Re: Gamma revamp testing

Ville wrote:

Do Interference emitters effect turrtes?  =?

last time i tested that, two years ago, they did pretty well.

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277 (edited by Gremrod 2014-06-25 17:56:25)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Burial wrote:

Anything around a base should be shot in the face with a handful of turrets and it's fine, but anything outside the base should be free for everyone. I think the paradigm for gamma development should be shifted from owning an island to owning an outpost on an island. If anyone wanders outside their protective structures, he should be free-for-all with no hand-holding.

If they make it so someone can't TF in the TPs etc. Then you are free to roam any gamma island.

I can remember being open to the world out side of the BOS base on DB.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Gamma revamp testing

with the restriction of the slope only blocking mechs and heavy mechs - you can still roam all around.
With walls beeing shoot-able without the interference emitter workaround, even assaults can get them down in 51 volleys max.

(btw, will the IF beacon get back their no-los mechanic when walls are shootable directly?)

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279

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

Oh I see, I have misunderstood you. But how would throwing wall seeds around help with that? As far as I know the range of the wall compiler module isn't that long either, and I don't think we should allow building walls from 500+ meters away.

I walk my lithus mk2 holding the wall tiles to the edge of the turret range, It throws one wall tile (upto 100M) in front of me.  The wile compile locks onto it.  Builds it.

I then walk my lithus up 100M, throw a tile another 100 M THROUGH the built wall, and walk the compiler upto the wall and compile the other wall, and continue this process until I am close enough to attack the turrets.

Like little bunkers used to continuously walked up closer and closer to the base.

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

I see. I'm not sure that this tactic will be all that efficient or needed with the rebalanced turrets, but I'll keep it in mind.

281

Re: Gamma revamp testing

I'm just used to old terraform mechanics.

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282

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Thanks!

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

Promoted more features into the first post:

  • Because of the terraform limitations we need to modify mineral spawning, since there will be locations that you won't be able to reach in any way. Currently the idea is to make minerals despawn after a set time and let them respawn according to the current rules.

  • Turret balance / damage reduction.

  • Deployable walls could be destroyed by normal weapons, but the damage would be propagated along the wall to multiple neighboring wall tiles. This would make it harder to just simply cut a hole into a wall. Of course this would affect beta islands too.

  • Gates on the wall. The current idea is to have a 3x3 tile deployable object that has a simple open/close switch. The gate object would need to be harder to destroy than a wall tile. Access control would be relation-based.

  • If a friendly attacks a building, all the turrets in the same network need to turn on him.

  • No degradation of concrete and wall tiles within areas claimed by buildings. They still take damage as normally.

  • More variation in the topology of gamma islands: archipelago type zones, less symmetrical layout, etc.

  • Make single-tile terraforming more user-friendly. Height display for tiles for comparison purposes to allow for precise structures.

I think this is now pretty close to what we'd like to achieve for now, regarding basic mechanics.

Also, removed highway nodes as it has now its own topic, and it's not a must for the reopening of gammas.

284 (edited by Gremrod 2014-06-25 21:21:01)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:
  • Turret balance / damage reduction.

What about turret range? Does it fall under turret balance?

If not, then do you guys think that turrets that can lock and fire / out range any heavy mech in game seems a bit too much?

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Like +1




DEV Zoom wrote:

Promoted more features into the first post:

  • Because of the terraform limitations we need to modify mineral spawning, since there will be locations that you won't be able to reach in any way. Currently the idea is to make minerals despawn after a set time and let them respawn according to the current rules.

  • Turret balance / damage reduction.

  • Deployable walls could be destroyed by normal weapons, but the damage would be propagated along the wall to multiple neighboring wall tiles. This would make it harder to just simply cut a hole into a wall. Of course this would affect beta islands too.

  • Gates on the wall. The current idea is to have a 3x3 tile deployable object that has a simple open/close switch. The gate object would need to be harder to destroy than a wall tile. Access control would be relation-based.

  • If a friendly attacks a building, all the turrets in the same network need to turn on him.

  • No degradation of concrete and wall tiles within areas claimed by buildings. They still take damage as normally.

  • More variation in the topology of gamma islands: archipelago type zones, less symmetrical layout, etc.

  • Make single-tile terraforming more user-friendly. Height display for tiles for comparison purposes to allow for precise structures.

I think this is now pretty close to what we'd like to achieve for now, regarding basic mechanics.

Also, removed highway nodes as it has now its own topic, and it's not a must for the reopening of gammas.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Gremrod wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:
  • Turret balance / damage reduction.

What about turret range? Don't you guys think that turrets that can lock and fire / out range any heavy mech in game seems a bit too much?

which ones are that?

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

Annihilator wrote:
Gremrod wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:
  • Turret balance / damage reduction.

What about turret range? Don't you guys think that turrets that can lock and fire / out range any heavy mech in game seems a bit too much?

which ones are that?

The high tech turrets that are boosted.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Yes, turret range falls under that balance too.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Removed this one as it will be covered by the no terraform/build areas.

[*] Terminals cannot be deployed within a certain radius of teleports. Suggested radius: 3km.[/*]

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

Yes, turret range falls under that balance too.

Thanks for the information.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Gremrod wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:
  • Turret balance / damage reduction.

What about turret range? Does it fall under turret balance?

If not, then do you guys think that turrets that can lock and fire / out range any heavy mech in game seems a bit too much?

If the Gamma islands will be more accessible (hopefully) I think Range is a far more important issue than damage. Range is what dictates where one can and cannot navigate.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

The (laser) turrets, even the unboosted T1's IMHO need to be able to shoot at targets with the maximumg range a single heavy mech can reach, or else they can be shot sniped down with ease.

though, i don't understand why the SENSOR booster modules grant a stack-able OPTIMUM range bonus, when heavy mechs alread need more then 4 Range extender just to get our of its base-optimum range.

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

Annihilator wrote:

The (laser) turrets, even the unboosted T1's IMHO need to be able to shoot at targets with the maximumg range a single heavy mech can reach, or else they can be shot sniped down with ease.

though, i don't understand why the SENSOR booster modules grant a stack-able OPTIMUM range bonus, when heavy mechs alread need more then 4 Range extender just to get our of its base-optimum range.


Thats a bit over the top. The gamma bases turrets are there to assist you with the defense and not do it for your.
If someone fits for all range just to be countered by a T1 turret? Thats bad and against what the devs want to do.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Best idea ever - I know im out of pace with this testing but this caugh tmy eye


■ Terraformed landscape will slowly degrade to the original terrain with time, but this only affects areas that are outside of a certain radius of buildings (ie. unclaimed land). Suggested radius: 300m

Re: Gamma revamp testing

I agree with Norrdec, but at the same time, does someone have to be there 24/7 protecting it or get his turrets cleared out daily? Are turrets going to go to reinforced mode too?

Balancing turrets so they are good in all situations is hard, good luck.

By the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3u_lD38kvk

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Afaik, turrets will get reinforced too. While T2/T3 have to be valid against long-range bots (either boosted or not), T1 shouldn't.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

297 (edited by Burial 2014-06-26 12:37:24)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

If it goes to reinforced mode, then it's good. Devs, can you point out what exactly you are after with the turret balance? I could chip in with what I know.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Yes, turrets will get an emergency mode too.

In my opinion turrets should ideally target heavy robots first if possible and change targets when they are LoS blocked. Their damage and range should be reduced, but as Anni pointed out the range should not go below the point where they could be freely sniped. We're working on their AI too, we're trying to move over as much as we can from the new NPC AI, so they will have the same threat assessment and stuff.

299

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

Yes, turrets will get an emergency mode too.

In my opinion turrets should ideally target heavy robots first if possible and change targets when they are LoS blocked. Their damage and range should be reduced, but as Anni pointed out the range should not go below the point where they could be freely sniped. We're working on their AI too, we're trying to move over as much as we can from the new NPC AI, so they will have the same threat assessment and stuff.

The behaviour of turrets is actually more important than their stats. You could triple the damage and if they still act *** then they won’t be as effective as they should be. Better to reduce their effectiness individually and make them act better collectively.

They would do this by:

Turrets should focus fire dependent upon LOS.

Fire priority:

For damage turrets I would have their focus dictated by incoming damage focusing on the most damage first and if no damage coming in focusing on the most ewar first. The key to damage is focus fire.

For ewar turrets I would focus on the most ewar first, anything using remote modules second and if no ewar the most damage. The key to ewar is only placing two of any kind of ewar on a target and then spreading the rest out.

Intelligence:

If firing on one target is not getting a result in a reasonable time they should switch priorities periodically switching from one to three priorities of fire

Ewar turrets should use LOS for neutralisers so they don’t waste energy

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

Annihilator wrote:

The (laser) turrets, even the unboosted T1's IMHO need to be able to shoot at targets with the maximumg range a single heavy mech can reach, or else they can be shot sniped down with ease.

though, i don't understand why the SENSOR booster modules grant a stack-able OPTIMUM range bonus, when heavy mechs alread need more then 4 Range extender just to get our of its base-optimum range.

I don't have a problem with them matching. They should not be able to out range heavy mechs. The only thing that should be able to out range heavy mechs would be the next size mech with arties.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23