1 (edited by Celebro 2014-07-29 13:04:12)

Topic: Low player retention: Solutions

This is one the the biggest issues since game's release in 2010. For that reason this has to become a priority after Gamma islands are released again. No point now in dropping the gamma improvements though, its still (I would assume) too far ahead in development to just cancel.

Therefore in order of priorities , what need to be fixed next:


Travel times:  This has always been the number one issue with new and old players, the whole map network needs to be reworked. It's all well and good to create distances in game worlds but as pointed out before PVE/Missions needs to be more casual friendly, the idea is in 1 hour of game play , players needs to be satisfied with what they have accomplished.

Assignments: This is a long time coming. More variety is required if it's to remain random, mini terminals, soft instances etc, the priority here is to get the player right on the action as soon as possible hence why I mentioned travel times first, both issues need to be worked together in unison probably. Balanced rewards for each misson as well as more challenging ones for the vets.

Robot changes: Variations of the the same bots might be the quickest solution. We need specialized robot tiers. Specialized mission bots that are more dependent for single account players. Every combat bot (except Ewars) need to have a pvp and pve tier with their own roles and weaknesses. Just slap new stats and paint job, and a new name on same bots.

Corporation management: Leaders/ CEO are the ambassadors of the game, they provide player created content and vastly improve player retention. We need a better system for other players to contribute to the corp without leaving the corp open to theft. More role options, alliance system etc. The easier you make it for leaders the more they will try and keep players happy and get more involved. An improved corp industry UI where we can give members specific roles and take limited amount of resources to build.

Balancing risk vs reward: A holistic approach with how Alpha-beta-gamma works providing a rewarding experience for those who would like to take more risks and be rewarded for it.



I know this must have been all mentioned before and most stuff is planned. Just wanted to get it out there in my own words and see what others have to say to improve player retention all in one thread.

I think this improvements should be more focused to newer and casual players to build more player numbers steadily, then they can focus on improving killing each other even further.

RIP PERPETUUM

2 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2014-07-29 13:51:26)

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Very well thought out & summarised. I hope the DEVs are doing something like this.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Good stuff

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

I agree that these are all double plus ideas, I like the PVE/PVP tier bots and corporate roles the most.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

5 (edited by Jita 2014-07-29 16:44:24)

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Agreeing with OP

Other stuff:

add another 100 islands

make half of beta islands only contain stations you cant lock out

remove sparks from the game

remove detectors from the game

make all these mission locations around alpha actual missions you can pick up without going to a station

Make all artifacts combat based with real rewards and real big spawns.

add pve rewards on a random basis with t4+ and preatorian etc ct's dropping on a random basis and requiring colixium

Add gamma islands now

only add t1 gamma structures and all the new stuff thats not ready add over the next few months

limit terraforming to flatten only

rebalance gunnery

retask mk2 to be specialised

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

6 (edited by Crepitus 2014-07-29 18:03:43)

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Celebro wrote:

This is one the the biggest issues since game's release in 2010. For that reason this has to become a priority after Gamma islands are released again. No point now in dropping the gamma improvements though, its still (I would assume) too far ahead in development to just cancel.

Therefore in order of priorities , what need to be fixed next:


Travel times:  This has always been the number one issue with new and old players, the whole map network needs to be reworked. It's all well and good to create distances in game worlds but as pointed out before PVE/Missions needs to be more casual friendly, the idea is in 1 hour of game play , players needs to be satisfied with what they have accomplished.

Assignments: This is a long time coming. More variety is required if it's to remain random, mini terminals, soft instances etc, the priority here is to get the player right on the action as soon as possible hence why I mentioned travel times first, both issues need to be worked together in unison probably. Balanced rewards for each misson as well as more challenging ones for the vets.

Robot changes: Variations of the the same bots might be the quickest solution. We need specialized robot tiers. Specialized mission bots that are more dependent for single account players. Every combat bot (except Ewars) need to have a pvp and pve tier with their own roles and weaknesses. Just slap new stats and paint job, and a new name on same bots.

Corporation management: Leaders/ CEO are the ambassadors of the game, they provide player created content and vastly improve player retention. We need a better system for other players to contribute to the corp without leaving the corp open to theft. More role options, alliance system etc. The easier you make it for leaders the more they will try and keep players happy and get more involved. An improved corp industry UI where we can give members specific roles and take limited amount of resources to build.

Balancing risk vs reward: A holistic approach with how Alpha-beta-gamma works providing a rewarding experience for those who would like to take more risks and be rewarded for it.



I know this must have been all mentioned before and most stuff is planned. Just wanted to get it out there in my own words and see what others have to say to improve player retention all in one thread.

I think this improvements should be more focused to newer and casual players to build more player numbers steadily, then they can focus on improving killing each other even further.

These are generally good ideas that have been iterated many, many, MANY, ***MANY*** times over the years.

Here is my taking-a-break thread from 2011.
Here is my "What's the state of the game?" thread from 2012 before returning then.
My last thread not talking about a different game shortly before I stopped logging in again 4 months after returning in 2012.

Here is my "What's the state of the game?" thread from about 4 months ago.

*Bonus*  The best thread ever, tied with autopilot for making the game better.


You'll note quite a bit of overlap between the first four threads.  There are many other threads with similar themes from people who quit.  Also, hey DEVs, what happened to stuff like this? talk to us outside moderation/tickets maybe lol

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Good stuff Celebro.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Sanbox AI

the NPCs need to be changed from mindless resource generators that eventually shoot at you to a part of the experience. This includes them beeing part of the "Risk vs. reward" balance mentioned.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

answer game/support tickets in a timely fashion. IE 3 -5 days max.

Leaving a new player waiting on an answer that can take 1 month is just unacceptable. Even if it is just no - no new bot at least it is closed and they can attempt to rebuild.

What is a new player to think when customer support takes a long time? That the devs dont care about the game or people who put the time in.

Proper Customer Relations will help a lot in retention.

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Curblugeon wrote:

answer game/support tickets in a timely fashion. IE 3 -5 days max.

Leaving a new player waiting on an answer that can take 1 month is just unacceptable. Even if it is just no - no new bot at least it is closed and they can attempt to rebuild.

What is a new player to think when customer support takes a long time? That the devs dont care about the game or people who put the time in.

Proper Customer Relations will help a lot in retention.

A single issue voter.  How do you feel about abortion/gay rights/gun control/single payer healthcare/flat tax?

PS, it depends on what it is... They are definitely not processed in the order received.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

I think they should do a survey in which they ask players what they enjoy most about the game and what keeps them playing as well as what they dislike most.

+1
-Confucius

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Surveys are a legitimate way of gathering feedback, however they'd have to take into consideration how many people are out there with 10+ accounts.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Kaldenines wrote:

I think they should do a survey in which they ask players what they enjoy most about the game and what keeps them playing as well as what they dislike most.

1. Forums
2. PVP
3. Epic Tears.
4. Diplomacy
5. Player Interaction

Things I dislike:
1.  Mining.
2.  Harvesting.
3.  Sexual relations with a goat.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Well, I see no harm in posting lists in this thread.

What keeps me playing:
1. PvP (when it's actually happening).
2. Doing things in PvP zones (but it's not been worth the risk recently).
3. Producing things (I would also sell more things if I could produce more of an excess, I am actually a massive carebear).

Things I dislike:
1. Farming NPCs / beacons.
2. Any kind of grinding really.
3. The anemic market.

+1
-Confucius

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

I like the idea of surveys it really puts data  into context, it may surprise the Devs with the result. Anyhow I think the forums is plagued with opinions for years (as Creptius says) of why the game does not retain many players.

Have the Devs listened? Not in the past, I think now they are trying to but don't have the means to patch the game or ad content every month.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

What keeps me playing:
1.) PvP (solo and in groups, small and large scale) and accoutrements (meta-gaming, spying, killboard *** talk, political intrigue, epic enemy soundboards from our talent, etc)
2.) Tie: Helping newbies / Forums
3.) Production (amassing wealth, trying to finish out my research tree - I'm at 69% personal)
4.) NPC farming when I want something mindless and TS is muted.

Things I dislike that need serious work:
1.) On-foot travel times, seriously, it's been so many years, they are literally in the realm of real life which is not a plus.  Do the highways, do a base speed increase, whatever.
2.) PvE Missions - I think you've probably already read my recent experience with these.
3.) Production mineral costs, they're insane and lots of low tier stuff requires epriton/noralgis which is equally insane, for some reason the better balance of these changes have been for the worse (although liquid epriton and mass reduction 40% were good).

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

I won't bother to list anything because;

1. Devs usually don't listen
2. Devs usually don't have a clue how the game really works
3. Devs usually balance the game strictly based on forum posts

Over the years the playerbase posted a LOT of topics like this. They haven't listened before, they rarely listen now, I wouldn't hold my breath thinking they'll start listening now.

Gamma didn't get wiped because players exploited a game mechanic to create turtle islands. Gamma got wiped because Devs didn't listen to the players who tested it on the test-server and explicitely told them it will result in turtle islands.

The only real benefit we've achieved over the years is the test server (which isn't being used because broken code is still pushed through to live), and we got rid of the skype-list of privileged closed-beta players influencing development (and we only have their word for it).

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

18 (edited by Annihilator 2014-07-30 18:41:23)

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Syndic wrote:

I won't bother to list anything because;

1. Devs usually don't listen to me
2. Devs usually don't have a clue how the game really works for me
3. Devs usually balance the game strictly based on forum posts other then mine

Over the years the playerbase posted a LOT of topics like this. They haven't listened before, they rarely listen now, I wouldn't hold my breath thinking they'll start listening now.

Gamma didn't get wiped because players exploited a game mechanic to create turtle islands. Gamma got wiped because Devs didn't listen to the players who tested it on the test-server and explicitely told them it will result in turtle islands.

The only real benefit we've achieved over the years is the test server (which isn't being used by me because broken code is still pushed through to live), and we got rid of the skype-list of privileged closed-beta players influencing development (and we only have their word for it).

so much bitter tears... are you mad?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

No I'm having fun playing a free game, gonna ride this train all the way to the bottom and laugh my a** off. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Syndic wrote:

No I'm having fun playing a free game, gonna ride this train all the way to the bottom and laugh my a** off. lol


I don't blame the Devs for not listening with that attitude.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

The only important attitude when playing a game is to have fun. cool

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

I think one of the largest factors that has killed this game is the toxic enviroment that is allowed to prevade the forums and the in game chats. people push their own agendas and deliberately flaunt the rules simply because the Devs do not have the proper resources to adequetely monitor/enforce their own EULA and many players know this and have taken advantage ot this to push things to the extreme for years, to the point where disrepsctful conduct that should be bannable has become the norm.

Unfortunately the second largest factor is the Devs own disconnect from the game itself and the changes that are introduced ... its clear that changes are introduced on a per idea basis with out thought to a larger picture on how everything is affected down the line in game, and most changes are only tested for correct coding, rather than functionality mechanics for the game itself.  Again its a product of a small Development team that is taxed to the limit.
I could cut you slack for this but its really irrelevant,  in the end its simply the product that is pushed on the consumers that is a patchwork of changes that just don't work well with other changes.

But, I dont really play anymore, so take my opinion as you wish, I don't really care.

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Just to add a possible faction warfare system maybe?  just an idea, but it would involve adding more islands.   But a decent way to fix Gammas is to limit terraforming craziness  ( no turtle islands ) and 2 do something about the resources on them so they are not full self sufficient.  possible adjustments to the material on production could do it.

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Adding new island shouldnt be that much of a problem if you dont need mad advanced things on it, as from what I recall, they can be procedurally made. Everything else for the faction warfare would require coding and balancing, a lot of it I would assume.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Low player retention: Solutions

Norrdec wrote:

Adding new island shouldnt be that much of a problem if you dont need mad advanced things on it, as from what I recall, they can be procedurally made. Everything else for the faction warfare would require coding and balancing, a lot of it I would assume.


Zoom said it takes them 3+ solid weeks to make a single island because they have to create layers, ore landing sites, whatever by hand or something.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!