Topic: Teleport to Terminals ???

I'm sure this topic has come up before.  I am equally sure that there would have been debate on both sides.  And I'm puzzled why such an obviously useful feature is not implemented.  Most games have the equivalent of a Hearthstone, well, EvE's Hearthstone is only activated upon death...

Advantages that I see may not represent the bigger picture:
1) we can turn assignments around more efficiently, rather than slogging slowly to and from from the assignments dots and the terminal.
2) It speeds up game play and solves the issue of boring slow trudging around convoluted maps.

For example, I wrote half this note while auto piloting to an assignment location.  I ran the assignment, then finished this note while auto-trudging back to the terminal.  Now, wouldn't it be more fun to have spent that time actually engaged in the game?  I mean, I spend far more time getting to and from the action, compared to being in the action itself ...

So why can we not teleport directly to terminals or at least 500m away?  At least on Alphas?  Restrictions could be set on Betas and on Gammas when they come back.  Or why are the terminals NOT part of the teleporter system to begin with, as in a "central node" ?

I'm just trying to understand why this limitation exists and why we must trudge all over the map wasting a lot of time that could be spent in the action, rather than meandering to and from the action.

Enlighten me please as I'm sure there is a reason other than "because the Devs say so."

Thanks and I appreciate your comments.

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

To keep you in the game.  You'll soon find the PvE to be very very thin.  You can mine/harvest.  You can artifact scan.  You can shoot NPCs.   You can be sent to do any of those 3 things in a mission.  That's it.  By the way, the travel times have gotten a *LOT* better, but it's still the biggest grind in the game and always has been.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

You make a good point, although if you leave it as it is now on Beta, then I guess it would be the last nail on the coffin for pvp areas.

RIP PERPETUUM

4 (edited by Rex Amelius 2014-07-14 05:55:54)

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

I like the idea of TP from terminal to your mission spawn point, even for Beta. On Alpha you should even get to TP back, but on Beta you have to walk back or drop mobile. Might be good way for some to ninja missions on Beta. And it may not be too hard to ambush someone in the act. You have 3 minutes.

Also, get rid of Armor TPs

Sparking to other games

5 (edited by Mrs Pickerel 2014-07-14 14:01:38)

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Thank you all for your comments so far.

Another thing has become apparent as I have run assignments over the last few days : you cannot make appreciable NIC due to the lengthy travel times, even if your bonus is up at 5.  Assignments are the loser when compared to mining or farming kernels/frags off heavy mechs.

As an example, I had a sweet set up Saturday as I found a Liquizit field very near a spot great for farming heavy mechs.  I set up my Gropho with a Rivelrepper while my Scarab guy sat there sucking up Liq and stockpiling mech drops.  When the Scarab was full - off to recycle and cash in! 

Now I don't always find such a sweet spot, but even without such an optimal situation, assignments are the loser in terms of income mainly due to travel times.  So I don't see a reason to do assignments unless you are farming relations or unless you want to be poor on purpose...

So, I'm back where I started : it would be really nice to be able to teleport back to the terminals with the goal of spending time IN the action rather than traveling to/from the action.  What Rex suggests (teleport to assignment spawn point) would be icing on the cake.  The benefits are many and I'm not seeing any drawbacks to this concept, barring programmer time/expenses.

EDIT :: I should tell you guys that Yojimbo is my mining/repping alt :: Mrs Pickerel (my combat toon) and Yojimbo are the same human.  I should have posted with Yojimbo's account.

6 (edited by Stranger Danger 2014-07-14 16:53:12)

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

you really "get use" to the travel times in game.

also with autopilot now working, and all of alpha 100% safe, autopiloting to terminal (use interact to auto dock) is more or less like a hearthstone with a charge time based on how far you are from terminal.

Make use of autopilot.

Also with your mission farming, are you accounting for the NIC value of those tokens?  Other than reputation grinding, tokens are your reason to do them...otherwise popping a field can next to a decent spawn and farming china style is your best route.

If you are not hording pvp ammo (you shouldn't) just sell the tokens for some decent cash, tokens will come faster the higher up you go in missions anyway, and by the time you can do beacons and need pvp ammo you should have a corporation helping you out...those tokens are your ticket to noob wealthy.

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Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Stranger Danger wrote:

...those tokens are your ticket to noob wealthy.

on a side note, those tokens are then used by the vets to buy countless beacons and gaining several millions of NIC in  a few minutes (according to some topics about how incredible lucrative that is)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Annihilator wrote:
Stranger Danger wrote:

...those tokens are your ticket to noob wealthy.

on a side note, those tokens are then used by the vets to buy countless beacons and gaining several millions of NIC in  a few minutes (according to some topics about how incredible lucrative that is)

Very accurate statement.

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Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Stranger Danger wrote:

you really "get use" to the travel times in game.

also with autopilot now working, and all of alpha 100% safe, autopiloting to terminal (use interact to auto dock) is more or less like a hearthstone with a charge time based on how far you are from terminal. Make use of autopilot.  ...

With respect, I think you just proved my point.  Any time I hear someone say "you'll get used to it" it means that many, if not all people, dislike the feature but must learn to live with it in lieu of a better solution.  Nor has a valid reason of game mechanics/balancing been cited as justification for NOT teleporting to terminals.

I do use autopilot, extensively.  Instead of spending time droning on autopilot, we could be engaged in activities that are far more fun.  Currently, while autopiloting I can:
- do sets with weights
- practice a musical instrument
- trim nose hairs
- study lunar geography

My point is that if I am logged in to the game, I want to actually play the game.  Anything, like teleporting to terminals, that would eliminate the wasted time/droning, would be a very good thing.

10 (edited by Annihilator 2014-07-14 19:05:40)

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

mission revamp is on the todo, with missions beeing distributed on terrain too, not only in terminals.
you don't need to fu**** the most basic game mechanic, just to make missioning easier, when the solution is much simplier.

so,
-removal of T1 loot,
-mission acceptable without walking to a terminal and back
-missions randomly generated, not repeating the same two missions because no dev has time to do 50 different ones per terminal, per faction, per mission level.

why do you need an instant teleport to the terminal, which would then need countless conditions and artifical rules in PvP to not end up as an exploit?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Annihilator wrote:

mission revamp is on the todo, with missions beeing distributed on terrain too, not only in terminals.
you don't need to fu**** the most basic game mechanic, just to make missioning easier, when the solution is much simplier.

so,
-removal of T1 loot,
-mission acceptable without walking to a terminal and back
-missions randomly generated, not repeating the same two missions because no dev has time to do 50 different ones per terminal, per faction, per mission level.

why do you need an instant teleport to the terminal, which would then need countless conditions and artifical rules in PvP to not end up as an exploit?

Thank you for your comments!  I like all of what you said.  Having a somewhat limited perspective is why I floated the idea out for comment.  If indeed the assignments are slated to be improved in the ways you state, then I'm all for it !!!  Something needs to be done to keep action happening.

Right now I'm brewing a batch of beer while my twin Scarabs suck up Liquizit AFK.  Now, I do that because the game allows it.  I would prefer to blow stuff up and get rich doing so.

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

You can do a lot of things while autopiloting.

What you should do however, is exercise patience.

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Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

on another note, just running a few alpha2 missions, lvl4, without maxed mission extensions, i made in 1 hour:
2,330,989 NIC Mission reward
0,461,706 NIC in Common Kernels
0,309,243 NIC in hitech Kernels
1,164,240 NIC in ICS Tokens
0,444,400 NIC in lvl8 Decoder
0,600,950 NIC in blue Plasma
=
5,311,528 NIC, not counting the other less worth loot, neither checking for the highest bidder.

could have done a little more, but the RNG god didn't like me at the fourth run, and the rewards per run would increase even more with the next few runs.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Hell you can farm npcs while you play robocraft.  I been doing it all morning.

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Annihilator wrote:

on another note, just running a few alpha2 missions, lvl4, without maxed mission extensions, i made in 1 hour:
2,330,989 NIC Mission reward
0,461,706 NIC in Common Kernels
0,309,243 NIC in hitech Kernels
1,164,240 NIC in ICS Tokens
0,444,400 NIC in lvl8 Decoder
0,600,950 NIC in blue Plasma
=
5,311,528 NIC, not counting the other less worth loot, neither checking for the highest bidder.

could have done a little more, but the RNG god didn't like me at the fourth run, and the rewards per run would increase even more with the next few runs.

Wow!  At 5 million Nic you could buy a yagel!  And even T3 fit it!

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Maybe a sort of blood spark mechanic but without dying? If you are on your island that your home base is you can start a 3 minute spool up to jump back to terminal?

17 (edited by Rex Amelius 2014-07-15 06:59:30)

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Annihilator wrote:

mission revamp is on the todo, with missions beeing distributed on terrain too, not only in terminals.
you don't need to fu**** the most basic game mechanic, just to make missioning easier, when the solution is much simplier.

so,
-removal of T1 loot,
-mission acceptable without walking to a terminal and back
-missions randomly generated, not repeating the same two missions because no dev has time to do 50 different ones per terminal, per faction, per mission level.

why do you need an instant teleport to the terminal, which would then need countless conditions and artifical rules in PvP to not end up as an exploit?

When is mission revamp ready? 2015?

Randomly generated missions accepted from places other than terminal? So I can accept a RANDOM mission in the south from my location up north?

Afraid a TP from terminal to your RANDOM combat mission will serve as exploit for pvp? Perhaps used in unintended ways but for pvp I'll stick with sparks and IZ thank Mr. PvP pro.

It should be OBVIOUS to Devs that travel time on missions is the NUMBER 1 reason new players quit this game. TP to mission would help a lot.

Sparking to other games

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Annihilator wrote:

on another note, just running a few alpha2 missions, lvl4, without maxed mission extensions, i made in 1 hour:
2,330,989 NIC Mission reward
0,461,706 NIC in Common Kernels
0,309,243 NIC in hitech Kernels
1,164,240 NIC in ICS Tokens
0,444,400 NIC in lvl8 Decoder
0,600,950 NIC in blue Plasma
=
5,311,528 NIC, not counting the other less worth loot, neither checking for the highest bidder.

could have done a little more, but the RNG god didn't like me at the fourth run, and the rewards per run would increase even more with the next few runs.


5 mil in an hour.. and while you don't have 'maxed extensions' you imply you have them high.  FYI, that is *** money.  It's ~20 mil per hour just in plasma at the ball and chain, not counting decoders/kernels/mods/fragments.  Of course, you can't do that solo with 1 account (I use 3, combat/buff&rr/hauler, I've seen people using 5+ there).  And even this is nothing at all compared to several good mining accounts getting Epriton (assuming you can actually sell and the market isn't saturated as ***, which it currently is).

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Rex Amelius wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

mission revamp is on the todo, with missions beeing distributed on terrain too, not only in terminals.
you don't need to fu**** the most basic game mechanic, just to make missioning easier, when the solution is much simplier.

so,
-removal of T1 loot,
-mission acceptable without walking to a terminal and back
-missions randomly generated, not repeating the same two missions because no dev has time to do 50 different ones per terminal, per faction, per mission level.

why do you need an instant teleport to the terminal, which would then need countless conditions and artifical rules in PvP to not end up as an exploit?

When is mission revamp ready? 2015?

Randomly generated missions accepted from places other than terminal? So I can accept a RANDOM mission in the south from my location up north?

Afraid a TP from terminal to your RANDOM combat mission will serve as exploit for pvp? Perhaps used in unintended ways but for pvp I'll stick with sparks and IZ thank Mr. PvP pro.

It should be OBVIOUS to Devs that travel time on missions is the NUMBER 1 reason new players quit this game. TP to mission would help a lot.

It should have been done before Steam.  It should have been done before Gamma (even the first iteration).  The tutorial revamp should have been the first step not the only one.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

20 (edited by Annihilator 2014-07-15 17:39:17)

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Rex Amelius wrote:

Randomly generated missions accepted from places other than terminal? So I can accept a RANDOM mission in the south from my location up north?

Afraid a TP from terminal to your RANDOM combat mission will serve as exploit for pvp? Perhaps used in unintended ways but for pvp I'll stick with sparks and IZ thank Mr. PvP pro.

It should be OBVIOUS to Devs that travel time on missions is the NUMBER 1 reason new players quit this game. TP to mission would help a lot.

don't react to me here, read the DEV blogs, inform yourself about their goals... then direct your feedback about the random mission generator towards them (and without looking for myself, i think i remember that getting missions close to your current location is one of the factors.)

And keep your personal attacks regarding my gaming preferences to yourself. I do not belong to a group that complained about a 3 minute chargeup deployable that made your pvp prey just teleport away to predictable locations on terrain, but now one of the same group says the instant-teleporting without any deployable and activation delay is ok?

Crepitus wrote:

5 mil in an hour.. and while you don't have 'maxed extensions' you imply you have them high.  FYI, that is *** money.  It's ~20 mil per hour just in plasma at the ball and chain, not counting decoders/kernels/mods/fragments.  Of course, you can't do that solo with 1 account (I use 3, combat/buff&rr/hauler, I've seen people using 5+ there).  And even this is nothing at all compared to several good mining accounts getting Epriton (assuming you can actually sell and the market isn't saturated as ***, which it currently is).

ok, when you do 20 million per hour with three agents, with heavy mechs and lots of medium T4 equip involved with farming an npc spawn, not getting any tokens that you can turn into even more millions.
getting 4 millions+ tokens per each agent with t4 fit assaults is a worse income, when you can later do the tokens on your own, considering there is still room to improve? (my mission extension are at lvl6)

i had ~0.5 M NIC payout for each misison run for the missions i did. I know already missions that give me .9M per run with lower effort involved, because lower level.

Yes, its more effort to keep the income rate going with three agents, and if the RNG god throws a artifact scan mission into the pool, or refuses to drop that f*** mission item. But autopilot takes care of the travel of one robot, while the other one waits for the npc respawn, while the third needs manual input.

Crepitus wrote:

It should have been done before Steam.  It should have been done before Gamma (even the first iteration).  The tutorial revamp should have been the first step not the only one.

The first time i talked with the DEVs about a random mission generator, was around a month after i started playing, when the server had an average population of ~5 agents, with at least one beeing a macro miner under a policetower on hokko wink

last but not least:
you can du multiple quotes in one post... with minimal effort. ever tried dualboxing firefox? (or middle mousebutton on "quote", CTRL+a, Ctrl+c, close tab, ctrl+v)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

21 (edited by Crepitus 2014-07-15 19:16:51)

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Annihilator wrote:
Rex Amelius wrote:

Randomly generated missions accepted from places other than terminal? So I can accept a RANDOM mission in the south from my location up north?

Afraid a TP from terminal to your RANDOM combat mission will serve as exploit for pvp? Perhaps used in unintended ways but for pvp I'll stick with sparks and IZ thank Mr. PvP pro.

It should be OBVIOUS to Devs that travel time on missions is the NUMBER 1 reason new players quit this game. TP to mission would help a lot.

don't react to me here, read the DEV blogs, inform yourself about their goals... then direct your feedback about the random mission generator towards them (and without looking for myself, i think i remember that getting missions close to your current location is one of the factors.)

And keep your personal attacks regarding my gaming preferences to yourself. I do not belong to a group that complained about a 3 minute chargeup deployable that made your pvp prey just teleport away to predictable locations on terrain, but now one of the same group says the instant-teleporting without any deployable and activation delay is ok?

Crepitus wrote:

5 mil in an hour.. and while you don't have 'maxed extensions' you imply you have them high.  FYI, that is *** money.  It's ~20 mil per hour just in plasma at the ball and chain, not counting decoders/kernels/mods/fragments.  Of course, you can't do that solo with 1 account (I use 3, combat/buff&rr/hauler, I've seen people using 5+ there).  And even this is nothing at all compared to several good mining accounts getting Epriton (assuming you can actually sell and the market isn't saturated as ***, which it currently is).

ok, when you do 20 million per hour with three agents, with heavy mechs and lots of medium T4 equip involved with farming an npc spawn, not getting any tokens that you can turn into even more millions.
getting 4 millions+ tokens per each agent with t4 fit assaults is a worse income, when you can later do the tokens on your own, considering there is still room to improve? (my mission extension are at lvl6)

i had ~0.5 M NIC payout for each misison run for the missions i did. I know already missions that give me .9M per run with lower effort involved, because lower level.

Yes, its more effort to keep the income rate going with three agents, and if the RNG god throws a artifact scan mission into the pool, or refuses to drop that f*** mission item. But autopilot takes care of the travel of one robot, while the other one waits for the npc respawn, while the third needs manual input.

Crepitus wrote:

It should have been done before Steam.  It should have been done before Gamma (even the first iteration).  The tutorial revamp should have been the first step not the only one.

The first time i talked with the DEVs about a random mission generator, was around a month after i started playing, when the server had an average population of ~5 agents, with at least one beeing a macro miner under a policetower on hokko wink

last but not least:
you can du multiple quotes in one post... with minimal effort. ever tried dualboxing firefox? (or middle mousebutton on "quote", CTRL+a, Ctrl+c, close tab, ctrl+v)

I could but I don't give a *** and you read both anyway smile

EDIT: The only time I have to move when farming a spawn is to send a scarab back to drop *** off and around the field like a gold fish v + g'ing containers til he's full and pressing r+spacebar with auto-target advance toggled on my combat, and of course I autopilot there and back.  I can do this while watching movies easily (ECMs are annoying as *** but *shrug*).  It requires far less effort than your token farming and I can still get faction ammo from destruction SAPs if I want it smile.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

All this discussion has been very helpful for me.

Kinda looks like folks are talking a lot about fastest ways to make NIC utilizing the game mechanics "as is" versus game mods.  Like the idea of running assignments on 3 accts at once ping-pong-ing between autopilot based travel and handling mission objectives.   I'll try this.  But as someone else posted, single acct new players will likely get turned off by travel times, which is exactly what I experienced to start this thread.  I realized quickly that more time was spent traveling than pew pew'ing.  So the sooner the mission revamp happens, the better IMDAO.

I also read in this thread that an arti scan assignment can essentially ruin your income efficiency.  I have my son, who is a math major, working on this.  He's building a spreadsheet that takes the position and distance data from two scan points, does the trigonometry, and generates the two possible exact X Y coordinates to go to.  Our first tries only generated errors, but we will get this working, and once done, arti scanning will become a different ball game that does not rely on intuition at all --> efficiency.

kk fellas - see ya on the firing line !!!

23 (edited by Annihilator 2014-07-16 15:26:09)

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

Yojimbo wrote:

All this discussion has been very helpful for me.

Kinda looks like folks are talking a lot about fastest ways to make NIC utilizing the game mechanics "as is" versus game mods.  Like the idea of running assignments on 3 accts at once ping-pong-ing between autopilot based travel and handling mission objectives.   I'll try this.  But as someone else posted, single acct new players will likely get turned off by travel times, which is exactly what I experienced to start this thread.  I realized quickly that more time was spent traveling than pew pew'ing.  So the sooner the mission revamp happens, the better IMDAO.

PvE is a resource grind. When you do it, you do it either for the lootdrops that you need for production (fragments, kernels) or you do it for the NIC. It's IMHO one of the biggest flaws of this "game" that the DEVs never focused on fun gameplay.

Yojimbo wrote:

I also read in this thread that an arti scan assignment can essentially ruin your income efficiency.  I have my son, who is a math major, working on this.  He's building a spreadsheet that takes the position and distance data from two scan points, does the trigonometry, and generates the two possible exact X Y coordinates to go to.  Our first tries only generated errors, but we will get this working, and once done, arti scanning will become a different ball game that does not rely on intuition at all --> efficiency.

kk fellas - see ya on the firing line !!!

not worth the effort. bring your gescanner accuracy up to 100% and use existing tools (eg. sequer.nl has one online).
It still ruins your flow, because you need to fit a non-combat module on your combat robot for those missions.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

kk guys - I actually was online and actually did a comparison of two main concepts from posts in this thread.

3 boxing Assignments versus Spawn Farming, with proceeds from Tokens/Beacons not yet accounted for.

Assignments : I ran LvL 5 combat with my T4 solo rigged Gropho, and LvL 5 Xport with two Argano's. Yes, there is efficiency to be had because two acct's are auotpiloting while the third is whacking NPCs or scanning or something, thus ameliorating the travel time issues.  But, you have to get through the first 5 assignments to get the max income buffs.  That would be trivial if amortized over 100 assignments.  Trouble is, at the 10th iteration (30 total or 10 each for 3 acct's) I could do no more.  I was burnt out on assignments due to shear boredom.  The good news is that the NIC and tokens flow in like clock work.

Spawn Farming:  set up my T4 Gropho with two active racial hardeners + ECCM and used two RivelReppers (one a basic T1 and the other a real repper maxxed out with T4).  With this set up I can pull the entire field as fast as they spawn and farm non stop.  The only break in the looting is respawn rate and the occasional need to collect the loot with the wimpy Riveler.  So besides many T2 and some T3 mods, the plasma collected is worth crap loads of NIC - way better than the cash from Assignments.  In the current market, I am unable to sell anything - and I'm not kidding.  So it's very hard to say what the loot/recycling is actually worth.

Bottom line : comparing the dependable income+tokens with plasma sales --> Spawn Framing wins hands down on an hour by invested hour basis.

Now trying to compare tokens versus loot is even harder because it's all market driven, hence highly variable.  So the answer is : buy beacons with the tokens and acquire/sell even more plasma !!!  This is what I have not tested out yet but I suspect will turn the tide in favor of assignment running, assuming you can handle the boredom.  Using beacons from assignments make it a hybrid endeavor, some basic cash flow from rewards, but loot/plasma from beacon whacking (spawn farming style).  Weekend is here, so I'll try this out.

Now, to bring this inline with the thread topic : do we need to Teleport to Terminals to make assignments go faster?  Yes and no.  We do need something to keep the action happening compared to autopiloting to and from the action.  I think it's a mistake to design a mission system that requires 3 acct's to maintain constant action.  Teleporting to terminals would improve solo acct assignment running, but as others have stated, the real fix is a (pending) mission revamp.

Spawn farming, as I have done it, could be done with a solo acct, but is simply more efficient with 2-3 accts - and the action is mostly non stop = more pew pew = more fun.  Travel time is a non issue compared to assignments so would not benfit from teleporting to terminals. 

So I've tried to listen to the more experienced players; I tested out what was discussed, and I've said my piece.  Hope you guys have fun out there on Nia !!

Re: Teleport to Terminals ???

the issue i have with spawn farming - its not fun either. Its almost exactly like mining a solid mineral on alpha. a repeatative sequence of locking, activating modules and pulling loot from cargo into field container.
depending on the spawn you do not even need to move around.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear