Topic: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

So I think we can agree that some of the changes that have been made to fix some issues that have arrisen have been less than perfect.

Some examples might be:

The removal of red spawns on alpha

The lack of cans when a bot is destroyed by explosion damage

While these changes were in response to perceived problems in the mechanics what I would suggest is that rather than take up development time creating imperfect fixes the devs just declare them as exploits with people doing it actionable under the EULA.

On a personal note I would roll back both of those changes and just take action against folks that abuse it. Im sure there may be some disagreement big_smile

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

can we do the rollback as far as police towers?
i really miss them. exploiting their weakness could have been fixed with a a few lines of code

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Jita wrote:

what I would suggest is that rather than take up development time creating imperfect fixes the devs just declare them as exploits with people doing it actionable under the EULA.

How much development time do you think would it take to actually enforce this idea? Detecting it, proving it, handling the reports, handling the aftermath of a punishment, etc.

I'll tell you: a lot more.

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Dev team clearly said they would go back to the red/orange npc thing at a later date

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Which is Hungarian for never

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

There's a pattern here;

Get massacred in-game, cry on forum for developers to hurt us in some way.

Nobody even tried to roam Dom while we were doing beacons for weeks. Developers shouldn't be used as a weapon by the weak and cowardly.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Because not wanting someone to ABUSE IN-GAME MECHANICS is all about you, right?


Do you really think anyone would have reacted differently if it would have been [insert random corp name here] instead of you? If you do, get over yourself because not everything is about you.

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Whats abusing in-game mechanics? They're mechanics. You use them. Are you abusing in-game mechanics by fitting support items on a mining robot to be immortal while farming spawns? No. Everyone uses mechanics in different ways. You couldn't do it because we wouldn't let you, so you huffed and puffed and took your ball home to mommy.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

what I would suggest is that rather than take up development time creating imperfect fixes the devs just declare them as exploits with people doing it actionable under the EULA.

How much development time do you think would it take to actually enforce this idea? Detecting it, proving it, handling the reports, handling the aftermath of a punishment, etc.

I'll tell you: a lot more.

Quit being cheap and hire another dev or two or someone to do the heavy lifting. I don't feel bad for you at all because you are the worst about delegating. Just realize you don't know how to manage this wonderful concept for a game and sell it to someone who will do right for it.

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Smokeyii wrote:

Because not wanting someone to ABUSE IN-GAME MECHANICS is all about you, right?


Do you really think anyone would have reacted differently if it would have been [insert random corp name here] instead of you? If you do, get over yourself because not everything is about you.

Dearest player Smokeyii!

Hello and thank you for your valuable feedback.  I want you to understand that I greatly value your opinion and I think you are RIGHT player Smokeyii!  We as a community should not allow Such abuse of in game mechanics!  Those mechanics that were clearly available for everyone for the past two years are ruining this game!  Player Smokeyii thank you!  Thank you for being awesome.  It would be a shame player smokeyii if such corps were allowed to keep such massive stockpiled items from these horrible beacons!  You know what player Smokeyii, I too have done research!  It seems that this horrindish beacons were the foul instruments in the destruction of the economy!  As seen here: http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … challenge/ .  Players such as these flaunting their shear wealth in front of the community should be punished!  I support you in the banning of such individuals as those shown in the pre mentioned "flaunt it to the community in a post on the forums!" forum post!  Player Smokeyii, I hope you know I truly appreciate your feedback and look forward to seeing you in the future!  Have a wonderful day player Smokeyii!

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Syndic wrote:

Whats abusing in-game mechanics? They're mechanics. You use them. Are you abusing in-game mechanics by fitting support items on a mining robot to be immortal while farming spawns? No. Everyone uses mechanics in different ways. You couldn't do it because we wouldn't let you, so you huffed and puffed and took your ball home to mommy.


Because doing tons of beacons with plasma bombs in arkhes is on the same level as using a indy bot as remote rep.
Again with trying to bring us down to your level.

And because I have to... again... i'll state...

This...

Isn't....

About...

You...

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Gwyndor wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

what I would suggest is that rather than take up development time creating imperfect fixes the devs just declare them as exploits with people doing it actionable under the EULA.

How much development time do you think would it take to actually enforce this idea? Detecting it, proving it, handling the reports, handling the aftermath of a punishment, etc.

I'll tell you: a lot more.

Quit being cheap and hire another dev or two or someone to do the heavy lifting. I don't feel bad for you at all because you are the worst about delegating. Just realize you don't know how to manage this wonderful concept for a game and sell it to someone who will do right for it.



+9001

13 (edited by Ville 2014-07-05 00:06:54)

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Smokeyii wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Whats abusing in-game mechanics? They're mechanics. You use them. Are you abusing in-game mechanics by fitting support items on a mining robot to be immortal while farming spawns? No. Everyone uses mechanics in different ways. You couldn't do it because we wouldn't let you, so you huffed and puffed and took your ball home to mommy.


Because doing tons of beacons with plasma bombs in arkhes is on the same level as using a indy bot as remote rep.
Again with trying to bring us down to your level.

And because I have to... again... i'll state...

This...

Isn't....

About...

You...

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … challenge/

Oh look player Smokeyii, people used plasma bombs over a year ago player Smokeyii..  You are right!  We must rid the game of such vile vermin!  Especially those that there is video proof!

@Developer Zoom, Dear player Smokeyii's demands should really be taken serious!  Those with Video proof should be treated as an exploit!

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

If it bothered you that much, why not roam Dom and come stop us?

We dislike you making money on Alpha with beacons and macroes, so we're making it more difficult for you. We got plenty of accounts making money at the same time on other islands, don't worry. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Gwyndor wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

what I would suggest is that rather than take up development time creating imperfect fixes the devs just declare them as exploits with people doing it actionable under the EULA.

How much development time do you think would it take to actually enforce this idea? Detecting it, proving it, handling the reports, handling the aftermath of a punishment, etc.

I'll tell you: a lot more.

Quit being cheap and hire another dev or two or someone to do the heavy lifting. I don't feel bad for you at all because you are the worst about delegating. Just realize you don't know how to manage this wonderful concept for a game and sell it to someone who will do right for it.


Point of fact: this guy has played the game for about 3 weeks.

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Tund Bungler wrote:

Point of fact: this guy has played the game for about 3 weeks.

so he has posted on the forums 5 weeks before he started playing?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

what I would suggest is that rather than take up development time creating imperfect fixes the devs just declare them as exploits with people doing it actionable under the EULA.

How much development time do you think would it take to actually enforce this idea? Detecting it, proving it, handling the reports, handling the aftermath of a punishment, etc.

I'll tell you: a lot more.

What if I told you that using current mechanics and tactics that some deem to be 'economic warfare' its perfectly possible to strip an islands NPC spawns so that nothing spawns on the island.

You would do this by using something with an ewar mod to drag a single mob from a spawn and then killing the remainder. All you then need is something with a lot of head slots to take over once they are dragged there and hold that single mob in position. This would mean that a single one of all the spawns would remain in the same place and nowhere else on the island would have NPC's.

Now are you going to do the same thing you did with beacons getting took over and say 'move somewhere else' with that tactic?

What you dont seem to get and over and over keeps getting demonstrated is that people in this game will do whatever they can outside of the mechanics to gain advantage, to annoy other users, to grief people or just to have some lols at the games expense. For every fix we see another hole is found. We have seen this with:

Police towers

Scout arkhe's

Alt accounts

Insurance fraud

Beacon pits

Missions

Plasma bombs

The list could go on.

What needs resolving is the spirit of people's interactions with the game and each other. For that you need something within the EULA that recognises deliberate breaking of the game with bugs or mechanics that are not intended or gameplay that could be considered griefing is actionable and considered an exploit. Not reporting it would be actionable too.

You just cant keep up with the playerbase in a sandbox, they will always find a way.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

18 (edited by Syndic 2014-07-05 14:01:00)

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

TL;DR

"Zoom please please please ban them all because we cant X"

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Syndic wrote:

TL;DR

"Zoom please please please ban them all because we cant X"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ4kSCXf1GM

but seriously, it's everyone playing now and in the past (and future) who has done this. It needs to be dealt with.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

The only thing that needs to be dealt with is the constant expectation that the Developers will intervene and change game mechanics because someone doesn't play the way you want them to play.

If I want kill mobs, I'll go kill mobs as I damn please. If I want to ewar mobs, I'll go ewar mobs as I damn please too.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

21 (edited by Aye Pod 2014-07-05 16:20:59)

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Be careful what you wish for when making those tickets. big_smile

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Syndic wrote:

The only thing that needs to be dealt with is the constant expectation that the Developers will intervene and change game mechanics because someone doesn't play the way you want them to play.

If I want kill mobs, I'll go kill mobs as I damn please. If I want to ewar mobs, I'll go ewar mobs as I damn please too.


Again, this isn't about you... it's about everyone. Remember when there was a bug for a day that the factory was producing prototypes? I reported it the moment I found out about it. Thankfully I wasn't the first person to report it even.

Can you imagine, a bug like that, and no one reporting it? These are the things we're talking about here. Keep thinking this is all about you though, it's pretty funny watching you squirm.

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Aye Pod wrote:

Jita

Shooting mobs is not an abuse of game mechanics and definitely not an exploit. Just because you are standing next to them doesnt magically make them yours and I dont give a damn what definition of griefing you find on Google its not that either. You need to figure out that the consequences of what you do on beta follows you to alpha as well.

I know its not, that's just being a ***. I didn't mention that in the post though. I've heard about American literacy rates and don't want to bash you too hard but I hear there are some great courses on completing high school equivalency tests that you can do in later life. Good luck in the future and remember - street smarts can be just as useful.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Work as a team.

The End.









Jita wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:
Jita wrote:

what I would suggest is that rather than take up development time creating imperfect fixes the devs just declare them as exploits with people doing it actionable under the EULA.

How much development time do you think would it take to actually enforce this idea? Detecting it, proving it, handling the reports, handling the aftermath of a punishment, etc.

I'll tell you: a lot more.

What if I told you that using current mechanics and tactics that some deem to be 'economic warfare' its perfectly possible to strip an islands NPC spawns so that nothing spawns on the island.

You would do this by using something with an ewar mod to drag a single mob from a spawn and then killing the remainder. All you then need is something with a lot of head slots to take over once they are dragged there and hold that single mob in position. This would mean that a single one of all the spawns would remain in the same place and nowhere else on the island would have NPC's.

Now are you going to do the same thing you did with beacons getting took over and say 'move somewhere else' with that tactic?

What you dont seem to get and over and over keeps getting demonstrated is that people in this game will do whatever they can outside of the mechanics to gain advantage, to annoy other users, to grief people or just to have some lols at the games expense. For every fix we see another hole is found. We have seen this with:

Police towers

Scout arkhe's

Alt accounts

Insurance fraud

Beacon pits

Missions

Plasma bombs

The list could go on.

What needs resolving is the spirit of people's interactions with the game and each other. For that you need something within the EULA that recognises deliberate breaking of the game with bugs or mechanics that are not intended or gameplay that could be considered griefing is actionable and considered an exploit. Not reporting it would be actionable too.

You just cant keep up with the playerbase in a sandbox, they will always find a way.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

25 (edited by Aye Pod 2014-07-05 16:26:25)

Re: Declare exploit rather than knee jerk change

Jita wrote:

stuffs

Youre right. Forgot what QQ post of yours I was on.

Glad to see that you are fitting right in with the whiny *** coalition. Seems you have found your place.

Carry on