26 (edited by Tund Bungler 2014-05-29 20:04:56)

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

If you go through with this idea as initially proposed I have one additional request: allow us to sell our accounts as well. I want to dump all 10 of mine before you kill the game and they become valueless.

People do NOT want games where you can trade in and out of real life money. If you don't pull that section out of your dev blog you are going to significantly hurt your reputation in the steam community and it will significantly hurt your sales should the game make it to 'actual release'. Gamers have voted with their wallet time and time again and always voted against RMT.

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

I can't overstate how serious of an issue this is.

Take a look at other games that have gone down this route and the reputations they have achieved.

You have every corner of the game coming together in a single voice telling you this is a BAD idea. Anytime the entire game can come together in a troll-free zone its worthy of serious attention and consideration.

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

Tund brings up a good point, if you absolutely want to bring this in please include an option for people to sell accounts.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

And just so im clear, I dont mean Id be selling my accounts as a "Screw you" passive aggressive move.

With money being able to be converted to assets back and forth without restraint you've now considerably increased the opportunity cost of playing this game. Instead of a sunk cost in my subs/assets, now Im sitting on money that could be used to pay rent, feed me, or go to any other bills. I'd be crazy to not want to get maximum value for my assets, and that maximum value will be the day you make this change.

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

How do you pay rent with your Steam wallet?

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Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

Same way loads of folks do.

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

hmmm
wonder if this would be good news for miners and harvesters
lots of need for base materials to create items to sell on steam
and steam would certainly be the preferred market over the ingame AH - although some NIC would have to be generated too
doom and gloom for the games economy or...........

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

Food for thought Zoom.

If blizzard, one of the greediest companies out there, had to go back on their version of this in Diablo3, because it caused a huge backlash and kinda wrecked the "play the game to acquire stuff" motivation that is the foundation of playing a game...

What do you think this will do for a tiny game that just got its footing?

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Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

Like I said, if you want to do a steam marketplace, and take the 10% cut do it with deco cash shop items.

I mean youll have to do dev work, maybe make bot skins (different looking skins), paints kits with unique paint schemes, perhaps perp credits and boosters (make boosters an item) and put those up for the steam market.

The second you put stuff I can get in game on the market is the second you wipe out a big portion of play motivation.

Why bother making a mining fleet when I can pay $10 from my steam wallet to buy the ore....for example.

Also its incredibly bad press to have in game items for sale on an AH....diablo 3 is all you need to know about this, and that was the same concept...

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Pillar of the Community
Ruler of Recruit Chat
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35

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

DEV Zoom wrote:

I'm not saying we don't listen to reason, but how exactly is this different compared to ICE?

In the past you bought ICE for real money, then you sold it on the market for hundreds of millions of NIC, then you bought robots etc. from other players.

With this system you would do the same thing, only without the ICE and NIC intermediaries.

ICE drastically inflated prices in game. It wasn't good for the game IMO it only made people buy ice to sell for NIC to become overnight Billionaires. How is this good>? 


Syndic wrote:

I could buy ICE and either sell it for NIC or apply it to my own subscription. I couldn't turn around and sell the ICE or the stuff I buy with NIC for more $$$.
Putting player-manufactured items on the Steam market creates NOTHING for the game or put real money into your pocket, you merely create a legitimate reason for people to farm NIC/produce XZY and sell it for $$$. In completely destroys the in-game economy (why would I sell for NIC when I can sell for $$$?) and demolishes any incentive to PVP (hey I could have sold this for $$$ and bought Tropico 5).
Put this in and you legitimize gold-farmers, destroy the in-game economy, and generally screw everything up for everyone who wants to have fun in this game.
What puts real money into your pocket is doing what everyone and their mother has been telling you for 4 years on these forums;
- add cosmetic stuff,
- more features,
- more PVE,
- more content,
- more bots,
- more stuff that gives a critical mass of people reasons to spend 10$ for the convenience of having boosters for their accounts and buy more and more and more stuff

^^ Agreed ^^

Devs DO NOT allow people to buy in game manufactured items with $$$ or Steam cash, its not good for the game economy.

We need cosmetic only items bought through these channels.

I will gladly pay $$$ for NEW CONTENT in the game!

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

36 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2014-05-30 00:00:32)

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

DEV Zoom wrote:
Norrdec wrote:

If you dont want to listen to us, listen to all the people who broke your server a few years back - the eve refuges afraid of the RMT and monocles in eve.

Now THAT was a cash shop.

Zoom as some one who seen the EVE influx & was in NEX when 100s of people were still angrily talking about what CCP had done both in corp chat & TS. Very few people are going to see a difference between the type of cash shops.

Personally I see it as no difference to what ICE would be used to do. BUT ICE vs Cash shop where you can buy trade  of buy in game items that are not cosmetic will be viewed in an entirely different light.

Its all about peoples perception.

If some one looks at the cash shop & sees its offers only cosmetic items & a ep boost. That wont bother most.

But if they go to the cash shop & see cosmetic, booster & the ability to buy ingame items with RL cash even tho those items are player made. alot of people will now see perpetuum as pay to win. Simple as that.



For that above reason & that lone i think what you DEVs are thinking is a bad idea in that a lot of gamers hate pay to win & will avoid P2W games.

make the Booster a in game trade-able item like ICE.

Syndic wrote:

Tund brings up a good point, if you absolutely want to bring this in please include an option for people to sell accounts.

+1 i would like to cash out to.
^^ not trolling... what you DEVs are proposing will kill your game

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

Someone just mentioned this in TS....

Steam wallet bounty contracts

Pay a fee, watch someone die, enjoy.

theres your 10% take, leave in game items out (other than deco cash shop crap)

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Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

I like the idea of trading a few billion nic worth of items to some hacker to go into some one elses account and delete everything, and then the hacker can steal the persons info and then turn around and destory their credit ratting. You know paying for reallife bountys with little pixels, sounds great to me.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

39 (edited by Curblugeon 2014-05-30 11:29:07)

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

Ville wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

I'm not saying we don't listen to reason, but how exactly is this different compared to ICE?

In the past you bought ICE for real money, then you sold it on the market for hundreds of millions of NIC, then you bought robots etc. from other players.

With this system you would do the same thing, only without the ICE and NIC intermediaries.

I Think this is a wonderful Idea. We should also allow for a CASH OUT paypal account.  I wouldn't mine playing a few extra hours for some hard earned $ in my paypal account.

This is the great Idea ever!  Way to go Devs!

pay to play is a great idea! how many Chinese farmers sit at their computers grinding gold out? And the bots! well now there is an idea! buy a couple perp accounts and bot the daylights out of it and cash out without even playing.

win win. You are really on to something Ville! and if things get shaky with paypal we can use steam to launder the money and sell the games we buy!

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

Curblugeon wrote:
Ville wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

I'm not saying we don't listen to reason, but how exactly is this different compared to ICE?

In the past you bought ICE for real money, then you sold it on the market for hundreds of millions of NIC, then you bought robots etc. from other players.

With this system you would do the same thing, only without the ICE and NIC intermediaries.

I Think this is a wonderful Idea. We should also allow for a CASH OUT paypal account.  I wouldn't mine playing a few extra hours for some hard earned $ in my paypal account.

This is the great Idea ever!  Way to go Devs!

pay to play is a great idea! how many Chinese farmers sit at their computers grinding gold out? And the bots! well now there is an idea! buy a couple perp accounts and bot the daylights out of it and cash out without even playing.

win win. You are really on to something Ville! and if things get shaky with paypal we can use steam to launder the money and sell the games we buy!

RightO!  At this rate I could make literally tens of dollars overnight!!  Tens of Dollars!!  I could buy lunch!  Or get enough Gas in my car to go buy lunch!  Awesome Idea.  Stay at it Devs Thinking like this will take you places!

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Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

ICE already was a bad form of RMT, but this new Steam Wallet idea is just outrageous. fuuu

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

If this happens I will prob also just cash out my toons also. No need to play a game that is self cannibalizing as there are other f2p, b2p games that are equally worthy of my free time. hmm

Instead of trying to create new sources of revenue, just improve those that are already existing. Give us a ****ing KICKSTARTER already.

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

I dont know  about you guys, but I will make ***, sell it, and buy some hot Steam games!!

Planetary annihilation anyone?

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

Rage Blackout wrote:

I dont know  about you guys, but I will make ***, sell it, and buy some hot Steam games!!

Planetary annihilation anyone?

I bought it in the last sale, it's definitely still EA but also fairly reminiscent of the original which is in my top 3 favorite RTS's of all time.  It requires an Uber account to play though which is not listed anywhere as a requirement and amounts to 3rd party DRM.  You literally cannot even play single player without signing in.  I reported the game to Valve for fraud for this reason because it's deliberately misleading to say "requires online to play" but not list anything as 3rd party DRM.

I'd wait for the Summer Sale if I were you.  I paid $30 and should probably have waited.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

Planetary Annihilation is one of my all time favorite clicky games.

DEV Zoom - "If you mean the NPC aggro, that's been like that for months already."

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

Rage Blackout wrote:

Planetary Annihilation is one of my all time favorite clicky games.

I bought it a little while ago. I need to play it again.


NO RMT.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

Was thinking about other ways to use this system. Money Laundering, a person could use this system to clean massive amount of money. A drug dealer, wanting to clean his money, buys nic related items in game from certain people, he then turns around and sells these items back to them thru system. He now has clean money in his account that he can do anything he wants with. I would like to add that this is illegal in just about every country in the world. So if it happens, and when cought, you Devs, being the ones that put the system in place, were even warned that it might happen, did it anyway, will lose everything, go to jail, and be some one elses glory hole.

[16:03:43] <Mara Gossep> syndic.....and get your *** spy out of our corp

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

RedKGB wrote:

Was thinking about other ways to use this system. Money Laundering, a person could use this system to clean massive amount of money. A drug dealer, wanting to clean his money, buys nic related items in game from certain people, he then turns around and sells these items back to them thru system. He now has clean money in his account that he can do anything he wants with. I would like to add that this is illegal in just about every country in the world. So if it happens, and when cought, you Devs, being the ones that put the system in place, were even warned that it might happen, did it anyway, will lose everything, go to jail, and be some one elses glory hole.

Maybe thats their plan for making money with perp. Seems like itd be a whole lot easier just to add a proper cash shop tbh.

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

DEV Zoom wrote:

Ok maybe we should have been more exact with the wording there.

This is NOT a cash shop.

You would only be able to trade existing items, that have been created in the game. You wouldn't be able to buy a robot for money that's just created out of thin air. This is merely the extension of the ingame economy to the Steam community market.

I understand the difference however I think the issue the community has with this extension is that it generates a Pay to Win option. It sounds like someone who does absolutely no effort can buy bots and equipment, from other players, to play with using real money.

To be honest I've never ever heard of a game that you have to buy and offers an official pay 2 win option on top of that.

Re: RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT - RMT ALERT

well, some buy their equip without ingame effort via cash shop,
and others just get their equip handed from a corp that still has stockpiles of sever thousands of those items that do not rott away on their own - and even if they would come to an end, with multiple maxed out alts mining for a few hours afk and you got another batch running.

also, ontop of that,
i was said several times by the pro's -> its not the equip that makes you win.

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