarab Kill Count:2

146

Re: Improved NPC AI

Shadowmine wrote:
Syndic wrote:

It wouldn't be a recurring theme if people like you could play the game without crying your eyes out to the Devs and ex-Devs in your corps to change something every time you lost a fight or two.

(Cough) Armored Teleports (Cough)

(Cough) Spark Teleports (Cough)

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

147 (edited by Annihilator 2014-08-02 18:50:24)

Re: Improved NPC AI

Jita wrote:
Shadowmine wrote:
Syndic wrote:

It wouldn't be a recurring theme if people like you could play the game without crying your eyes out to the Devs and ex-Devs in your corps to change something every time you lost a fight or two.

(Cough) Armored Teleports (Cough)

(Cough) Spark Teleports (Cough)

(Cough) Bat Phone (Cough)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

148

Re: Improved NPC AI

QQ, I can't beat people in game better petition the devs.  lol

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Improved NPC AI

Let's try an actual on topic post for a change.

When I started playing, all NPCs were red, there were red grand Mech Observers that spawned (perhaps by artifact hunters) right outside ICS Alpha that vaporized my yagel ... I could walk roughly 1200 m from ICSA and try and farm a lvl 4 Ewar/ lvl 2 light spawn on my trial which dropped occasionally a T3 lwf. It felt pretty special. I lost a lot of bots but learned to kite effectively, learned to replace losses, learned to value T3 gear ... And it was a challenge. When I got better I could find harder spawns to challenge my skills, and earn better loot. Nia was dangerous. The roaming observers on Alpha were an event, you either avoided them or died, or tried with others.

I guess the first step away from this set up was players complaining about it being too hard, miners were dying to roaming observers ....  So they were removed from Alpha.
Then, for the sake of new players spawns were converted to orange in the new areas. Mining now was risk free, afk friendly, and challenges, and entertainment value for new players decreased. Easier had no effect on player retention.
Then, the chain mechanic which allowed kiting and reliable farming was changed, wealth generation too easy?
A number of changes have followed, leaving absolutely no challenges on alpha (risk) and orange spawns on Betas that are not even worth the ammo to farm them.

All incentives for player interaction with NPCs have been slowly removed, to what end? Better NPC ai?  And this will do what? Give the player a better gaming experience? Unlikely. Things like teleporting Jihadist NPCs were introduced, which couldn't be replicated by any in game mechanic or available mod, simply to ... prevent players killing NPCs efficiently. Now we have (or had, I don't play so I don't know) exploding beta NPCs that don't drop loot and other nerfs which ... DISCOURAGE ... or ARTIFICIALLY INCREASE THE DIFFICULTY of farming NPCs, for what end? A better gameplay experience? You are getting the opposite and losing paying customers in the process.

You the Devs HAVE to do 2 things.

1) sit down and plot a path of what you want the entire game to be. You have made so many reactionary minor changes to make "better NPC ai" you have killed NPC farming, and the fun in it.

2) PLAY THE DAMN GAME!
Too many players have their own agendas, good or bad, that the forum feedback is just a cesspool of politics. Play the game. Play the changes you have made. Go find an old build of the NPC mechanics from 3 years ago and play them, then decide what is more enjoyable. The old mechanics are far superior to today's patchwork garbage of changes. The biggest issue with the old system was ease of kiting, maybe a simply improvement to the chase AI of the NPCs, like forcing them to return to their original spot rather than stand at the end of the "leash" and get slaughtered would have been a far simpler change, and far more effective.

Just some thoughts, on topic, and political bullshit free. Think about it.

Re: Improved NPC AI

games break, its an imperfect world

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."