Topic: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

I was doing a little theorycrafting on my current missile assault versus a missile mech and it seems that the assault will be completely useless.  I'm sure I haven't considered all the angles so feel free to educate me (as if I could stop you). smile

Granted, medium missiles have a high chance of missing an assault but given that their base damage—which begins at double that of light missiles and will easily approach TRIPLE DAMAGE with skills—will more than compensate for the lower hit chance.  Add in the mech's extra missile slot and increased armor and it becomes ridiculous.

And as if the damage wasn't enough, then comes the even bigger problem of range.  The mech's medium missiles have a base optimal range of 330 meters versus the small missile's 150 m.  This is more than double and with skills will reach TRIPLE the range of an assault.  If an assault does manage to survive that barrage and get within range of the mech, he will then face the short range missiles with a base damage that is triple that of light missiles and will EXCEED QUADRUPLE DAMAGE with skills.

I know this game was in beta for a long time so there must be a lot of players with PvP experience in mixed assault/mech battles.  Please tell me that I am wrong?

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

raykor wrote:

Please tell me that I am wrong?

Ok.

You are wrong.

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

Simple answer is "No" to the question: "Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?"

Assaults and other robots all have their roles in game even when mechs are on the field.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

You got the short answers already,
here are the detailed ones:

raykor wrote:

Granted, medium missiles have a high chance of missing an assault

the chance to miss for missiles is independant of the size of the target. The always have 10% "chance to miss" minus 1% per rank in "missile guidance"

raykor wrote:

but given that their base damage—which begins at double that of light missiles...

given the fact, that without extensions, a medium missile will do only 40% of the damage against an assault, 30% on a small bot and 27% against an EWAR Bot...

raykor wrote:

... and will easily approach TRIPLE DAMAGE with skills—will more than compensate for the lower hit chance.  Add in the mech's extra missile slot and increased armor and it becomes ridiculous.

And as if the damage wasn't enough, then comes the even bigger problem of range.  The mech's medium missiles have a base optimal range of 330 meters versus the small missile's 150 m.  This is more than double and with skills will reach TRIPLE the range of an assault.  If an assault does manage to survive that barrage and get within range of the mech, he will then face the short range missiles with a base damage that is triple that of light missiles and will EXCEED QUADRUPLE DAMAGE with skills.

I know this game was in beta for a long time so there must be a lot of players with PvP experience in mixed assault/mech battles.  Please tell me that I am wrong?

... everything else in your post is way off the reality.
not to forget, that a waspish has a range bonus and can shoot its small missiles on longer ranges then a mech can shoot with short range medium missiles.

last but not least, with a little investment in a certain extension, a small missile will always have a 10% damage bonus against mechs (like any other small weapon)

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

Gremrod wrote:

Assaults and other robots all have their roles in game even when mechs are on the field.

Nice to hear (seriously) but more details would be helpful.

Annihilator wrote:

the chance to miss for missiles is independant of the size of the target. The always have 10% "chance to miss" minus 1% per rank in "missile guidance"

Really?  I am aware of the 10% chance-to-miss for missiles which can be reduced with the Missile Guidance skill, but I could have sworn I read somewhere that mechs generally have a built-in chance-to-miss against smaller bots (something to do with their surface hit size).

Annihilator wrote:

given the fact, that without extensions, a medium missile will do only 40% of the damage against an assault, 30% on a small bot and 27% against an EWAR Bot...

Huh?  When I look at the stats for missles it shows x amount of some damage type.  Are you saying that medium weapons have a built-in negative damage modifier towards smaller bots?  Or does it have something to do with their larger "explosion size"?


Annihilator wrote:

... everything else in your post is way off the reality.

Hmm.  The huge range advantage still sounds like a significant advantage but I guess I'll see.

Annihilator wrote:

last but not least, with a little investment in a certain extension, a small missile will always have a 10% damage bonus against mechs (like any other small weapon)

Nice.  I haven't seen this skill yet but I better take a closer look.

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

raykor wrote:

Really?  I am aware of the 10% chance-to-miss for missiles which can be reduced with the Missile Guidance skill, but I could have sworn I read somewhere that mechs generally have a built-in chance-to-miss against smaller bots (something to do with their surface hit size).

That's for Lasers and EM weapons only. What missles have is reduced damage to smaller bots. But the hit chance stays the same.

raykor wrote:

Huh?  When I look at the stats for missles it shows x amount of some damage type.  Are you saying that medium weapons have a built-in negative damage modifier towards smaller bots?  Or does it have something to do with their larger "explosion size"?

Explosion size is the missile equivalent hit dispersion. The math works the same way but instead of say a 60% chance to hit missiles only do 60% damage.

raykor wrote:

Hmm.  The huge range advantage still sounds like a significant advantage but I guess I'll see.

It is significant, 1v1 a mech should win against an assault bot. But that doesn't make them obsolete. Assaults are way more cost effective. 2 assaults can kill a mech for significantly less resources.

7 (edited by Gobla 2010-12-26 16:28:24)

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

Medium Long Range missiles reach 6,66 DPS without any skills. Small Missiles reach 5,38 DPS.
Medium Missiles have an explosion size of 10. Small missiles one of 4. Assault bots have a surface size of 4.

Small missiles deal 5,38 DPS against assault bots. Medium Long Range missiles deal 2,66 DPS against assault bots.

Add in extensions and the difference will become a bit less due to the Seismics skill but other then that for every extension that boosts medium missiles there's an equivalent that boosts small missiles.

Medium Short Range missiles deal 10 DPS, becoming 4 DPS against assaults.

As such an assault bolt will do about 130% to 200% of the DPS of a mech when fighting assault bots.

*Insert really awesome sig here*

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

Thanks for the explanations.

9 (edited by Kaito Kurusaki 2010-12-27 14:29:38)

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

Don't forget that assualt have five weaponslots with bonuses. Mechs have only four.

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

Kaito Kurusaki wrote:

Don't forget that assualt have five weaponslots with bonuses. Mechs have only four.

Dont forget mechs have usually at least 2 times more Armor and way more weapon range.

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

the advantage of the mechs is also the head- and engineering slot count + high sensor strength.

they give you much more freedom about what you can fit. (except for the ictus which is pretty gimped because of its 5 torso slots)

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

about that percentage - how does it works when target size is more than your explosion size? f.e. medium missiles have 10 explosion size. you decreased it, says, to 9. heavy mech have size 10. by the simple maths your damage should be a little more than 100% in that way. does it really works?

Have a productive day, Runner

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

Line wrote:

about that percentage - how does it works when target size is more than your explosion size? f.e. medium missiles have 10 explosion size. you decreased it, says, to 9. heavy mech have size 10. by the simple maths your damage should be a little more than 100% in that way. does it really works?

I believe not. Would be quite silly really. It would imply that small missiles with their explosion size of below 4 would do 250%+ damage against heavy mechs. Which would make medium short range missiles completely useless as there's no way they can match that.

*Insert really awesome sig here*

Re: Are assaults going to be useless in PvP against mechs?

its capped at 100%

you get a 10% damage bonus if your explosion/dispersion is less or equal 1/2 targets hitsize.