Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Ville wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Ville wrote:

You don't understand economic warfare.

I understand it better than you think and if there is an economic war to be had in Perp is doesn't revolve around HDT and Titan Ore.

If my spare computer can generate 100 million Nic in a 24 hour cycle.  There's nothing with me completely doing it afk?  I can do more once fast extract gets L10 and mining skills on the alts are at 10.

The infinite orders are too high.  You can literally generate these values in 100% safety.

Yea, we get it.

Unlimited Scarab Fleets, multiple 10's and you have the ability to do what you don't need to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO23WBji_Z0
About sum it up?

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Skydell wrote:

the only way to obtain them is by searching for artifacts.

Searching for artifacts =/= scanning for artifacts.

Skydell wrote:

Here we go with the gerneric, EVE come back "you are doing it wrong" slappy happy claims of failed leadership and other gray area claims of blame.

I see why Zoom keeps deleting these.

Oh, so you are just a troll with no argument to bring to the table and support your statements? No wonder you aren't going anywhere with your claims.

I believe pvp could be very exciting and the game has what it takes. But this is game is ruined and we all know  by who, it´s by corps like CiR, -77- and PHM. - by Fu ManChu

28 (edited by Crepitus 2014-06-29 00:38:59)

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Skydell wrote:

There is no economy. When was the last time CIR or PHM bought a Robot?

It's all done in corp and it isn't even a bad thing. It's just a different way of doing things.

Very few players can AFK field 8 Scarab and if that only got you 30 mill? It isn't a problem.


The corps don't, but the players in those corps often do.  As for afk mining, meh, it has inflated the prices of all the tile-changing ores and plants because none of the vets want to do it, why petition to screw the newbies who like their income + missions mining titan or whatever?

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Weedy wrote:
Skydell wrote:

the only way to obtain them is by searching for artifacts.

Searching for artifacts =/= scanning for artifacts.

Skydell wrote:

Here we go with the gerneric, EVE come back "you are doing it wrong" slappy happy claims of failed leadership and other gray area claims of blame.

I see why Zoom keeps deleting these.

Oh, so you are just a troll with no argument to bring to the table and support your statements? No wonder you aren't going anywhere with your claims.

How many replies do I need to provide? How many points can you ignore to say that? How much spin do you need to spurge to make this a debate? Searching, scanning, seriously? That's the backbone of your argument? Ignore that you still need all the other aspects of Industrial to make all that Titan useful.

Ignore the one key word that is missing in this entire flail of misinformation. The reason it isn't an issue.

FUN

Every other gamer out there wants to log in to a video game to have FUN. Not to find mind bending ways to make the game dysfunctional and eye bleeding, brain bleed simulations in online collaboration. It's only an issue in your mind. Really.

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Ville wrote:

The infinite orders are too high.


Lower it then, I am certainly going to have a good time with insurance payouts. big_smile

RIP PERPETUUM

31 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2014-06-29 11:34:57)

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Annihilator wrote:

red npcs have been removed from alpha more then a year ago, because someone said, noobs die to those npcs and ragequit over that.

over time, the same guys who said that, now complain that alpha is afk mining heaven, and some even wonder why there is no real economy, when PVE is supposed to be loss-free, and PvP can only be done when you are able to produce everything on your own (oh, evil corp internal buy orders!), because the alpha market won't supply your demands nor does pvp pay out the currency for that.

.......


Most of the vet players I know said back when that first happened that it was a bad move to make. Sure it "stops" players dragging red spawns onto miners but instead of fixing that issue the DEVs just make all spawns orange. Now Alpha is 100% safe from players AND AI.
IMO 100% safe from any risk is bad. If its not ricks from players then it should be from NPCs in some way.

Ville wrote:

The infinite orders are too high.

I dont get why we have NPC orders at all. every thing else nearly on the market is player generated.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

if i remember that correctly, the infinite titan and HDT buy orders are left-overs from the last itteration of tutorials, and noone reportet them after implementation of the new tutorial island.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Infinite orders artificially inflate the price of the basic ores.

It's more profitable to mine Titan or HDT then any other ore barring Epriton, and even then it's 25% less effective then mining Epriton. In perfect safety on Alpha.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

The market does seem to have enough player orders to allow the removal of the NPC orders. However I think that would be a too sudden change, so their prices have been reduced for now.

35 (edited by Skydell 2014-06-29 23:00:34)

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

DEV Zoom wrote:

The market does seem to have enough player orders to allow the removal of the NPC orders. However I think that would be a too sudden change, so their prices have been reduced for now.

Feel free to remove all Ore seeds. These are not the faucets people use and nothing I argued had anything to do with Seed sales. If this was the core of this complaint, it's a non starter.

Do it in process like you are, to see if a new and improved exploit shows up in ie. insurance but the seed sale thing was never able to compete with even ground level plasma farming.

- Also, if I ever do find myself AFK farming in a Scarab it will be Liquizit and I will be doing it to make stuff.

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

DEV Zoom wrote:

The market does seem to have enough player orders to allow the removal of the NPC orders. However I think that would be a too sudden change, so their prices have been reduced for now.

Thank you Zoom!

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Skydell: yes it's pretty obvious that this wasn't "wrecking the economy" since there are a LOT of player buy orders way above the price of the infinite orders. Still, the idea to lower them or completely remove them at some point is warranted.

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Theres no supply and demand when theres a safety net, so over abundance of the ore won't push the prices down.

Are you planning on reducing the NPC buy orders for T1 modules and lights and assaults too?

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

I cannot stop buying at 0.21 and wait for it to drop to 0.1 due to oversupply because there's an infinite sell order.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

40 (edited by Solishian 2014-06-30 10:48:05)

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Why not link the prices to the amount of whatever you want to sell to the npc?
The more you sell within a certain timeframe  (day, week, month...), the less you get in the end.
Sure, there are still players with x accounts, but even they will reach their limit at some point.

A new player will still be able to get NIC out of it, but a "vet" player with a whole fleet at his disposal will not be able to "make unlimited NIC out of thin air" day after day.

41 (edited by Burial 2014-06-30 21:52:33)

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

DEV Zoom wrote:

Skydell: yes it's pretty obvious that this wasn't "wrecking the economy" since there are a LOT of player buy orders way above the price of the infinite orders.

Exactly this. IF it were such an abused problem, there wouldn't be any buy orders left above infinities.

Either way, I don't care if the orders stay or go.

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Ville wrote:

Unlimited hdt and Titan orders need to go.  Players are placing afk scarabs and sequers over night on the fields and selling to a bottomless order!  The market needs inflation and deflation and these orders are keeping it up!  I kept 8 scarabs on a field overnight and cashed out 30 million nic this morning!  I did the same thing at work!  This is wrecking the economy!

All I see is a lack of possibilities to gank your *** off the mining field.

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Kim Cho wrote:
Ville wrote:

Unlimited hdt and Titan orders need to go.  Players are placing afk scarabs and sequers over night on the fields and selling to a bottomless order!  The market needs inflation and deflation and these orders are keeping it up!  I kept 8 scarabs on a field overnight and cashed out 30 million nic this morning!  I did the same thing at work!  This is wrecking the economy!

All I see is a lack of possibilities to gank your *** off the mining field.

Player Kim Cho, Hello!

I would first like to point out that I value your positive and intriguing Feed back.  I look forward to a highly constructive conversation to you which leads to many spin off discussions about why alpha minerals are so plentiful.  I would like to ask though player Kim Cho.  How do you "ghank your *** off the mining field"?  Even if you began mining at the edge of a mineral field my 8 scarabs are still pulling more than a Riveler MK2 w/ fast extract nexus.  Player Kim Cho, just this morning I returned back into station with 130 Million HDT that was off loaded into corp storage.  I am at 1.5 Billion just in a 9 to 12 day cycle player Kim Cho!  Completely afk mind you.  Player Kim Cho, I feel this kind of intake is far exceeding what should be allowed to happen.  Player Kim Cho, if the current trends continue the mineral market will push to an all time low for ore prices.  Thanks to wonderful Developer Zoom who lowered the inifinte buy orders(leaky NIC faucet) the minerals will now reflect supply and demand!  I hope you understand what I am talking about Player Kim Cho!  I like wise value your feedback and look forward to discussing wonderful ideas you have in the future.  Take care and be safe! o/

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Ville wrote:
Kim Cho wrote:
Ville wrote:

Unlimited hdt and Titan orders need to go.  Players are placing afk scarabs and sequers over night on the fields and selling to a bottomless order!  The market needs inflation and deflation and these orders are keeping it up!  I kept 8 scarabs on a field overnight and cashed out 30 million nic this morning!  I did the same thing at work!  This is wrecking the economy!

All I see is a lack of possibilities to gank your *** off the mining field.

Player Kim Cho, Hello!

I would first like to point out that I value your positive and intriguing Feed back.  I look forward to a highly constructive conversation to you which leads to many spin off discussions about why alpha minerals are so plentiful.  I would like to ask though player Kim Cho.  How do you "ghank your *** off the mining field"?  Even if you began mining at the edge of a mineral field my 8 scarabs are still pulling more than a Riveler MK2 w/ fast extract nexus.  Player Kim Cho, just this morning I returned back into station with 130 Million HDT that was off loaded into corp storage.  I am at 1.5 Billion just in a 9 to 12 day cycle player Kim Cho!  Completely afk mind you.  Player Kim Cho, I feel this kind of intake is far exceeding what should be allowed to happen.  Player Kim Cho, if the current trends continue the mineral market will push to an all time low for ore prices.  Thanks to wonderful Developer Zoom who lowered the inifinte buy orders(leaky NIC faucet) the minerals will now reflect supply and demand!  I hope you understand what I am talking about Player Kim Cho!  I like wise value your feedback and look forward to discussing wonderful ideas you have in the future.  Take care and be safe! o/

I only read 3 answers of yours and god, it already pisses me off. Good job.

Anyway.

I understand what you are saying, but I was referring to the point, that it shouldn't be possible to afk-mine that excessively in the first place.
Alpha is too safe in my opinion.

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Solishian wrote:

Why not link the prices to the amount of whatever you want to sell to the npc?
The more you sell within a certain timeframe  (day, week, month...), the less you get in the end.
Sure, there are still players with x accounts, but even they will reach their limit at some point.

A new player will still be able to get NIC out of it, but a "vet" player with a whole fleet at his disposal will not be able to "make unlimited NIC out of thin air" day after day.


I like this idea and think it would work great to stop people from just Ming the *** out of one island and killing all the buy orders down to infinite and then still getting an ok price. Have it scale based on volume sold to infinite buy orders according to individual stations.

Ex. Infinites are buying loads in A station and then only a tiny amount in B station. The prices in B would be higher than in A. This would also help out with making hauling a viable trade. This would be similar to the mechanic of buying plasma on alpha and selling on beta. I also think beta should have buy orders for raw materials at a higher % than alpha

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Can someone please explain if there is a valid reason for transport bots to be able to fit miner modules. Wouldn't it solve the AFK mining problem if you would remove that option? Or am I missing something here?

Of course Agent Ville would still be able to mine AFK with 8 Rivelers but this would require a macro or something to empty the cargo into a can which is against the EULA and could get him banned.

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Buc Cankiller wrote:

Can someone please explain if there is a valid reason for transport bots to be able to fit miner modules. Wouldn't it solve the AFK mining problem if you would remove that option? Or am I missing something here?

Of course Agent Ville would still be able to mine AFK with 8 Rivelers but this would require a macro or something to empty the cargo into a can which is against the EULA and could get him banned.

i am using my hauler for RR support, which wouldn'T be possible if they would remove the ability to fit INDSUTRIAL modules on an INDUSTRIAL robot.

and when gamma is back, that industrial slot is eventually used for terraforming or construction modules, and thats a very important factor.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Annihilator wrote:
Buc Cankiller wrote:

Can someone please explain if there is a valid reason for transport bots to be able to fit miner modules. Wouldn't it solve the AFK mining problem if you would remove that option? Or am I missing something here?

Of course Agent Ville would still be able to mine AFK with 8 Rivelers but this would require a macro or something to empty the cargo into a can which is against the EULA and could get him banned.

i am using my hauler for RR support, which wouldn'T be possible if they would remove the ability to fit INDSUTRIAL modules on an INDUSTRIAL robot.

and when gamma is back, that industrial slot is eventually used for terraforming or construction modules, and thats a very important factor.

What a load of bollocks.

There's no need for arm slots on haulers at all.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Jita wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
Buc Cankiller wrote:

Can someone please explain if there is a valid reason for transport bots to be able to fit miner modules. Wouldn't it solve the AFK mining problem if you would remove that option? Or am I missing something here?

Of course Agent Ville would still be able to mine AFK with 8 Rivelers but this would require a macro or something to empty the cargo into a can which is against the EULA and could get him banned.

i am using my hauler for RR support, which wouldn'T be possible if they would remove the ability to fit INDSUTRIAL modules on an INDUSTRIAL robot.

and when gamma is back, that industrial slot is eventually used for terraforming or construction modules, and thats a very important factor.

What a load of bollocks.

There's no need for arm slots on haulers at all.

Care to elaborate?

Re: Seriously Ore Abuse

Annihilator wrote:
Buc Cankiller wrote:

Can someone please explain if there is a valid reason for transport bots to be able to fit miner modules. Wouldn't it solve the AFK mining problem if you would remove that option? Or am I missing something here?

Of course Agent Ville would still be able to mine AFK with 8 Rivelers but this would require a macro or something to empty the cargo into a can which is against the EULA and could get him banned.

i am using my hauler for RR support, which wouldn'T be possible if they would remove the ability to fit INDSUTRIAL modules on an INDUSTRIAL robot.

and when gamma is back, that industrial slot is eventually used for terraforming or construction modules, and thats a very important factor.

That's a valid point. I haven't thought about RR as I don't multibox and have always played solo. Thanks for putting that out.

Can there be negative bonuses applied to certain modules? If so, they could apply a huge penalty for miner module cycle time.